Englander 32- NC

[Cliff2448]

I have a few seasons now under my belt with the 32-NC and I can say I'm not a fan. In my situation the stove seems very finicky. Its vented thru a interior chimney with a 6" flex liner total height is around 25ft. No matter what wood species, moisture content it always seems to cruise for about a hour with the air fully closed and then rapidly off gas and turn into a inferno. We battled this for awhile and believed it was a technique problem or operator error. I know this chimney has a strong draft so i did install a pipe damper.

The damper helps get those hot burns back under control. Usually we run with the air closed first and then dial back the damper until it is about half closed and all is good... for awhile with stove temps around 575-600 where it seems very comfortable. After about a hour we always almost seem to go nuclear when the rear of the stoves secondaries start turning into the gates of hell and stove top temps climb to 700 plus. When this occurs we close the flu damper 3/4 of the way closed and things calm down and will continue to burn at a normal pace.

With these conditions we will have a mountain of coals after 5 hrs. I don't know what the problem is I've tried everything I can think of increasing split size, Loading E,W using the flue damper first then dialing back the air no matter what we end up with a fire that seems uncontrollable after awhile. Now this being said I do have a 1800I on the other end of the house burning the same wood etc and this stove is as predictable as it comes 3 adjustments and it cruises just fine no rapid off gas etc so Im sure operator error is not all to blame. Any help would be much appreciated maybe I'm missing something

 

[begreen]

Keep turning down the air aggressively, as long as it doesn't snuff out the flame. Try to keep the flames lazy. The air should be close to fully closed by the time the stovetop is 500º. If that doesn't work, try blocking off the boost air intakes. I think they are visible as holes behind the front legs. Use a magnet or metal tape.

 

[EbS-P]

are you measuring flue gas temps? You should. I love my Auber AT 200. It’s the only way I can keep my easy breathing insert under control. I have a damper.

I open the damper on a cold start and close it 60 degrees once 1/3 of the kindling is lit. I then close it all the way once I see good flames or hit 400 degrees. Now if my flue gas temps drop or don’t increase within 2 minutes I open back up to 60 %.

Once I hit 500 I start closing down the air in the stove shooting for 650-700. The numbers only matter to my setup. I can do everything perfectly and miss a turn down by 90 seconds and it’s off to the races.

The key is to start a load and keep just enough air so that that it keeps heating but it’s a really fine line.

Now way could manage this without flue gas temps.

 

[Cliff2448]

Shame on me I'm not monitoring flue temps. The stove sits back in my fireplace and the liner comes straight down to the adapter and then to the stove. It would be hard for me to get a visible prob in there while running a damper. This is a photo of my burn 1 hr in stove temp already 550 and the stove is half loaded since it is finally a warmer 40 degree day. It looks hot and rambunctious to me with the air fully closed and damper open especially being half loaded. Oh, door and glass gaskets are good. Proper high density door gasket is being used. Door passes the dollar bill test.

 

[Cliff2448]

I'm trying to figure out if this stove is just a easy breather or if it's honestly my setup and I will have this problem no matter what wood burner I install.

 

[begreen]

Shame on me I'm not monitoring flue temps. The stove sits back in my fireplace and the liner comes straight down to the adapter and then to the stove. It would be hard for me to get a visible prob in there while running a damper. This is a photo of my burn 1 hr in stove temp already 550 and the stove is half loaded since it is finally a warmer 40 degree day. It looks hot and rambunctious to me with the air fully closed and damper open especially being half loaded. Oh, door and glass gaskets are good. Proper high density door gasket is being used. Door passes the dollar bill test.

That doesn't look too rambunctious, but it's a single, still shot. Does closing off the pipe damper tame it down more?

It's not a particularly easy breather, but a 24" liner is going to draw fairly hard. Try closing off the boost air ports with magnets or metal tape. That is non-destructive and for many makes an appreciable change.

 

[EbS-P]

Shame on me I'm not monitoring flue temps. The stove sits back in my fireplace and the liner comes straight down to the adapter and then to the stove. It would be hard for me to get a visible prob in there while running a damper. This is a photo of my burn 1 hr in stove temp already 550 and the stove is half loaded since it is finally a warmer 40 degree day. It looks hot and rambunctious to me with the air fully closed and damper open especially being half loaded. Oh, door and glass gaskets are good. Proper high density door gasket is being used. Door passes the dollar bill test.

