Hello - and Dollar Bill test on F3cb

[FionaD]

Firstly, I want to say hello and a great big thank you to everyone here. This is my first post as a registered forum user, but I have been lurking here for the past three months and getting all kinds of wisdom and advice from the posts here. So many thanks for all of that.

With the help of what I've read here, I finally decided to buy a Jotul F3cb. It was installed earlier this week and is now run in - no longer smelly! - and throwing out a perfect amount of heat, enough to warm my entire wee Scottish cottage on a cold night!

But here's my question that I'm hoping you can help me with... I do find myself wondering if it's burning the logs just a little bit too quickly. Admittedly, it's been windy here the last three days, so that may have played a part. I also need to be building up the ash in the grate to slow things down a bit and that will take time of course... However, I did the dollar bill test today and that's really what my question is about… I tried it first on the door to the ash pan… No problem there; I couldn't pull it out. I also tried it on the main door and was unable to pull it out on either side, all good. But on the very top of the main door I was able to pull it out with only a slight tug. Do you think this is worth mentioning to the installers when they come back soon anyway, to do some finishing off to my stove surround? Or am I being over anxious here?

It was great to get a chance to say hello and to thank you guys. I'm sure I discover that I have one or two more questions over the next few weeks.

I should add that I just happened to have a US dollar bill in my possession, so it really was a dollar bill test that I did… Not a British pound test!

 

[Jags]

Even a "slight tug" suggests that there is resistance. That is really all that is needed from a gasket - that is, contact with the surface. Tightening that up probably wouldn't help a bit.

And welcome to the forum.

ETA - that little F3 is a tiny stove. I wouldn't expect much more than a 3-4 hour moderate/low burn from it. If you were rocking its socks off, you could probably burn through the load in 1-2 hours.

 

[begreen]

Make sure the little start-up air port is closed on the door.

 

[FionaD]

Thanks so much Jags, that's reassuring to hear. And thanks also BeGreen, aye, It seems I only need the start up draft for about the first 30 secs in the gales we've having the last few days!

I guess the F3 is a small stove by American standard, but it sure heats the old cottage perfectly. I take on board what you say about burn times though. Hopefully once the wind die back and I have built up a bed of ash things will slow down a bit - as long as I see a difference between the logs the stove consumes compared to the open fire I had before.

I think my dollar bill concern was probably born out of anxiety with the installers, who have left me wondering about a few issues related to the instalment. I guess time will reveal if my worries are grounded or if it's just 'stove newbie first night nerves'!

Thanks again... Hope I managed to upload a pic ok!

 

[Jags]

I think my dollar bill concern was probably born out of anxiety with the installers, who have left me wondering about a few issues related to the instalment.

Please elaborate, BeGreen and many others here are spot on with their assessments of bad or dangerous installs. You don't want to be put into a compromised install.

 

[FionaD]

Please elaborate, BeGreen and many others here are spot on with their assessments of bad or dangerous installs. You don't want to be put into a compromised install.

Well, it's been partially down to the administrative disorganisation of the company - that kind of set the tone... Saying they'd arrive at 9am and not turning up till 3pm, etc. But that aside, with regard to the install, they took two days, day one was prepping the hearth and doing most of the cementing that was needed, so that it was dry enough for the stove to go in on day two. That seemed fair enough, but on day two they had to do more cementing to close up the old fireplace opening, above the rear flue, where it goes into the wall. So more cementing and some bricks in there too, then within an hour they lit the stove. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was not good to expose drying cement to any sort of heat...

Anyway, the third day the cement that had been added on day two was very dry, dusty.. I touched it with my finger and it fell apart, creating a hole into the old hearth space behind.

They put a flue into the old stone chimney... and lined between it and the inside of the old chimney with something that they described as 'lots of little balls, poured into the chimney from a sack or two", but there is no register plate... They said that's only necessary when the flue goes out the top of the stove,rather than out the back and into a wall... Is that correct? If it is I'm confused about the liner (balls) they have put in; what is holding them in place? And why aren't they filling the empty hearth space that has been exposed by the hole in the cement?

Part from that, just things like putting the mantel back on squint (till I said, "no way!") and some broken stonework that I will need to fix somehow...

Anyway, I could go on, but this post is long enough for you to have to read ... Does any of what I've said sound suspect to you?

 

[FionaD]

Wee update... I sent pics of the crumbling, falling away cement to the installers and asked for someone who is qualified to come round and fix it.. Guy came within hours and was very apologetic, says he will fix first thing on Monday morning. I was right - and of course you will all know this - they should not have lit the stove as soon as it was installed and the top cemented section was still wet. I actually questioned this on the day, they said, 'no problem'. Amazing !

When the grown up comes back on Monday, I will of course ask him why the company sent two beardless boys to do a job they were clearly unsure about. I will also express my very understandable concern that there may be other botched aspects to the install I simply don't know about... Yet.

I'll make sure I have all my questions in line in time for Monday morning...

 

[Highbeam]

When the grown up comes back on Monday, I will of course ask him why the company sent two beardless boys to do a job they were clearly unsure about.

