Introduction/Mitigating the cold in my basement

[Retired Weatherman]

Hi! This is my first post on here. After living/working in Florida for 31 years, at the end of June of this year I retired back to upstate NY where I grew up. I purchased a 1965 home that has 1650sqft/2BR upstairs, and about 550sqft/2BR downstairs). The house came with a 2-3 year old St. Croix Prescott EXL Series 320, which we had serviced in September and have been using since mid October. Downstairs is the furnace/275 gallon heating oil tank for the forced hot air system that runs throughout the house. My stove sits in the family room, which is a large (~560sqft) converted 2-car garage with a high (12-15ft) vaulted ceiling and 2 fans that I'm running on reverse. As you can imagine, since the family room is a conversion, it has only two small heating vents at the base of the wall that divides it from the rest of the house (FTR I also have central air with a brand new 3-ton /16 seer condenser unit).

The stove does an amazing job heating at the entire upstairs. However, since the thermostat is also upstairs, even though it's at the very opposite end from where the stove is, the furnace rarely kicks on, even if I turn the thermostat all the way up to 75F, and keep the doors to both bedrooms and upstairs bathroom open at night. Both downstairs bedrooms are occupied by family members, and, not surprisingly, they've mentioned how cold the basement stays. I need to mitigate this, but I'm not very knowledgeable about heating/HVAC stuff. Do I need to relocate the thermostat to the basement, so I can get the furnace to run more often? And would I also need to maybe have some sort of diverter/damper to keep the vast majority of furnace heat in the basement during the winter, but also allows the A/C to circulate freely in the summer?

Thanks in advance. Since this is my first post, and I'm a noob around here, apologies if this is considered OT since it's more about my other heating unit rather than my stove.

Tony

 

[jackman]

Welcome to the forum. The answer I've heard from the HVAC experts is to "move air". If your furnace has a setting to keep the blower running on a low setting all the time then you might want to give that a try.

 

[bogieb]

Well, the best way would be to put a pellet stove downstairs also But, that isn't always feasible, I really don't know anything about forced air, but here are a couple of things to think about

Relocating the thermostat would certainly work and you would need to close all vents upstairs (and perhaps there is a method to put in a diverter) to get maximum effect downstairs. Not sure you would really want to do that because as you get older, then the pellet stove may not see as much use because of the weight of the pellets.

Or, it might be possible to convert to a 2-zone system, in which case you would install a second thermostat (I have no idea how much work would be involved converting the ducting). I know some people also do what @jackman said - or even just run the fan every hour or so (instead of full time).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’m trying to picture the house. Is this a ranch sunk into a hill where the garage/family room is part of the basement? Are the walls concrete block? How high is the earth outside the basement? Uninsulated concrete can suck around 30% of the heat out of an area. What are the windows and sill plate/rim joist like?

Can you sketch a floor plan so we can get a better idea on what’s happening?

I think the first thing I’d look into would be wall composition and insulation. There’s a very good chance that a little bit of insulation and air sealing could radically change your house. Given the age, it’s possible that there isn’t any insulation in the walls.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Welcome to the forum. The answer I've heard from the HVAC experts is to "move air". If your furnace has a setting to keep the blower running on a low setting all the time then you might want to give that a try.

Hi! This is my first post on here. After living/working in Florida for 31 years, at the end of June of this year I retired back to upstate NY where I grew up. I purchased a 1965 home that has 1650sqft/2BR upstairs, and about 550sqft/2BR downstairs). The house came with a 2-3 year old St. Croix Prescott EXL Series 320, which we had serviced in September and have been using since mid October. Downstairs is the furnace/275 gallon heating oil tank for the forced hot air system that runs throughout the house. My stove sits in the family room, which is a large (~560sqft) converted 2-car garage with a high (12-15ft) vaulted ceiling and 2 fans that I'm running on reverse. As you can imagine, since the family room is a conversion, it has only two small heating vents at the base of the wall that divides it from the rest of the house (FTR I also have central air with a brand new 3-ton /16 seer condenser unit).

The stove does an amazing job heating at the entire upstairs. However, since the thermostat is also upstairs, even though it's at the very opposite end from where the stove is, the furnace rarely kicks on, even if I turn the thermostat all the way up to 75F, and keep the doors to both bedrooms and upstairs bathroom open at night. Both downstairs bedrooms are occupied by family members, and, not surprisingly, they've mentioned how cold the basement stays. I need to mitigate this, but I'm not very knowledgeable about heating/HVAC stuff. Do I need to relocate the thermostat to the basement, so I can get the furnace to run more often? And would I also need to maybe have some sort of diverter/damper to keep the vast majority of furnace heat in the basement during the winter, but also allows the A/C to circulate freely in the summer?

Thanks in advance. Since this is my first post, and I'm a noob around here, apologies if this is considered OT since it's more about my other heating unit rather than my stove.

Tony

I think I'd look at putting another thermostat in the basement and close off the hot air vents upstairs when the woodstove is on full.
You need to have lots of hot air supply vents in the basement and air returns. Upstairs you should be able to open the ones in bedrooms a little where the stove heat does not go. You are not going to waste any heat.
Edit - I think some thermostats unplug from a base that has the wires on it. You could move the thermostat head from one location to the other. In summer it would be upstairs for cool mode. In the winter downstairs in heat mode.

 

[EbS-P]

How often do you need to heat the basement? What is you DIY skill level? I vote mini split heatpump in the basement.

 

[Retired Weatherman]

I’m trying to picture the house. Is this a ranch sunk into a hill where the garage/family room is part of the basement? Are the walls concrete block? How high is the earth outside the basement? Uninsulated concrete can suck around 30% of the heat out of an area. What are the windows and sill plate/rim joist like?

