How to evaluate used wood stoves

[ZenFire]

I'm new to this forum, I hope this question hasn't been asked a hundred times - I did a quick search and didn't see it.

I've been renting a home with a Woodstock Soapstone Stove and loving it - I'm building my own house now and looking at stoves. My budget is tight so I've been looking at used stoves - but I'm having trouble knowing just how to evaluate a used stove. Here are some of the questions my wife and I keep wondering with no clear idea how to get answers:
- Is some rust an issue on a wood stove? Is it dangerous or does it just mean that stove's life is limited?
- Is it better to buy a slightly older, used wood stove from a higher quality company (like Hearthstone or Woodstock)? Or should I buy a new (or nearly new) stove from a lesser (but still good) company like Jotul?
- In general, what other things should I be looking for when reviewing a used stove? I feel nervous that I don't have the expertise to evaluate the safety/longevity of a potentially dangerous item.

- Lastly, I really like the soapstone stove we have now but I do worry that I'm placing too much importance on getting a soapstone stove. I'm aware of the general pros and cons of them, but do you think they get too much attention? Are they really worth the premium price? or should we just get a newer/high quality stove that isn't soapstone?

Some info: my house will be a brand new 1.5 story, 1300 sq ft, very well insulated home, with in-floor radiant heating in a concrete slab as the other form of heat - so we will not rely 100% on this stove, but we would use it almost daily for most winter months.
Our preferred budget is below $1300 but efficiency is important to me so I don't want to go to the cheapest.

I know this is a broad post, I hope someone out there has some advice for a relative novice.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. A good quality used stove can be a nice find, but they get harder to locate as the heating season kicks in and the prices go up. Your main issues may be avoiding overheating in a very well insulated home. A smaller Woodstock (Keystone, Paladian or Fireview) or Blaze King Ashford would be a good fit.

FWIW, Jotul is an excellent stove company in no way lesser than Hearthstone or Woodstock, but they mostly sell traditional cast iron stoves in the states. These can be too radiant for some small home installations. If you want the softer heat like a soapstone stove in cast iron consider the cast iron jacketed Jotul F45, or other cast iron clad steel stoves like the Pacific Energy T4, Napoleon 1600c, Quadrafire Explorer I or II, etc..

 

[Simonkenton]

Yes, I didn't know that Jotul was a "lesser company." I wouldn't have shelled out $2,500 for a stove from an inferior company.

 

[alamance]

Jotul is a great stove and with proper sizing can make living quarters very enjoyable. Oversized stoves are the biggest complaint I hear from my customers who have bought used.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'd look for signs of abuse. Discolored pieces, warped or cracked panels, etc. Also look for things that don't look right. Brand new firebricks or new paint on a used stove.

 

[ZenFire]

I didn't mean to insult about Jotul, I really just don't know what I'm talking. Please feel free to just correct anything I said that was flat out wrong - such as, Jotul actually makes excellent stoves. Sorry!

Thanks for the other insights. Does a soapstone's "softer" heat make it better for smaller spaces or would a smaller stove work just as well?

M

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm new to this forum, I hope this question hasn't been asked a hundred times - I did a quick search and didn't see it. Welcome to hearth.com!

I've been renting a home with a Woodstock Soapstone Stove and loving it - I'm building my own house now and looking at stoves. My budget is tight so I've been looking at used stoves - but I'm having trouble knowing just how to evaluate a used stove. Here are some of the questions my wife and I keep wondering with no clear idea how to get answers:

- Is some rust an issue on a wood stove? Is it dangerous or does it just mean that stove's life is limited? Not necessarily . . . especially if it is just some surface rust. However, if the whole thing is a rusty mess it may be indicative of someone who hasn't really taken care of the stove. It is more important to look for bowed or misfit metal (possible signs of warping from over firing the stove) and (if painted) the look of the paint (a faded area on one section of the stove cold indicate over-firing.)

