Heartbroken over a poor investment.

[jatoxico]

Few installers seem to want to do a block off plate, just how it is. Insulation though is mandatory IMO. My installer wanted to use the pink stuff and only on top (by the cap). I got them to do top and bottom although they did not do the bottom to my satisfaction and I ended up doing it again.

If this is supplemental heat insulate and make sure you're getting the most out of it through proper operation. There is a definite learning curve to get good heat. If you're convinced you need more, upgrade. I have the 550 and I'm happy but I needed a flush mount unit. The Kennebec 450 is very capable and extends (adjustably) onto the hearth. Therefore heats a little better for it's size and depends less on the fans which is especially useful during power outages. Do a search on that unit here and see what you think. From what I have read there is not a big drop off in performance despite the manufacturers quoted spec's.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Few installers seem to want to do a block off plate, just how it is. Insulation though is mandatory IMO. My installer wanted to use the pink stuff and only on top (by the cap). I got them to do top and bottom although they did not do the bottom to my satisfaction and I ended up doing it again.

If this is supplemental heat insulate and make sure you're getting the most out of it through proper operation. There is a definite learning curve to get good heat. If you're convinced you need more, upgrade. I have the 550 and I'm happy but I needed a flush mount unit. The Kennebec 450 is very capable and extends (adjustably) onto the hearth. Therefore heats a little better for it's size and depends less on the fans which is especially useful during power outages. Do a search on that unit here and see what you think. From what I have read there is not a big drop off in performance despite the manufacturers quoted spec's.

I think they don't do it because it is not necessary....IMO....also I asked about an insulated liner, they said 99% of all installs are not insulated......

 

[jatoxico]

I think they don't do it because it is not necessary....IMO....also I asked about an insulated liner, they said 99% of all installs are not insulated......

Many people have seen significant improvement in output after insulating the damper and block off plate (myself included). May not be necessary for a safe install but for max heat the surround alone will not cut it.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Idk.... My unit doesn't give off heat in the back, on top, or sides of it, the heat goes out the flue and out the front.......so how would a block off plate benefit that? Believe me, when I heard many people preaching the block off plate, I investigated, I was shooting my ir gun at every angle for many hours....maybe these new units are built differently?

 

[jatoxico]

Idk.... My unit doesn't give off heat in the back, on top, or sides of it, the heat goes out the flue and out the front.......so how would a block off plate benefit that? Believe me, when I heard many people preaching the block off plate, I investigated, I was shooting my ir gun at every angle for many hours....maybe these new units are built differently?

The heat shielding is effective at keeping heat like you said but can always be better. I was losing heat from the flue collar and the exposed pipe. The block off keeps that heat from going up into the smoke chamber. The heat from the liner itself as it passed though the damper etc (before getting into the clay tile) was going into the empty smoke chamber and above the damper area. That heat was being lost to the brick. I was able to measure a 50 F difference on the exterior brick at the level of the smoke chamber. Example on a 30 degree day the brick was 80 F or more. So no doubt the liner was not performing as well as it could.

With the smoke chamber stuffed with Roxul and a plate there is no cold convection currents, my surround gets much hotter and the exterior brick is now only about 5 degree above ambient. I pulled the insert off the wall 1/2" to let the hot air trapped by the plate out from behind the surround. Seems to work.

It may not be night and day for you but just add the Roxul and recheck your temps I'd bet they would be somewhat higher. Even if you just improve the heat retention of the liner so you get less creosote it would be worth it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Net net if the dealer doesn't have other stoves that 550 will be a sea change in heating if it will fit. Hell of a fireplace insert.

 

[BrotherBart]

Idk.... My unit doesn't give off heat in the back, on top, or sides of it, the heat goes out the flue and out the front.......so how would a block off plate benefit that? Believe me, when I heard many people preaching the block off plate, I investigated, I was shooting my ir gun at every angle for many hours....maybe these new units are built differently?

You did this without the surround on the insert while it was burning?

 

[Dix]

Net net if the dealer doesn't have other stoves that 550 will be a sea change in heating if it will fit. Hell of a fireplace insert.

Wendy, make sure a new unit will fit in the FP before committing to it. You'll be pretty ticked off if it doesn't.

And get cracking on the firewood

 

[BrotherBart]

Two weeks after I installed the 30-NC in the fireplace a guy six miles from me listed a C550 insert new on the pallet on craigslist for $775. If I hadn't already installed the bad boy I would have been all over that insert.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

You did this without the surround on the insert while it was burning?

