Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

Mrpelletburner Posted By Mrpelletburner, Feb 9, 2018 at 9:01 AM

  1. Mojappa

    Mojappa
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    It’s consumed about 6 of the 476 posts in this thread, I’m pretty sure the thread will survive.
     
  2. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu
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    Ummm....yeah, you're new here aren't you...threads have been locked up for less
     
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  3. Mojappa

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    Right on, I'll just laugh to myself then. Back to Puff the Magic Smoke Dragon
     
  4. Medic21

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    I fixed it. Sorry guys, I guess I have a very different sense of humor.
     
  5. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu
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    Now that's funny!
     
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  6. JRHAWK9

    JRHAWK9
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    nah, not in the least. The Octo Cooler furnace still sucks as much as it did before any of the non-PC comments were made. ;lol

    ecto-cooler-slimer-hi-c.jpg
     
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  7. maple1

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    It's not really that I myself find it personally offensive or something like that - it's just that it's the kind of thing that gets threads shut down on here. And this one has been one of the more epic ones on here - that I would hope would yet see some sort of resolution for the OP and maybe other users.
     
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  8. STIHLY DAN

    STIHLY DAN
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    My 2 cents. I believe there is a combination of things going on here. 1st, i am willing to bet your wood IS on the wet side. 2nd, from the pics of the flue, there is no way there is enough draft unless chimney is hot. lastly design of unit has flaws. I think medic1 may be having better luck because his wood is probably drier and he probably has better draft. So he still has design issues that are not except-able, but not as glaring as yours. Wet wood needs more air, even with good draft. Low draft with the door open will allow more air in the chamber to burn. Your puff backs are probably coming from your wood making a lot of wet smoke and when things get hot or you get a wind gust, or a high ambient pressure, it ignites making a boom. My unit is the easiest to use ever, but if I have a cold unit, cold chimney, and not freezing weather, then load wet wood, I will have issues until the unit and chimney get hot. It is what it is "thermo dynamics" again, just my 2 cents.
     
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  9. Mrpelletburner

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    These 2 photos are from Monday night. 16” splits, placed to the back of the stove, filled to the top. Draft blower slider was set to the factory opening.

    This wood had the most moisture content (~30%) of any of the wood I had burned all year as I had just brought it in. I had zero issues with back puffs for the 2 days of burning. Basically reloaded, closed he door and didn’t check on the fire until hours after. Temperatures were in the high 20’s to high 30’s.

    IMG_1039.JPG

    IMG_1040.JPG
     
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  10. STIHLY DAN

    STIHLY DAN
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    30% because you just brought it in? It should be much less than that before its brought in. So wet wood is a yes. Now the question is why did it work well the last 2 days with wet wood and poor draft. Lucky?
     
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  11. Mrpelletburner

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    Assuming the higher moisture content because I was grabbing wood that was not under a tarp and it had been rain/snow the day before.

    Not sure regarding not back puffing... Started cold, I had filled the box and started from the top vs starting then filling the stove.

    In order for the fire to take (cold stove), I had to leave both doors open for roughly a 1/2hr for the fire to take and not be chocked off (with dry wood). When I refilled the stove, I had to use wood that I had just brought in as I am no longer storing wood in the basement.

    People can point to wet wood till the cows come home, however when I had the least success is when I was burning wood that had been in my wood shed for 2 ½ years, if that was not seasoned, I am not sure what is seasoned. If I bring in a load and let it sit for a couple of days, the wood reaches a ambient temperature and has a moisture content of ~23%.
     
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  12. STIHLY DAN

    STIHLY DAN
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    23% is still not dry wood. Also i woud like to be clear, I did say what your videos showed was what wet wood looked like. Was not accusing you of wet wood. But 30%, now 23% I am saying that 1/3 of your issue IS the wood. Also, are you burning the same type of wood? Some wood dries in a year, others like oak takes 2 or more to dry. Maybe thats why sometimes it doesn't happen. Although you did say ash made it happen and thats the fastest drier. Maybe its the opposite? The wetter the wood the better the burn. I know pine burns hot and fast but needs more air. Try burning 2X4's, or bio bricks, see what happens. Where in mass are you? If its not to far I could come take a look. I know a little bit about heating appliances, and wood heat.
     
