New Jotul F55 Installed

[jeffesonm]

Well this morning the building inspector came and gave the a-ok to my newly installed Jotul F55. This stove is replacing the Osburn Matrix I had last year (old thread) and I'm hoping the freestander will up the heat output.

The stove sits on the hearth so I needed an extra 16" of non-combustible (embers only) protection out in front. Given how long the last stove lasted, I also didn't want to make any permanent changes. I tried to find matching stone that was thin enough where I could just rest it on top of the wood floor, but to no avail. Ultimately I ordered a piece of 1/2" tempered glass 18"x44" which was cheap, easy, non permanent and looks pretty decent.

I was also able to finally (almost) finish my firewood storage area, which has been dragging on since last winter. This was my first stone veneer project and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. The area is 20" wide and 36" deep, so I can fit splits two rows deep. I still need an outlet cover for the outlet and a vent cover for the small circulating fan that blows warm air into the office, behind the fireplace wall.

The stove is just cooling down from the third and final break in fire, so tomorrow it's game on. Looks like it will dip into the 30s next week... looking forward to seeing how it performs.

Original fireplace:


Osburn Matrix:


Jotul F55:

 

[Nick Mystic]

Nice job Jeff. I particularly like your outside the box thinking on the glass hearth extension. It looks like the glass is a bit thinner than your stone extension. My hearth extension had a slight cant to it, so I made some shims to put under the front legs to even it up.

 

[jzinckgra]

I've got the same stove and am trying to learn it's burn characteristics. Generally it is very well behaved and holds temp extremely well. However, I am trying to get the best secondaries out of it and have found the primary (or is it secondary) air lever on the front is sensitive. Someone else on here mentioned closing off the air intake in the back of the stove since he thought his F55 was actually getting too much air. I've played with it a bit, but don't see much improvement in secondary combustion. In any case, what is the "safe" temp which I can cruise the stove at? I've only had it up to 500F. Both the stove top and probe thermometer were reading the same.

 

[jeffesonm]

The lever controls the primary air... I don't think there's a way to control secondary air, at least not as it was designed. I know on some stoves people have used metal/foil to block off secondary air intake to slow things down even further.

So far the stove is working well for me... it seems to heat better than the Matrix that was in there before, and I'm sure that's a function of increased size and freestanding vs flush insert. I haven't been running it real hard (packing it full 24/7) as it hasn't been terribly cold yet, but I've had it up to 650 or so on the stove top. The label on the door says glowing parts indicates overfiring, so as long as nothing is glowing, I'd venture to say you're in good shape.

 

[woodsmith]

Great looking install! I had an F55 installed earlier this fall and we are loving it. I haven't had it much higher than 600 stovetop, but this thing puts out a good amount of heat and is much easier to operate than the Avalon Arbor we had hooked up. It's also built right here in Maine, which is a big plus for me. Here are a couple of pics of my stove cruising on a partial load.

Link Removed Link Removed

 

[begreen]

Nice fire shots!

 

[woodsmith]

Thanks! Sorry about the sideways image. Can't figure out how rotate it on my phone.

 

[jzinckgra]

Thanks! Sorry about the sideways image. Can't figure out how rotate it on my phone.

Where in maine?. Im from raymond

 

[woodsmith]

Where in maine?. Im from raymond

I'm just outside of Machias.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm just outside of Machias.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[jzinckgra]

Got the F55 up to 550f last nite with great secondaries and primary fully closed, but got nervous since the temp was creeping up and I wanted to go to bed. I ended up blocking the secondary intake a couple minutes and that seemed to bring it down. It's hard to go to bed not knowing if your temp is stable, but reading the above posts where some have had their stoves up to 650F, looks like I had some breathing room. The funny thing was this was accomplished with 3 small splits. I can't imagine filling the box full to the gills. I gotta slowly build my confidence.

 

[7acres]

Wow, nice install! And beautiful room too.

 

[OHutton]

I'd love to know more about how the Jotul is performing versus the Matrix. I've been trying to find somebody who has upgraded to a freestander from an insert to see if it would be worth it. This is especially helpful since you're a former Matrix owner. I just got a Matrix insert and have been kind of bummed with how it's been performing. It doesn't seem to throw off all that much heat. I can stand inches away from the glass with it blazing and I don't feel much.