Yes, I took off the surround for a full week, I had ir gun in hand often, the only place the insert was losing heat was up the flue, I had cobwebs in the fireplace, if I remember correctly, the inside brick was 50 degrees, not soaking up heat from the insert.... You could keep your hand everywhere except for on the flue...... I would close the air and the flue would cool down immediately....

 

[jatoxico]

Two weeks after I installed the 30-NC in the fireplace a guy six miles from me listed a C550 insert new on the pallet on craigslist for $775. If I hadn't already installed the bad boy I would have been all over that insert.

Not the longest burn time around but seems to be pretty bulletproof.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yes, I took off the surround for a full week, I had ir gun in hand often, the only place the insert was losing heat was up the flue, I had cobwebs in the fireplace, if I remember correctly, the inside brick was 50 degrees, not soaking up heat from the insert.... You could keep your hand everywhere except for on the flue...... I would close the air and the flue would cool down immediately....

Just for clarification. "up the flue" was inside or outside the liner?

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Just for clarification. "up the flue" was inside our outside the liner?

The thick heavy metal collar connected to the insert and the stainless steel liner. Outside using the ir gun, that metal can't be any hotter inside then on the outside when your burning hot and hard

 

[BrotherBart]

So heat was going up the chimney instead of being retained to go into the living space. Exactly what a block off plate is for. Has nothing to do with pipe temps. It has to do with heat going up into the chimney around the outside of the liner instead of being retained to heat your house.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

If a stove is 700 degrees, your telling me the flue shouldn't be 350 degrees or so?
You shouldn't see heatwaves at the top of the chimney?

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

Heat is going up my 6 inch stainless steel liner, the more I close the stove, the lower the heat goes up

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

My room gets 72-76 degrees depending how I run the stove, I have 11 single pane windows, no insulation, plaster walls, and a whipping wind at times, been 10-20 degrees lately and it heats my space when I run it, I'm not feeling like I'm losing heat

 

[BrotherBart]

You are missing the point. Nothing to do with inside the pipe. You have heat coming off of the surface of the stove going up the chimney outside of the liner instead of being retained inside the fireplace to heat the house. If you can't get that through your head, just keep on keeping on and be happy.

Hopefully the OP gets the point.

Done here.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

The only heat loss that I have is inside the flue that's why I can not comprehend what a blockoff plate would accomplish, it's not hot behind my surround inside the fireplace, if I had a block off plate, it would still be hot inside my 6 inch ss liner... Sweet dreams

 

[begreen]

One insert installation doesn't equal another. Your insert appears to be unique. It is the first one I have heard of that radiates no heat from its convection jacket.

 

[BrotherBart]

It is a very small flush mounted wood stove behind a fireplace surround. The only way out for the small amount of heat it can produce is through the blowers. And none of Jotuls inserts are designed for convection.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Your insert is too small to live up to your expectations and undersized for your climate and square footage no matter how well seasoned your wood is. Take the Superior offer and upsize - you'll be much happier.

This. My parents have wrestled with an undersized Jotul insert (550)and are finally taking the replacement plunge.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

DDDDD ---- I think I will go larger. ( Darn it... I wish I didn't have to spend the money ) I really like the look of the Jotul - and will probably go from the 350 to the 550. What the heck. What do you ( or anyone ) recommend? Should I go with the larger Jotul `for $800 more - or go with the same upgrade in size with a Pacific Energy for an additional $300????? This is an investment. I want a good stove. I'll worry about the payment later...

PE. More bang for buck.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Is the summits firebox bigger than the 550?

Way bigger if you're talking about useable space. The 550 is rated at only 65,000 BTUs vs 99,000 for the Summit

 

[Charles1981]

Get the biggest stove you can imo.

There are rare instances where too big of a stove can blow you out of house and home, but I think given what you have experienced thus far with a small stove you want to go as big as you can.

Regardless I do feel you may have issues with heat even upgrading to a bigger stove. I think an insulated liner, blockoff, and insulation around the surround will help substantially with a bigger stove, but If your wood is wet you may still have lackluster heat production until you get ahead....There are still many tales of woe on here with owners of wet wood and big honking stoves.

But still get the biggest stove you can shove in there....It also means you won't have to reload every 3-4 hours.