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  13. STIHLY DAN

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    P.s That glowing red is BAD. Was the combustion air fan on? Could the combustion fan air sensor just be off?
     
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  14. maple1

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    Could it be that drier wood off gasses moreso too much in the primary for the secondary to handle? It sure looked like the secondary was under supplied with air at various points in this thread. That imbalance coming from design shortfall.

    (Or the primary is over supplied)
     
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  15. STIHLY DAN

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    That is a possibility. I am thinking the puff back has something to do with the combustion fan shutting down creating an imbalance, or not starting at the right time. Most certainly from alot of off gas, then an introduction of air.
     
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  16. Medic21

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    100% correct the primary is over supplied in this furnace. It is impossible for it to burn from the top down as wood stoves should. It burns frontbto back. If you turn the blower on and open the slide 95% of the air blows right at the spots the glow red. I tend to load the right side to the top and keep the left side down a split or two to keep that from happening.

    Wood to dry has been a problem for me. I have some that was left in the barn at mom and dads I split as a teenager. It puffed bad when I loaded the stove full with it.
     
  17. JRHAWK9

    JRHAWK9
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    I know of a furnace actually designed to burn like this and it does it quite well. :cool:
     
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  18. DoubleB

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    Also, IIRC, your wood shed has 3 closed sides, which is great to store dry wood but not great for drying wet wood. So I wouldn't assume it's dry due to elapsed time.
     
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  19. brenndatomu

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    Kuuma works exactly this way...Caddy, Tundra, Max Caddy, HeatPro all burn front to back too...although they have a little more top down action mixed in with that than the Kuumas do...
    Bingo!!

    I kinda hafta agree with both sides here...this unit needs DRY wood to burn properly just like any other stove, but the CRAPPY secondary air design can't deal with the heavy off-gassing of dry wood
     
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  20. woodey

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    Hi laynes, off topic here but what the heck- I put my gourd rack up today and was reminded of a post I came across a few years ago as I was researching wood furnaces. I did a search for purple martins today and found a post from you a few years back. Have you had any luck getting birds at your site? I had a small colony of 12 nesting pairs here until a May snow storm 14- 15 years ago wiped them out. I can attract some in here every year but have not been able to get a pair to stay and nest. If you are still trying with no success I may be able to give you a few tips to entice them to your site. Whether or not they stay who knows but worth a try. Let me know.
     
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  21. Mrpelletburner

    Mrpelletburner
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    The inducer blower was not running. Also, the stove is a very basic stove, zero controls or sensors.

    When this stove does take off, it heats the house quick. I find it takes anywhere from 1 ½ to 2 ¼ hours after reloading for the stove to take off. Once it does, the temperature spikes for about 15 mins, then rolls back to 550 - 650 for several hours.
     
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  22. STIHLY DAN

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    What turns the combustion air on? T-stat? 1 1/2 to 2 1/4 hours before take off again sounds like wet wood. Takes that much time to boil the water off.
     
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  23. Mrpelletburner

    Mrpelletburner
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    The stove is shipped with a wall mounted thermostat, which is mounted next to the main floor thermostat.

    I believe wet wood will have a sizzling sound when burning, where you can see the water boiling at the ends of the splits. I can assure you that this has not been the case. Perhaps the wood can still have a high moisture content and not see the moisture boil at the split ends?

    So the stove is really basic, primary and secondary air inlet is shared and a 50 cfm inducer blower with a slide flap. The 3/8” opening is the only air that is allowed, even when the inducer blower is running.

