First year with wood insert, not really helping . . . please help!

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brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,258
NE Ohio
It's at 25% open right now and seem to be going somewhat strong, not as with it all the way open, a lot less flames. So when I need to put in more wood, do I open the air control back up or just leave it as is and just throw more wood in there?
Modern stoves are meant to be batch burners...so you let the current load burn down to coals, rake them to the front, reload, open air back up, let the fire establish well, then start cutting the air back...rinse and repeat as needed...
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,263
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes, the blower air exit is just under the top and we always have it going full high. It was on high when taking the picture temps.
OK, that explains the low top temp. On some stoves one can angle in the laser to point at the actual stove top. If you can do this, the temp should be taken with the blower off for a few minutes.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,258
NE Ohio
OK, that explains the low top temp. On some stoves one can angle in the laser to point at the actual stove top. If you can do this, the temp should be taken with the blower off for a few minutes.
He should be able to kinda sorta get a reading of the stove top in that 1.5" to 2" gap above where the air control lever is...
 
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JMBoriss

New Member
Feb 10, 2019
42
Columbus, Indiana
He should be able to kinda sorta get a reading of the stove top in that 1.5" to 2" gap above where the air control lever is...
Very cool actually learning how all this works. Much appreciate the help and knowledge given in my own thread, as opposed to digging through endless forum searches. Thank you all.

With the air control 25% open with the blower off for 5 mins i got the laser temp in between at various locations and it was at most 410 degrees but really hovered around 380-390.

With the air control all the way open with the blower off for 5 mins I was getting 550-580 on the bottom metal in the the air gap (stove top).
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,258
NE Ohio
Very cool actually learning how all this works. Much appreciate the help and knowledge given in my own thread, as opposed to digging through endless forum searches. Thank you all.

With the air control 25% open with the blower off for 5 mins i got the laser temp in between at various locations and it was at most 410 degrees but really hovered around 380-390.

With the air control all the way open with the blower off for 5 mins I was getting 550-580 on the bottom metal in the the air gap (stove top).
Here's some more FYI for using that IR gun...
https://blog.thermoworks.com/thermometer/how-to-use-an-infrared-thermometer/
 
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Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,153
Michigan
I think you are fighting a losing battle for a home your size. According to the owners manual for your stove low burn only puts out 9600 btu's per factory tests. That's like trying to heat your house with a space heater. High burn is only 58,000 btu's and still not enough for your home. You need an insert with a much larger firebox. Burning on high output is going to take a lot more wood, than a larger stove on low burn. Right now my PE Summit is loaded with Hickory on low burn and the stove top temps are between 480-550 at different points on the stove top.
 

Hogwildz

Minister of Fire
After the load get fired up good with air wide open, you want to turn the air down as low as possible without causing the load to smoulder. A drop rather than rise in stove temp is the indicator here, not so much flames. You will get good secondaries at the beginning, but even when they die down or slow, the stove will steady or continue to raise in temp. Leaving wide open will get the firebox hot, but it will also let a boatload of heat up and out the stack. Not good.
 
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Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,153
Michigan
One question I have that I don't think has been asked, are you loading your stove full when starting a fresh load, or just throwing in a few pieces? My stove with my splits likes to be filled up, with as few air gaps as possible. Also have you tried comparing loading N/S (logs put in end first) vs E/W (logs put in with the ends facing the side of the stove)?
 

JMBoriss

New Member
Feb 10, 2019
42
Columbus, Indiana
One question I have that I don't think has been asked, are you loading your stove full when starting a fresh load, or just throwing in a few pieces? My stove with my splits likes to be filled up, with as few air gaps as possible. Also have you tried comparing loading N/S (logs put in end first) vs E/W (logs put in with the ends facing the side of the stove)?
When I start a fresh load, I usually have enough for 1 large or 2 small logs along with my kindling, and if there's no air under the logs, it won't ignite. The firebox is tiny, 1.5. and it's rectangle shaped so only loading long ways. In order to load the other way my logs would have to be less than 12 inches, I try to cut them between 16 and 18. Yeah, time to get a bigger insert.

I did however, before bed around 11pm last night, move the air control slowing down to 25% open and while it does not appear to put out as much heat, I had a nice bed of hot red coals when I got up and 6:30am this morning, put a 16" piece of black walnut in and it relit instantly, so that's a win. I was usually getting like 3 hour burn times and waking up to a completely cold stove, no red hot coals, only cold ash, having to completely relight from scratch every morning. That was getting taxing.

I have a Nest thermostat and the furnace didn't kick on from 1pm to midnight. With the aircontrol down 75% (25% open) I'm anxious to see what it did all night, past midnight. My nest readings are a day behind, so I'll see the info from today 12am to current tomorrow. Hopefully it didn't run all night!!!
 
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Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,491
SEPA
When I start a fresh load, I usually have enough for 1 large or 2 small logs along with my kindling, and if there's no air under the logs, it won't ignite. The firebox is tiny, 1.5. and it's rectangle shaped so only loading long ways. In order to load the other way my logs would have to be less than 12 inches, I try to cut them between 16 and 18. Yeah, time to get a bigger insert.