Mine is an insert. All the way back in. My adapter had a small hole just big enough for the probe of the AT200

 

[Cliff2448]

That doesn't look too rambunctious, but it's a single, still shot. Does closing off the pipe damper tame it down more?

It's not a particularly easy breather, but a 24" liner is going to draw fairly hard. Try closing off the boost air ports with magnets or metal tape. That is non-destructive and for many makes an appreciable change.

I will try this in the am. Mine doesn't have legs it has the pedestal I believe the boost port is in the rear next to the primary air I can't get back there till the am.when she cools off I think I have some metal tape left from my drolet liner instal that I can try. And yes if I close down the damper it will calm things down. I'd really like to be able to control it with out closing the damper down. This stove makes more creosote compared to my drolet with having to damper the flue down

 

[NickW]

My NC30 at the old house had a similar flue height but we had a 4' horizontal run. I did use a digital probe and typically ran flue temperature about 700 degrees and stt 550-600. My best process was to make sure the load was well charred, close the door, then the air control in stages to 1/4-1/8 open, then the damper in stages to about 1/4 open.

Being a secondary combustion stove, a pile of coals after 5 hours isn't surprising. I typically only had secondary combustion for 4-5 hours with quality wood. If more heat is required during the coaling stage, push the coals to the sides and load up in the middle. Use lower quality wood if available or smaller splits. The secondary combustion helps burn the coals on the sides down.

 

[begreen]

I will try this in the am. Mine doesn't have legs it has the pedestal I believe the boost port is in the rear next to the primary air I can't get back there till the am.when she cools off I think I have some metal tape left from my drolet liner instal that I can try. And yes if I close down the damper it will calm things down. I'd really like to be able to control it with out closing the damper down. This stove makes more creosote compared to my drolet with having to damper the flue down

While looking at the underside of the firebox, look in the front corners.

 

[Cliff2448]

Double checked nothing in the front corners. Here is a photo of the rear I believe the boost air comes from the rear via the small square inlet

 

[Cliff2448]

My NC30 at the old house had a similar flue height but we had a 4' horizontal run. I did use a digital probe and typically ran flue temperature about 700 degrees and stt 550-600. My best process was to make sure the load was well charred, close the door, then the air control in stages to 1/4-1/8 open, then the damper in stages to about 1/4 open.

Being a secondary combustion stove, a pile of coals after 5 hours isn't surprising. I typically only had secondary combustion for 4-5 hours with quality wood. If more heat is required during the coaling stage, push the coals to the sides and load up in the middle. Use lower quality wood if available or smaller splits. The secondary combustion helps burn the coals on the sides down.

Running the damper 1/4 open how often were you cleaning the flue? I have cathedral ceilings in my house so only the last 4 ft of chimney are not in the interior of the house I try to clean mine every month or so and I do get some every time out of this stove granted this liner is un insulated being on the interior of the home looking back I probably should have bought the insulated one but young and dumb and beer money was more important haha. Now my drolet 1800 exterior chimney little shorter insulated liner and I clean the flue on the same schedule and I get barley anything out of it. Leads me to believe the damper is the culprit trying to hold the stove back to much with it and not letting enough heat up

 

[Cliff2448]

I blocked off about 70% of the rear secondary air. Stove does seem to be more behaved half a firebox of some very dry and on the smaller size maple splits stove temp 550 and climbing but does not seem to be like a jet secondary flames are more lazy with a blue hint. Thinking about going up to 85% blocked after this burn to see what it does.

 

[NickW]

I did the same thing (only about 25% blocked) for a little while at the old house and it dirtied up the glass worse. Air and damper settings will change with the weather. I typically only swept the flue once mid season besides the end of season one.

I don't think the NC32 has the doghouse boost air that the NC30 had that was fed by the holes behind the front legs.

Stoves are designed to get air at certain proportion through the inlet holes for proper combustion. Some people have had luck with it, but partially blocking one changes that proportion. Closing the damper more keeps the proper proportion of air in the stove but limits the total going up the flue. A damper typically has a hole in it so some air/smoke can always get through. Single wall pipe will always cool more than double wall so it will get more build up.