    I believe the concept of the stove is a fairly simple design. As the stove temperature increases, so does the flue temperature which pulls a strong draft, air into the inducer slide opening. The air flow SHOULD either pull the smoke and exit out of the chimney or if hot enough, burn the secondary gases.

    Experience tells me that the stove is going to be at its coolest point either when starting or reloading, therefore not the strongest draft.

    IMO the lack of primary air, restricted by the slider, allows for smoke to build up to much and chokes the fire. This is why I believe it takes so long for the fire to recover without a really hot bed of ambers to help recover the fire. Further, when reloading, the splits placed on the hot ambers, seem to cool the hot ambers which also chokes out the fire.

    Yes, splits with a high moisture content will amplify the choking affect.

    Now I believe from a prior posting, @Medic21 opens the inducer slider when starting and/or reloading to help during the recovery time. In my case, I don’t open the slider to increase the air flow, leaving it at 3/8” opened. Which is perhaps why we have had different results, we also burn different wood.

    Fire Chief has 2 other indoor models, which both a have auto draft inlets and the primary/secondary air inlets are NOT shared.

    I would in a heartbeat trade in this stove for the FC-1500 as I believe that stove would be more forgiving. However the initial person I spoke to at HY-C suggested that the FC-1000 would satisfy my application. At the time I didn’t fully understand the differences between the 3 models and now that I do, I would of gone the other route.

    If you look at all the other EPA stoves on the market, I believe (please correct me if I am incorrect) they all have some sort of primary or secondary air adjustment. This stove doesn’t have any adjustments, which means your setup has to be perfect in order to operate as advertised.

    I am no way suggesting this stove is junk, just for myself, I have experienced to many issues and would like a refund or some form of compensation.

    I understand that most are tire of this thread as it has become stale pages ago. However I do appreciate the feedback, suggestions, and comments from everyone! I have learned a ton in a short period of time thanks to the folks on this form.
     
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  24. blades

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    Yes on High moisture and not see boiling on ends.
     
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  25. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu
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    Yes.
    The lack of separate secondary air allows too much primary fire, and not enough oxygen left for the secondary burn to occur.
    Yep.
    All have primary, most have no adjustment on the secondary air...wide open all the time. The are a scant few that adjust the primary and secondary together with a linkage arrangement (separate air passages, common adjustment lever) but these are wood stoves, not furnaces.
    I AM! At least until they separate the primary and secondary air passages, this model will be a thorn in their sides, and is not safe to sell.
    And you should! You have bent over backwards for these people! You should be DEMANDING a refund! I have only had to threaten a company with a lawyer once, but it worked (rental car agency tried to rip me off) I would have lost money getting a lawyer most likely, but that wasn't the point...the point was you overcharged me and you will NOT get away with it! Didn't matter if it was the court system, or social media, they were gonna regret pulling this lil stunt on me...fortunately they made things right before it escalated even more. But I still won't use them again!
    If it were me, I'd start by making them aware I want my money refunded, and if they refuse, you will be getting a lawyer, which will then be asking for his fee, plus compensation for your time and trouble too. If nothing happens then, I think I'd post a link to this thread on every social media site and wood burning forum that you can find, also make the retailer aware of the problems too, post a review on their site with a link here. Then I would start calling various people in the insurance industry...anybody that may be interested in an unsafe product. Underwriters Laboratory's? (it is UL listed, yes?) EPA...how the heck did this thing ever pass the 2017 emissions test anyways?! I guarantee it won't pass the 2020 test! At least it will only be around for 3 years anyways.
    Go through this thread and use that to help gather up all your facts about how things have transpired here...be well prepared for any questions that someone may have for you...and details just add to your credibility too. All your videos are a big plus!
    I'd do this now before it warms up and you move on to other things for the summer, time is not on your side here. And traffic on this site will begin to be pretty thin very soon, if not already. You will not get nearly as much help/advice over the summer.
    My 2...err, 10 cents (legal advice costs more than wood stove advice ;)) on the matter.
    Good luck, we're all pullin for ya!
     
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