Masonry Heater vs Wood stove

[Adios Pantalones]

I am not sure what they are comparing it to, but the 1/5 of the wood number is completely a fallacy. Even if my stove is 50% efficient (which it exceeds) and the MH was 100% efficient (which it is not)...that would only be a reduction of 50% consumption.

I assumed they meant 1/5 less. As in- uses 80%. 20% reduction. If you have 5 logs, you only need 4.

 

[Bster13]

I think it is 4/5ths as pointed out by Woody Stover:

"a masonry heater will use 1/5 (or much) less wood, then a home heated with a metal wood stove"

But 20% more efficient is a big improvement as well.

 

[Jags]

I assumed they meant 1/5 less. As in- uses 80%. 20% reduction. If you have 5 logs, you only need 4.

Okay - that, I might even be able to live with and except as possible.

 

[begreen]

Wishful thinking is more like it. As tested there are several woodstoves that will meet or beat a masonry heater's efficiency. I like masonry heaters a lot, but would not expect to use less wood burning one.

"The initial hypothesis that the masonry heater would operate at 90% efficiency proved incorrect. The heater in fact operated at 79.5% efficiency."

http://pages.uoregon.edu/hof/W09HOF/21MasonryHeater_ppr.pdf

 

[byQ]

It must be 20% less, and that makes more sense. I wonder what the % of heating appliances in the USA that have hearths are masonry heaters? It has to be less than 1%. It would be nice in the future if this # was up to 20%. And little MH were built more. And concepts/means were out there where a guy could build an "ugly" but efficient MH in his basement.

 

[Bster13]

Hrmm, that takes some wind out of the sails. Don't have time to read it now, but curious as to how they are measuring efficiency vs. EPA vs. LHV vs. HHV methods...

Wishful thinking is more like it. As tested there are several woodstoves that will meet or beat a masonry heater's efficiency. I like masonry heaters a lot, but would not expect to use less wood burning one.

"The initial hypothesis that the masonry heater would operate at 90% efficiency proved incorrect. The heater in fact operated at 79.5% efficiency."

http://pages.uoregon.edu/hof/W09HOF/21MasonryHeater_ppr.pdf

 

[Jags]

It would be nice in the future if this # was up to 20%. And little MH were built more.

Little MH is an oxymoron.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I have a "little" MH right here in the living room.

And I don't care WHERE you put it, if it's ugly, "someone" ain't going to put up wiith it. I can only guess, but my bet is the OP is single.

And by design, if it's going to heat a whole house, it can't jus be "in the basement".. ugly or otherwise. When it's 12F outside and snowing sideways, no amount of warm rocks in the basement is going to warm her second floor bathroom.

 

[byQ]

Little MH is an oxymoron.

This is a little one,

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And this is a big one,

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[Jags]

So small - it doesn't even exist. (click on video and it reply's "this video does not exist. Even the utube link is broke.).

 

[byQ]

I got the youtube entries (couple of posts above) to work (darn those1's, l's, and I's. I guess it is meant to be.

 

[Jags]

Well, I guess my point was that a MH is all about heated mass. Enough mass at the typical MH temps that allow for fully heating most homes wouldn't be considered small in comparison to any other heating appliance.

 

[begreen]

I have a "little" MH right here in the living room.

And I don't care WHERE you put it, if it's ugly, "someone" ain't going to put up wiith it. I can only guess, but my bet is the OP is single.

And by design, if it's going to heat a whole house, it can't jus be "in the basement".. ugly or otherwise. When it's 12F outside and snowing sideways, no amount of warm rocks in the basement is going to warm her second floor bathroom.

Well they certainly don't need to be ugly. A well designed and executed MH is an attractive and integral addition to the home.

 

[Bster13]

I think each homeowner's definition of "attractive" is different. But an "ugly" stove is easier to change out vs. a MH for a new homeowner.

 

[Sprinter]

Well they certainly don't need to be ugly. A well designed and executed MH is an attractive and integral addition to the home.

View attachment 102139 View attachment 102141 View attachment 102142

Thanks for those pics. I think it helps a lot of us unfamiliar with the concept to see some well done examples.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Thanks for those pics. I think it helps a lot of us unfamiliar with the concept to see some well done examples.

Retrofitting most houses with one would be a major PITA. Design a house around one and who wouldn't want one?

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Well they certainly don't need to be ugly. A well designed and executed MH is an attractive and integral addition to the home.

(Thanks for the pics, the second one looks very close to a Tulikivi we were thinking about..)

Oh, I know they can be very attractive. We looked very hard at them. Place across the river has several set up. I was comenting on the OP's..

" And concepts/means were out there where a guy could build an "ugly" but efficient MH in his basement." statement.