I did however, before bed around 11pm last night, move the air control slowing down to 25% open and while it does not appear to put out as much heat, I had a nice bed of hot red coals when I got up and 6:30am this morning, put a 16" piece of black walnut in and it relit instantly, so that's a win. I was usually getting like 3 hour burn times and waking up to a completely cold stove, no red hot coals, only cold ash, having to completely relight from scratch every morning. That was getting taxing.

I have a Nest thermostat and the furnace didn't kick on from 1pm to midnight. With the aircontrol down 75% (25% open) I'm anxious to see what it did all night, past midnight. My nest readings are a day behind, so I'll see the info from today 12am to current tomorrow. Hopefully it didn't run all night!!!
Being able to load longer pieces n-s is really a game changer. My SBI stove will take standard 16" pieces n-s, and it really takes much more wood than e-w loads at 20".

That said, 15.5" is better for the Drolet, n-s. Just want a little margin of error with a hot stove. What's half an inch among friends, anyway.
 

RandyBoBandy

Minister of Fire
Feb 25, 2015
896
Whitmore lake
Okay, so help me out here please. When I take the surround off and point the reader in the middle of the top of the insert, It's about 200 degrees. When I point it at the stainless steele 6" liner coming out the back of the insert it's about 220 degrees. When I point it at the glass, I'm getting 450-500. The insert has a front air control and we always keep that wide open except when we go to bed. Is my stove running too cool?
Just read the whole thread and the only “ bk enthusiast” that came in was you hog! Twice you brought up the BK! You had more fun with the Woodstock gang, or at least the ones remaining since the exodus.

I too call bs on the maximum output numbers put out by companies and/or the epa. I think the biggest trick is that they publish instantaneous “peak” output which is actually useless in this application. Firebox size, assuming reasonable efficiency, is far more useful.
What did I miss with Woodstock? What exodus?
 

JMBoriss

New Member
Feb 10, 2019
42
Columbus, Indiana
What do you think about the Regency I3000L? There's one by me for $1500 new someone is selling. 2.9 cu ft firebox.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
4,258
NE Ohio
What do you think about the Regency I3000L? There's one by me for $1500 new someone is selling. 2.9 cu ft firebox.
Regency is a decent brand...I don't know much about that particular model personally...
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
945
Iowa
What do you think about the Regency I3000L? There's one by me for $1500 new someone is selling. 2.9 cu ft firebox.
@bholler will likely be able to advise on that model.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,263
South Puget Sound, WA
What do you think about the Regency I3000L? There's one by me for $1500 new someone is selling. 2.9 cu ft firebox.
That's a good price if new. It's a decent big heater, conventional tube design. It works with a 6" liner. This is an E/W loader, the firebox is shallow and wide (22" x 9"?). The insert projects out onto the hearth so you will probably have to add an extension. The benefit of this projection is that it heats better during power outages. Measure the fireplace and be sure it will fit and check clearances requirements too.
 

HomeinPA

Minister of Fire
Jan 4, 2018
510
Central PA
What do you think about the Regency I3000L? There's one by me for $1500 new someone is selling. 2.9 cu ft firebox.
From the face of the fireplace the ash lip in front of the stove is basically 10.5" on the hearth. You need another 16" in front of that. I'd look on the data plate which is under the blower in front and get the serial number to verify the manufacture date but 1500 bucks is a steal if it's new. Retail on those is over 3k plus installation.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,145
central pa
Is it a 3000 or a 3100?
 

weatherguy

Minister of Fire
Feb 20, 2009
5,388
Central Mass
If your woods not cut to maximize the size of the firebox you wont be able to take advantage if the bigger box. For that price I'd but it anyway, just cut your wood to fit in the future.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,263
South Puget Sound, WA
There maybe a bit more room in front of the firebrick. 9" is just by the firebrick pattern. That is a good price, not much more than stoves 1/3d smaller and the stove by past reports heats even larger spaces quite well. IIRC about the only issue that has come up has been with the deflector. This got replaced with a better part a few years back. @bholler would know more. He cleans several of them.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,145
central pa
There maybe a bit more room in front of the firebrick. 9" is just by the firebrick pattern. That is a good price, not much more than stoves 1/3d smaller and the stove by past reports heats even larger spaces quite well. IIRC about the only issue that has come up has been with the deflector. This got replaced with a better part a few years back. @bholler would know more. He cleans several of them.
The 3100 is much more than 9" deep. It is about 18" deep. I cut to about 16 to load no. If it is actually an old 3000 I don't remember that one for sure but it is about the same size I believe
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
79,263
South Puget Sound, WA
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. The i3100 is only about 16" deep behind the surround and that includes the convection jacket. Here's the firebrick pattern. It shows only one brick deep. I have only seen one of these on the store floor and that was years ago. Is there a large area in front of the firebrick?

Screen Shot 2019-02-19 at 5.20.13 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-02-19 at 5.21.46 PM.png
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,145
central pa
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. The i3100 is only about 16" deep behind the surround and that includes the convection jacket. Here's the firebrick pattern. It shows only one brick deep. I have only seen one of these on the store floor and that was years ago. Is there a large area in front of the firebrick?

View attachment 241125 View attachment 241126
There is a pretty wide metal section in the back on the floor behind those brick that the secondary air comes through to be preheated. And a bit in the front as well
 
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