I don't have a thermometer, and I haven't done the block off plate yet so I know I need to do a little more testing and research before starting a thread. I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel, but my confidence is definitely waning. I joined this forum to try and get some more info from the veterans, but I need to do my block off plate and check a few more things out before I start complaining. I've seen enough threads to know that if I haven't done a few simple things everybody is just going to tell me to do that stuff first.

 

[jeffesonm]

If you're inches away from the blazing fire and don't feel much, something is wrong. The Matrix couldn't keep my 1800 sq ft house warm in 20 degree weather but it did a pretty good job anywhere above that. And when it was blazing, you could definitely feel it. I used to come home from work and lay on the carpet 4-5' from the stove and just go to sleep because it was so warm.

Is your firewood dry? Like not looks gray, or sounds hollow, but definitely, truly dry. That would make a big difference. If you're not sure, try a bag of kiln dried stuff from the grocery store and see if it changes things. Also make sure you're letting it get hot enough. It took me a while to get comfortable letting the fire rage for a bit to really heat up the stove. A $20 infrared thermometer off Amazon gave me the peace of mind that I wasn't going to melt anything. Also are you using the blower? That makes a big difference too in the amount of heat going into the room, especially because it's a flush insert.

Now to answer your specific question, I think the freestander definitely puts out more heat, but it isn't a dramatic difference. Noticeable, but not crazy. Sorry not sure how else to describe it. I think the lack of blower noise is a more dramatic change than the heat output. I am trying really hard to burn zero oil, but I think the Matrix got me 80% of the way there... so is it worth taking a loss to chase that last 20%? Also in NJ I've got ~5500 heating degree days/year, whereas Chico, CA has more like 3000. How big a house are you heating?

Before seriously considering the switch, you should do the block off plate and verify the wood is dry and you're burning it hot enough.

 

[OHutton]

Hey thanks so much for the response. Most of that stuff is why I haven't bothered to start posting much on these forums. I just don't have all the facts yet and I need to do my own homework. It definitely gives me hope though.

To address a few of your points.

Wood: While I have not used a moisture content meter, I'm guessing the wood is pretty well seasoned. Here in Nor Cal we have some great options for wood. I bought around 1/2 cord of almond that had been sitting around for two years from an old lady who got a gas stove. It's realllllly dense hard stuff, but very well checked and when I split it with an axe, it feels very dry and it's very splintery. Then I found a good deal on almond delivered and that was definitely not as seasoned. The guy claimed it was. It was checked/hollow sounding/etc when it arrived, but I could tell after comparing the two that it wasn't quite up to snuff. It still burns plenty well though. Finally, I decided to try 1/4 cord of Eucalyptus (for a trial run this time) which is pretty well known for burning really hot. I picked this up in person because I really wanted to give it a once over. It looked super dry, and was surprisingly light compared to the almond. That made me a little nervous just because I felt like it would just burn out super quickly like pine or cedar. While it catches almost instantly, it also seems to go the distance and actually seems to mix well with the almond by keeping the almond hotter than it normally would be? I don't have any proof of how dry any of this actual wood is either though so it could all be too wet for all I know.

Temps: This is where I suspect most of my problem is after reading your post. After reading the Osburn manual and all of the warnings about over firing, I think I could be too conservative. I know I need a temp gun to be sure. Typically I get a fire started with a full box and let it get raging for a 15-30 minutes. I hear the metal creaking as it's expanding quickly as the secondaries start rolling. I leave this for a while and then back it off. I'm trying to get slow flames with good secondary action and I think this is where I may be losing the temps. I think I'm choking it back too much trying to get the most out of those super slowmo flames. The secondaries are usually glowing in places where the flames are concentrated, and occasionally you can see the stone above the secondaries glowing a bit...especially at the front where the smoke drafts up. It's not always though. I probably would have gotten a thermo gun earlier, but I was unaware you could get a super accurate reading with an insert. A lot of other threads I was reading said it was hard to tell.

I have not done the block off plate either. Right now I have a gap above the stove which will give me some access to install one. I'll make sure to stuff a crapload of roxul above the plate, but I don't think I plan on getting too crazy with the caulking, etc. I still need to fill the gap above the stove with a custom 4-6 inch faceplate backing plate, but for now it's open. I was thinking about making a plate with some scallop venting so the heat could escape out the front above the stove. Might be overkill though. I can draw a diagram if you want to see the idea. I was even thinking about rigging up some kind of extra fan in there to circulate the air out when it's all buttoned up. I even thought one of those automatic electricity free thermo fans might work as some sort of passive system. I suspect I'm probably getting ahead of myself.