IF we build again, and that's a pretty big if, (we got it pretty close to perfect this time) we would very possibly go with a full MH.. and of course a house built around it.

Although.. I have this design in my head for a huge double loft barn like structure with an Equinox at each end.. That's nearly a ton of MH right there.. lol.

 

[Bster13]

How do you sweep a MH? I have to think, even with the intense fire, it needs to be done every once in awhile?

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I *think* like a rocket mass heater, that the idea is it's built in such a way that "flue fire" happens on purpose, and can't get out of control..

 

[Ashful]

* masonry heaters create an even heat - you're heating a big mass, wood stoves go to extremes - from hot to cold (they are just a box after all, what do you expect?)

I am heating a mass larger than your masonry stove, with my metal box stove. That mass is my stone house, which soaks up and radiates back... much like a masonry heater.

Europeans are just smarter than Americans on certain things. And this is one of those things. They build smaller more efficient houses and they heat them with masonry heaters. "Funny Americans, they just don't know any better..."

I've spent time living in Europe, and am familiar with this sentiment. I would debate this with with middle-class professional Germans who drive their little Volkswagons or Audi A2's (26 hp Trabi's in the east) from their 500 sq.ft. apartments or woefully compact homes to their low-paying jobs, while thinking they were so "metropolitan".

They build smaller houses, because it is all they can afford, not because they somehow desire cramming themselves into less space. They spend a lot of money on making their homes efficient, because their government has taxed energy into the stratosphere, trying to compensate for a very inefficient economic system. Yep... they're brilliant.

That said, they don't have it all wrong. Wonderful coffee, food, beer, and attitude toward relaxation and life. It's the differences that make this world interesting.

Joful, European American

 

[Dave A.]

it's built in such a way that "flue fire" happens on purpose, and can't get out of control..

That kind of clears the cobwebs on this, as to how all that high heat get's into the masonry -- you probably have fire running through the smoke path much of the time when the fire is burning at it's hottest.

 

[DevilsBrew]

I'm only throwing this out there again. I made a request down on the Suggestions forum about adding an Alternative Stove (or whatever you want to call it) forum for those of us who don't fit in. There seems to be a growing interest in Masonry and the like. My Rocket Stove threads have ended up in the Wood Stove, Pre-1988, and DIY forums (where I now hang out talking to myself. Lol.). I'm new so I am not wanting to create any waves. Just a suggestion.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Europeans are just smarter than Americans on certain things. And this is one of those things. They build smaller more efficient houses and they heat them with masonry heaters. "Funny Americans, they just don't know any better. They've actually believe wood stoves are comparable. Have you tried to tell them?...You know how Americans are. Once they start doing something they convince themselves of it's superiority even when it isn't so. They'll catch up eventually." Must we always lag behind?
.

I am going to guess you have never actually been to Europe? I lived there for a decade. Married one and brought her home.

You want to know what Germans think and say about America? I can tell you first hand. Her whole family wants to come here on vacation, they don't want us to go there. Her parents come over, rent a car and just freeking drive for days. They have seen more of this country than I have! Yep most of them live in small, multi family/generation homes. Where my wife is from, Erlangen Germany, in Bavaria, bare ground, if for sale, would be about 4 million euros an acre, and would cost another million to get/have anything built on it(permits and such). That's why. Her family comes to visit, and just marvels at the 10 acres of woods, huge house and beautiful open views of our little valley, the fact that the forestmeister doesn't tell me IF I CAN, or WHICH deer to shoot, or tree to cut. etc etc etc.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I'm only throwing this out there again. I made a request down on the Suggestions forum about adding an Alternative Stove (or whatever you want to call it) forum for those of us who don't fit in. There seems to be a growing interest in Masonry and the like. My Rocket Stove posts have ended up in the Wood Stove, Pre-1988, and DIY forums (where I now hang out talking to myself. Lol.). I'm new so I am not wanting to create any waves. Just a suggestion.

It's a good idea.. in a way.. But I fear if you think you are talking to yourself now.. it will be pure crickets in a dedicated forum. There are lots of reasons that the rocket and massonry heaters aren't really popular, some good some bad, but, unfortunatly it's fact.

 

[Dave A.]

I'm only throwing this out there again. I made a request down on the Suggestions forum about adding an Alternative Stove (or whatever you want to call it) forum for those of us who don't fit in. There seems to be a growing interest in Masonry and the like. My Rocket Stove threads have ended up in the Wood Stove, Pre-1988, and DIY forums (where I now hang out talking to myself. Lol.). I'm new so I am not wanting to create any waves. Just a suggestion.

MH's aren't exactly stoves or fireplaces. Just my opinion but without a special area for these types of heaters, would think The Green Room might be a good place .