Can you sketch a floor plan so we can get a better idea on what’s happening?

I think the first thing I’d look into would be wall composition and insulation. There’s a very good chance that a little bit of insulation and air sealing could radically change your house. Given the age, it’s possible that there isn’t any insulation in the walls.

I'll go even one better... here's the link to the real estate listing...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/213-Paisley-Rd-Ballston-Spa-NY-12020/32444400_zpid/?view=public

As you can tell from the listing, the property slopes from back right to left front. The family room/pellet stove are on the right side of the house, and the rooms in the basement start on the left side. Even though the family room is sunken (3 steps down), it still sits higher than the basement. The walls are concrete block.

The basement is comprised of one larger bedroom (24) and a tiny bathroom (27) on one side (toward the back of the house), and the laundry room (22-23) and smaller bedroom (26) on the other (toward the front). A narrow walkway (attached) between the two sides leads to the room where the furnace, oil tank and water filtration system is (also attached). The back wall of the furnace room is directly underneath wall that separates the family room and the rest of the house.

 

[Retired Weatherman]

How often do you need to heat the basement? What is you DIY skill level? I vote mini split heatpump in the basement.

Every day during the winter, since there are 2 occupied bedrooms down there. I'm not at all experienced with electrical, HVAC, plumbing type work beyond really simple stuff.

 

[EbS-P]

Every day during the winter, since there are 2 occupied bedrooms down there. I'm not at all experienced with electrical, HVAC, plumbing type work beyond really simple stuff.

We have a walkout basement too. It’s cold.. I try to close all the upstairs vents halfway (a two all the way) to get more air into the basement. It’s a losing battle.

The best solution is mini splits in the rooms if they have some exterior above grade wall. A 9k btu head in each room should be enough. Electric space heaters are an option. You just have to weight the short and long term costs.

I haven’t done the mini splits … yet. We have 3 bedrooms and a living room with wood insert. If it’s really cold we light a fire. If I put a mini split down there all the heat will go up the open staircase. I have a vinyl strip door and shower curtains that I hang up that work well enough.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, that’s not at all what I was picturing!

First check the walls. Pre 1982 or so, our area had about an inch of fiberglass in the stud bays… maybe. That’d be step 1 for me. If you don’t let the heat out, whatever system you have is going to work better. Don’t forget about the rim joist/sill plate area.

2nd, check to see if there are dampers on your ductwork. Maybe you can divert more of the heat into the basement.

You very well might need additional heating in the basement. Mini splits could very well cover most of the heating needs. You might run into issues when we hit the coldest days with minisplits though. Saratoga county where you are probably gets to -10 or so a few days a year.

 

[Retired Weatherman]

Thank you all for the replies! Even my father-in-law, who's a retired carpenter, suggested a mini-split heat pump, which is what he has in his TV room (a converted one-car garage). I'll be reaching out to a couple local HVAC places this weekend/early next week.

One thing I forgot to mention is that, unlike the larger basement bedroom toward the back of the house, the small basement bedroom across the hall has no windows, as its front facing wall is mostly embedded into the ground. The larger bedroom has some embedding, but has a window, and more overall wall exposure to the outside air on the left and back sides. (see photos). Plus the floor area in the smaller bedroom is only about 90-95sqft (<8ft x <12ft).

As a result, I've been told that the smaller bedroom (where a teen sleeps) hasn't been getting nearly as cold as the larger one is. Thus, it seems like I'd just need the one mini split for that larger bedroom (where an adult sleeps).

 

[EbS-P]

where a teen sleeps) hasn't been getting nearly as cold

As a teen I would sleep with my window cracked some night in the winter. Cold can be a relative thing. But that sounds about right. By the end of winter the soil will be colder so that room might not be as comfortable come February.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yup. Not so long ago there were incoming water lines freezing in a local town. The frost can go deep here.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thank you all for the replies! Even my father-in-law, who's a retired carpenter, suggested a mini-split heat pump, which is what he has in his TV room (a converted one-car garage). I'll be reaching out to a couple local HVAC places this weekend/early next week.

One thing I forgot to mention is that, unlike the larger basement bedroom toward the back of the house, the small basement bedroom across the hall has no windows, as its front facing wall is mostly embedded into the ground. The larger bedroom has some embedding, but has a window, and more overall wall exposure to the outside air on the left and back sides. (see photos). Plus the floor area in the smaller bedroom is only about 90-95sqft (<8ft x <12ft).

As a result, I've been told that the smaller bedroom (where a teen sleeps) hasn't been getting nearly as cold as the larger one is. Thus, it seems like I'd just need the one mini split for that larger bedroom (where an adult sleeps).

If you have some extra electrical panel space (enough for a double pole breaker, 20A) you can just get some convect heaters. I installed this one in my basement next to my pellet stove. They are inexpensive, built in thermostat, and multstage heat output. With the bedroom doors closed they will heat the room no problem. I have two mini-slits, and when I got here one was in the basement. I could not use the cooling function/dehumidify at all in the summer as it never got over 21C down there. I moved it to my bedroom where I love it. It is now heating and cooling my main level. I think mini splits are not going to supply the heat properly when you really need it as they frost up. I use mine when it's warmer than -5C or so then keep the pellet stove going full time. I still think you could use your furnace but ifyoyu don'tneed to heat the entire basement I'd just keep the fan on all the time and circulated your upstairs air by partially closing off the basement air return.

 

[Ricks]

I would make sure the sill plate and joist bays are insulated. Given the age of the house more than likely that area needs more insulation.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I’m in a lot of houses and the amount of houses with no insulation at the rim joist, or it’s in backwards is shocking.