Fantastic! Great to hear your way of saying things.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Wee update... I sent pics of the crumbling, falling away cement to the installers and asked for someone who is qualified to come round and fix it.. Guy came within hours and was very apologetic, says he will fix first thing on Monday morning. I was right - and of course you will all know this - they should not have lit the stove as soon as it was installed and the top cemented section was still wet. I actually questioned this on the day, they said, 'no problem'. Amazing !

When the grown up comes back on Monday, I will of course ask him why the company sent two beardless boys to do a job they were clearly unsure about. I will also express my very understandable concern that there may be other botched aspects to the install I simply don't know about... Yet.

I'll make sure I have all my questions in line in time for Monday morning...

Just curiously, did the company you bought the stove from also do the install, or did you hire a separate group?
I'm not sure how your laws may differ from ours, but surely the installer company would be liable if they did it wrong and major or minor disaster ensued, so the Grownup will surely be concerned about that. Ask him to check the whole thing over and especially to explain to your satisfaction about those weird "balls" in the chimney. Seems to me a responsible company would not send two inexperienced youngsters out to do this without "adult" supervision.

I had a similar experience once with a plumbing problem. The company sent, just as you described, two beardless boys, who glanced at the malfunctioning old-fashioned "appliance," declared it couldn't be fixed and would have to be replaced. When I asked politely if either of them had any experience with such vintage set-ups, they actually laughed derisively in my face and stormed out of the house! That afternoon, my knowledgeable handyman fixed the problem with a couple of big paper clips and a rubber band....

 

[begreen]

I suspect the wierd white balls are perlite. If that's what they used, it's normal chimney insulation. They didn't put in a blockoff plate and let the perlite fill the fireplace cavity instead. I can't find any fault with this, but may be missing something. The cement work just sounds like a rush job. Patience is not a common virtue in youth. It will be good to get the bosses eyes on this.

 

[FionaD]

Gyrfalcon... Yes the company from which I bought the stove did the installation and yes, I'm sure the grownup is keen to see me happy. They are a local firm, family run. News travels fast around here and I think that may be my saving grace.

Begreen - I'll ask the beard about the balls (I'd better stay careful with my language here!!) I had thought like you that there would be no harm if the fire cavity was filled with the insulation.. But it isn't - it's empty... I can tell, because that's were the cement is crumbling and falling into.. So I'm wondering where said 'balls' went! I can hardly wait to find out.

I think the poor impatient youths are in real trouble, bless them. I get the sense - and I hope I'm right, in a way - that I may have just experienced the whole outfit on a very bad week. The grownup has been off sick most of the week and so were a few others.. There is a flu bug going round just now. I can see their point, if they had cancelled all this week's installs, probably till the new year, cos the experienced workers are ill, I bet the customers wouldn't be too happy, by the same token, we're not happy with the apprentice-piece installs we got either.. A case of - 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' for the firm....

Main thing is I am starting to feel reassured and optimistic..

....And l'm enjoying earning so much from this forum! I'm still trying to get those beautiful secondary burns though.. But there's no harm in taking things easy whilst I get to know the stove, it's my first stove, but I'm loving learning all it's ways. It truly is a living thing.

Thanks so much !

 

[gyrfalcon]

Gyrfalcon... Yes the company from which I bought the stove did the installation and yes, I'm sure the grownup is keen to see me happy. They are a local firm, family run. News travels fast around here and I think that may be my saving grace

Sounds good. I think you'll be OK once the adult comes by and susses things out.

I moved to a very small town in the country about 7 years ago after living in metro suburbs, and that "news traveling fast" is a huge difference. I can rely on workmen around here because of it. In the denser suburbs and cities, it's all anonymous and there are too many innocent and unknowing customers to fleece.

Where are you in Scotland? I was last there 10 years ago, wandering around up in the Highlands, and the stark beauty just knocked me out. Really got along well with the people, too.

 

[begreen]

The real fault is with the company. Sending two kids out for an installation does not equal one adult. That said, understand that this is their busy time and it could be the kids are pretty good at simple installations. (your installation is not). Give the company a chance to make it right. And here's wishing you a happy hearth holiday soon.

 

[Jags]

There must be some type of block off if the perlite didn't fill behind the stove. Might be another question to ask the bearded one. Does this have a block off. It will be good to know

 

[FionaD]

The real fault is with the company. Sending two kids out for an installation does not equal one adult. That said, understand that this is their busy time and it could be the kids are pretty good at simple installations. (your installation is not). Give the company a chance to make it right. And here's wishing you a happy hearth holiday soon.

Absolutely.. My gut tells me it will be fine. The management and the guy who came out to do the initial survey (and should have been at the installation) felt ok to me.

Where are you in Scotland? I was last there 10 years ago, wandering around up in the Highlands, and the stark beauty just knocked me out. Really got along well with the people, too.

I'm near the edge of the Trossachs - mountains about one hour away from Loch Lomond. I know VT a little too.. Had a real shock the first time I was there in winter! I'll never say Scotland is cold again... I really am toasty warm in front of my wee F3 tonight, but suspect I would need something bigger down your way...