- Is it better to buy a slightly older, used wood stove from a higher quality company (like Hearthstone or Woodstock)? Or should I buy a new (or nearly new) stove from a lesser (but still good) company like Jotul? HehHeh . . . first time I think anyone has ever called Jotul a "lesser" company since Jotuls are pretty highly regarded here . . . but to answer your question . . . it's really about you, your likes, your budget and comfort level in evaluating a used stove vs. new. For me personally, when I bought my stove back in 2008 I didn't feel comfortable in knowing what to look for in a stove to make sure it had not been abused so I ended up buying new since I had the budget . . . and I ended up with one of those "lesser" stoves . . . a Jotul Oslo which has provided 90-95% of my heating needs since 2008. Now if I had to buy a stove I think I have seen enough pictures and could make a better judgment of whether the used stove in question may have been over-fired. Incidentally, Jotuls can be pretty pricey . . . if you truly want a new stove at a used stove price, the Englander stoves are highly recommended here . . . they may not be as pretty looking as cast iron and soapstone stoves, but users love these stoves and love the prices even more.

- In general, what other things should I be looking for when reviewing a used stove? I feel nervous that I don't have the expertise to evaluate the safety/longevity of a potentially dangerous item. See above response . . . truthfully . . . if you don't have a trusted friend who is competent in looking over a used stove for signs of abuse, I might recommend buying new for the simple peace of mind. Depending on your budget, size requirements and stove type it may be more expensive than buying a used stove, but again . . . you have the warranty and peace of mind.

- Lastly, I really like the soapstone stove we have now but I do worry that I'm placing too much importance on getting a soapstone stove. I'm aware of the general pros and cons of them, but do you think they get too much attention? Are they really worth the premium price? or should we just get a newer/high quality stove that isn't soapstone? Only you can really answer this question. Some folks absolutely love the look and gentle heat from their soapstone stoves . . . other folks may think they're over-rated. One thing to bear in mind as well is the Woodstock you were using most likely is quite different from the other well known soapstone stove manufacturer -- Hearthstone -- in that Woodstock tends to use catalytic combustors or hybrid cat/secondary burning (depending on the model) which some users really like due to the ability to get longer burn times.

Some info: my house will be a brand new 1.5 story, 1300 sq ft, very well insulated home, with in-floor radiant heating in a concrete slab as the other form of heat - so we will not rely 100% on this stove, but we would use it almost daily for most winter months.
Our preferred budget is below $1300 but efficiency is important to me so I don't want to go to the cheapest. While I would recommend a cat-based stove due to the insulation and planned daily use, the truth is it could be tough to go new with a cat stove -- or many new secondary burning stoves for that matter -- due to the budget . . . especially if this amount is for the stove, chimney and hearth (two other aspects some folks forget to budget -- especially the chimney which can be as expensive as the stove.) The other reality is I expect if you size the stove right a secondary burner could also serve you well . . . you may need to experiment a bit at first though since you're used to using the Woodstock.

I know this is a broad post, I hope someone out there has some advice for a relative novice. We were all new-bies at one time . . . folks here are quite friendly and willing to offer real world advice. Again . . . welcome.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I didn't mean to insult about Jotul, I really just don't know what I'm talking. Please feel free to just correct anything I said that was flat out wrong - such as, Jotul actually makes excellent stoves. Sorry!

Thanks for the other insights. Does a soapstone's "softer" heat make it better for smaller spaces or would a smaller stove work just as well?

M

Don't sweat the jotul stuff. Its not a big deal.

A small stove can put out very intense radiant heat if its designed to. Mass slows down the transfer of heat from the fire to the room. Soapstone stoves have a lot more mass to heat up than a small plate steel stove. So they will heat up slower, and stay warm longer. Whether its better depends on how fast you want the heat from your fire.

 

[begreen]

I didn't mean to insult about Jotul, I really just don't know what I'm talking. Please feel free to just correct anything I said that was flat out wrong - such as, Jotul actually makes excellent stoves. Sorry!

Thanks for the other insights. Does a soapstone's "softer" heat make it better for smaller spaces or would a smaller stove work just as well?

A small stove is going to have a very limited burn time. In a small space a jacketed stove will generally have closer clearances which can make installation easier in smaller rooms.

 

[mellow]

Call Woodstock and see if they have any refurbed Fireviews in stock, you might have to go on a waiting list.

 

[Woody Stover]

A small stove is going to have a very limited burn time. In a small space a jacketed stove will generally have closer clearances which can make installation easier in smaller rooms.

My little Keystone gets an overnight burn easily but, yes, a small non-catalytic stove may have a harder time making it through the night. That may not be a big issue with a new, well-insulated house, or if he doesn't mind the backup heat coming on towards morning.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the Keystone is often a good solution for the smaller tight house.