 

[Cliff2448]

So in a situation like this what is advised to block some of the un restricted air or to use the key damper. The problem with the key damper is I can turn it 3/4 of the way closed and it's good thru the hotest parts of the fire. If I leave it there during the coaling stage it seems to more or less smolder the back of the box. I know each will have its causes and effects.

 

[NickW]

Yep, that's what a tall flue will do regardless of how you restrict the air. Getting the whole load well charred before closing the door can help mitigate the big takeoff early in the load a bit. I personally would suggest using the damper rather than restricting air intake. Open the damper more and maybe the air at the coaling stage if you are around.

It was a challenge at the old house with 24' of flue and the 4' horizontal run. Pulled like crazy when it was hot but the coaling stage lost draft badly as the flue cooled. I got it figured out pretty well and left instructions for the new owners for air and damper settings depending on load size, quality of wood, outside temperature and wind. If I was around I often just opened it up some for the coaling stage. The battle was always air open enough to have coals instead of charcoal at the reload yet keep it under control early, and the settings were different depending on the above mentioned variables.

 

[Cliff2448]

How you explained that is exactly what we go thru. Rather frustrating.

 

[NickW]

I journaled my process (well charred versus closing the door as soon as secondaries were firing), load types (large, medium, wood types) and weather conditions (temperature, wind speed & direction), results (coals versus charcoal), and length of burn until repeatable patterns emerged. Charring large loads of hardwood well made a big difference as did monitoring flue temperature in the double wall with the digital probe.

 

[EbS-P]

Double checked nothing in the front corners. Here is a photo of the rear I believe the boost air comes from the rear via the small square inlet

That is probably the unregulated secondary air intake.

Running the damper 1/4 open how often were you cleaning the flue? I have cathedral ceilings in my house so only the last 4 ft of chimney are not in the interior of the house I try to clean mine every month or so and I do get some every time out of this stove granted this liner is un insulated being on the interior of the home looking back I probably should have bought the insulated one but young and dumb and beer money was more important haha. Now my drolet 1800 exterior chimney little shorter insulated liner and I clean the flue on the same schedule and I get barely anything out of it. Leads me to believe the damper is the culprit trying to hold the stove back to much with it and not letting enough heat up

My guess is it’s the lack of insulation.

I tried blocking off the secondary intake on my 1800i. didn’t like it. I do have screws in but dog house air holes in the fire box. If back is not burning well you need more primary air.

How you load and light makes some difference I try not to get everything ignited all at once. I top down on one side or rake colas to the side for N/S load or to a front corner for an EW reload. Hot reloads are just not possible. I will just feed two splits at a time rather than have a whole load run away on me.

Double check the stove adapter liner connection for any gaps. And get moister reading in a fresh split face at room temp.

 

[begreen]

Double checked nothing in the front corners. Here is a photo of the rear I believe the boost air comes from the rear via the small square inlet

I would expect that to be the secondary air intake. Hopefully someone with the 30-NC will chime in with the boost air locations. If not, I believe there was a thread way back that had some shots of them. Can you post a shot like this of the front underside?

 

[NickW]

The NC30 had 4 secondary burn tubes and the doghouse. The NC32 (I believe) has 5 burn tubes and no doghouse. If there's no doghouse there wouldn't be holes behind the legs to feed air to it. Yes, the rectangle cutout in the bottom back feeds the secondary tubes.

 

[begreen]

Thanks Nick. I haven't seen a 32-NC yet, but verified 5 burn tubes via the manual. So no boost air at all? That's unusual but possible I guess. I'd like to see a photo of the front underside including the air control.

 

[NickW]

Thanks Nick. I haven't seen a 32-NC yet, but verified 5 burn tubes via the manual. So no boost air at all? That's unusual but possible I guess. I'd like to see a photo of the front underside including the air control.

Yeah, I remember when it came out a conversation here about no more "tunnel of love" being needed for the boost air from a doghouse because it didn't have one. My Osburn Stratford 2 has a doghouse so I still use a tunnel of love here at the new place.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for jogging my memory. I recalled one of the early threads on this stove which mentions the lack of doghouse.

@Cliff2448, read through this thread. Your issue is the opposite of what is occuring in this thread. It's a long one, but may have a clue on a way to reduce airflow by carefully bending the airwash diverter slightly more towards the glass.

L

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• lebrunmn
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[Cliff2448]

Here are some photos of the air control and the under side front of the stove. No dog house inside the stove and yes 5 burn tubes