BeGreen - I know a few of the Puget sound islands too.. More like home there.. Scotland gone large, you might say!

I'll drop by on Monday. Just to say how things went with the stove fix. Keep warm till then.

 

[FionaD]

There must be some type of block off if the perlite didn't fill behind the stove. Might be another question to ask the bearded one. Does this have a block off. It will be good to know

Jags - I almost missed your post... I will ask about the perlite and block off. The boys did say that the chimney was quite narrow at the throat and on the whole didn't take much insulation, so maybe it just jammed at that point. I'll see what he says. I must say id kind of like to have the hearth space filled too, just feels more complete somehow... There's also an outside door where the old fireplace ash box used to get pulled out to be emptied. Feels like all of that should be closed up, sealed and filled to me, if only for a little more insulation generally. I'm also sure the wind will whistle in through that way in really stormy weather.

 

[Jags]

Filling the void around the stove is not typical but I don't know that it is wrong. Sounds like another q to ask

 

[gyrfalcon]

I'm near the edge of the Trossachs - mountains about one hour away from Loch Lomond. I know VT a little too.. Had a real shock the first time I was there in winter! I'll never say Scotland is cold again... I really am toasty warm in front of my wee F3 tonight, but suspect I would need something bigger down your way.

I had to look this up, and oh, it looks like a gorgeous area! I didn't get that far south, just wandered around on single-lane back roads from Inverness mostly west to the coast, past what seemed like a thousand small lochs in entirely empty country. I saw no houses until I got to the coast.

Yes, Vermont can get pretty cold, but I'm on the western border of the Champlain Valley, and we don't get as cold as the mountains, thanks to the lake. I actually survived with a stove about the size of yours for my first 5 years burning, but I just this year upgraded to one that puts out much more heat. We do get a few nights every year of double-digit below zero, and a few stretches of single digit above daytime, but mostly it's teens and 20s, with stretches of 20s and 30s. So only occasionally what a Northeasterner would call cold. Some of the regulars here at Hearth.com have much colder conditions.

By the way, your install may be problematic, but the stove against that stone looks just wonderful and very cozy.

 

[begreen]

Maybe you can peek through that outside cleanout and get a looksee at how and what they did. Most important will be using the right materials and 3 screws per joint.

 

[FionaD]

Maybe you can peek through that outside cleanout and get a looksee at how and what they did. Most important will be using the right materials and 3 screws per joint.

Oh I will... For sure... Three screws per joint? What joints?

Gyrfalcon... Aye it's beautiful here, best all worlds with regard to Scottish style landscapes. We have the mountains, lots of lochs and also plenty of trees, which isn't always the case further north. Also we're only an hour's drive from the west coast, so we can get to the ocean quick enough... And it always makes americans laugh when I say; of course, we're also only an hour's drive from the East coast!

Aye, I'm pleased with the finished look of the hearth. That's our local red sandstone; the cottage is a mid 1700s shepherd's cottage and is built of that stone. I've been here for 20 years now and I love it. Love the cottage and love the whole area. Only in the past two years have I been able to afford to make significant (but sympathetic to style) improvements on the cottage. Going as green as possible has been important to me, but it's not always so easy in an old stone building. Government 'green grants' are great over here just now though and have helped a lot.. My jotul is the cherry on top of that cake and it fits in well with the rest of the place.

 

[begreen]

Each pipe joint should have 3 screws, 120 degrees apart, securing the pipe. Same at the stove's flue connection.

 

[FionaD]

Ah, I see... Thanks for that. I'll check. I only have the flue connection and one 45 degree joint right after that.. Then it's the main flue, so it will be easy to check.

 

[FionaD]

All good today.. A guy who really seemed to know his stuff came round and recemented the hearth,really taking his time to make it as good as it can be.. He answered all of my questions about the stove, the insulation, etc... and I feel much more at ease now. He admitted he should have come to do some parts of the install himself and was apologetic.

Of course I can't use the stove tonight - the new cement is drying! But I am already looking forward to lighting up again tomorrow.

I can already feel a few questions brewing about how to handle the F3 cb.. Especially from those folk here who seem to have succeeded in getting overnight burns.. I'm nowhere near managing that; my stove is actually cold to the touch in the mornings! I'll check out the riches that are already posted around this forum first though.

Thanks again for all your help. Have a great Christmas

 

[gyrfalcon]

All good today.. A guy who really seemed to know his stuff came round and recemented the hearth,really taking his time to make it as good as it can be.. He answered all of my questions about the stove, the insulation, etc... and I feel much more at ease now. He admitted he should have come to do some parts of the install himself and was apologetic.

Of course I can't use the stove tonight - the new cement is drying! But I am already looking forward to lighting up again tomorrow.

I can already feel a few questions brewing about how to handle the F3 cb.. Especially from those folk here who seem to have succeeded in getting overnight burns.. I'm nowhere near managing that; my stove is actually cold to the touch in the mornings! I'll check out the riches that are already posted around this forum first though.

Thanks again for all your help. Have a great Christmas

Very good news indeed.

Merry Christmas!