 

[ZenFire]

Thanks for your help - I got on Woodstock's refurbished list but it sounds like it is long and they don't get them often. I found one on ebay that feels like the winner, but I figured I'd get a second opinion if anyone can weigh in.

Here is the link: (broken link removed to http://www.ebay.com/itm/222260268716)

The only issues I see in this picture are: the door gasket will need to be replaced, but thats probably a quick and easy fix (tell me if I'm wrong about that) and the door glass - I think that looks like regular soot that maybe they tried to clean off. Does anyone see any major issues?

The price is a little bit too good to be true, but I know the area of the seller and I'm guessing someone bought this as a show piece and didn't want it anymore, its not a very rural or rugged town - its a nice suburb, they probably weren't getting any use or bought it with the house.

Thanks so much for any insights you have - my search may be over soon...

 

[mellow]

You don't want that old stove, that is why the price is so cheap. You would be better off buying an NC13 or the Madison if you want to keep your costs down, but it won't burn as long on low as the Woodstock.

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/50tnc13----epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1850131801.html)
(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/50masmheup18.html)

 

[ZenFire]

Thanks, can you elaborate on why? Are older Hearthstones less efficient in terms of heat output or air pollutants or..? Just trying to understand.

 

[mellow]

Correct, if you are looking for efficiency a newer model will most always be better. The seller does not have pictures of the baffle on that model, not sure if it it is cat or tube for secondary but if you are seriously looking at it you would want pics of that area.

If I was in your shoes I would get the NC13 as an interim solution till you can get what you really want (woodstock), you can always sell it later.

 

[begreen]

The Hearthstone II a 2 cu ft basic (single tube) secondary stove. It's not a terrible heater and the price is good if the interior matches the exterior condition. If you are looking for a cheap starter stove it might work out ok.

Check the stones for major cracks. The two interior areas to inspect are the secondary tube and baffle area. Once the secondary tube ruptures there will be too much air coming in and if ignored the baffle will start to warp and burn out. There is excellent detailed information in the classics forum here on rebuilding this stove.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/1985-hearthstone-ii.143670/

 

[DUMF]

My partner, the brilliant MBA, convinced me once to NOT get used chainsaw to add to the fleet.
Her reasoning finally hit home: you'll keep any tool, appliance, vehicle, etc... for years. What will be the actual cost/year compared with the rated cost of a used 'thing' when the cost in $$$ and time and aggravation for repair and maintenance is added ?
Your heater will be used in Cornellville, often. ( Don't get me started on "By the waters of Cayuga there is an awful smell....." ) A new stove from a reliable maker and dealer will have a warranty, maker backup, greater efficiency, ad nauseum. And the romance of a lying beside a lovely fire in the middle of dark January is priceless.
Now, an inconvenient truth: we always buy used cars. Stoves and dishwashers and tankless water heaters and computers, no.

 

[JA600L]

Get a catalytic soapstone stove and you won't regret it that's for sure.

 

[ZenFire]

Thanks mellow and begreen - I've asked the seller for pictures of the secondary tube and baffle, he will send them tomorrow and I hope that helps me make the decision.

DUMF - I hear you, but spending more isn't always an option, sometimes the question is 'what can I get for the money I have'. If I had the extra cash lying around for it, I see the value in just getting something new, I wouldn't need to be convinced.

 

[begreen]

Good luck, hope the stove looks as good inside as outside. If so, it's a good deal and will heat the joint ok. It will use a bit more wood, but that may be a reasonable trade off for a few years. It can be upgraded later as the budget allows. Keep it in good shape and you won't lose any money on it.

 

[ZenFire]

Hi all, thanks so much for your time and kindness. No word on more photos of the Hearthstone II although I now see that I was looking at the specs for the wrong model, I didn't realize it was probably built in 1988 - that is older than I thought.

Another stove I'm looking at is this Hearthstone Pheonix: (broken link removed to http://newjersey.craigslist.org/for/5785464094.html)

I already asked him for inside photos and he did provide a few good ones. I see some hairline cracks and corrosion along the back - the tubes on the top look well used but no visible cracks or warping, to my untrained eye.

I'd be grateful if anyone else could give me a "thumbs up", "thumbs down" or other instinct on this stove.

 

[JA600L]

It's a nice looking stove. 2.2 cuft is a little small though.