House size: Our house is about 2200 sf, but there's an attic upstairs which although insulated doesn't factor into the official square footage. While I'm not burning 24/7, I am trying to get just the living area warm because that's where the wife and I spend almost all of our time. We have a big comforter and flannel sheets. My goal has never been to heat the whole house. Mainly I just want the area where we spend most of our waking hours to be warm. Our downstairs is about 2/3 of the square footage of the house. We have some drafty windows. The thermostat occasionally gets up to 70 once the fire's been running a few hours, but that's where it seems to top off. For example it's 69/70 in the house and the fire has been on since 3pm. I've done three complete cycles and it's almost 11pm now. The temp outdoors when I started the fire was about 60 degrees and it's 50 degrees now. The thermostat is located 20 feet from the fireplace and is about equidistant to our couches where we hang out at night. Keep in mind that reading is near the fireplace only though. If you walk to the far corner away from the fireplace it's still very chilly.

Last thing is our chimney is about 30 feet. We have a steep peaked roof and it definitely extends above the highest point. I've never had a problem getting the fire started!

I'll check things out this weekend and get some real facts.

Thanks for the help!
Oliver

 

[OHutton]

Oh and definitely yes on the rattley/noisy blower. Been using that since day one. I set it to auto and it kicks on about 20 minutes in usually.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm just outside of Machias.

You don't happen to know Clyde Bernhardt do you? Good guy. Heard he was having some health issues.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'd love to know more about how the Jotul is performing versus the Matrix. I've been trying to find somebody who has upgraded to a freestander from an insert to see if it would be worth it. This is especially helpful since you're a former Matrix owner. I just got a Matrix insert and have been kind of bummed with how it's been performing. It doesn't seem to throw off all that much heat. I can stand inches away from the glass with it blazing and I don't feel much.

I don't have a thermometer, and I haven't done the block off plate yet so I know I need to do a little more testing and research before starting a thread. I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel, but my confidence is definitely waning. I joined this forum to try and get some more info from the veterans, but I need to do my block off plate and check a few more things out before I start complaining. I've seen enough threads to know that if I haven't done a few simple things everybody is just going to tell me to do that stuff first.

Dumb question . . . when the fire was going pretty well (thermometers help out a lot here in letting you know you are burning at the right temp) did you start to cut back the air and achieve a secondary burn? Once up and running (and it takes a half hour to 45 minutes from a cold start) the Oslo should deliver some searing heat . . . especially from the front with the neoceram "glass".

A block up plate will also help.

I assume your wood is good?

Trust me . . . if the wood is good and you're running the stove right the Oslo will heat the home . . . at least it heats for me up here in Maine.

 

[7acres]

A block up plate will also help.

What is a block up plate and what does it do?

 

[firefighterjake]

Temps: This is where I suspect most of my problem is after reading your post. After reading the Osburn manual and all of the warnings about over firing, I think I could be too conservative. I know I need a temp gun to be sure. Typically I get a fire started with a full box and let it get raging for a 15-30 minutes. I hear the metal creaking as it's expanding quickly as the secondaries start rolling. I leave this for a while and then back it off. I'm trying to get slow flames with good secondary action and I think this is where I may be losing the temps. I think I'm choking it back too much trying to get the most out of those super slowmo flames. The secondaries are usually glowing in places where the flames are concentrated, and occasionally you can see the stone above the secondaries glowing a bit...especially at the front where the smoke drafts up. It's not always though. I probably would have gotten a thermo gun earlier, but I was unaware you could get a super accurate reading with an insert. A lot of other threads I was reading said it was hard to tell.

I think you are right . . . I really think this may be more of a temp issue vs. wood . . . although that should be ruled out as well.

I am a bit confused though . . . this originally was a thread about a F55 . . . do you have a F55 or something else? Osburn?

In either case I can tell you what I do on a cold start with my Jotul Oslo . . . and again it generally takes me a half hour to 45 minutes from a stone,cold stove to where I can start to get some heat.

I load up the stove and do a top down fire start . . . the side door is ajar . . . air control open all the way. I watch the thermometer on the stove top and stove pipe . . . when the stove pipe temp reaches the "Goldilocks" zone (not too hot and not too cool) I close the side door, but leave the air control open. If the fire continues to burn and do well I will start to slowly close the air control -- about a quarter "turn" or "push" at a time . . . wait 5 or so minutes . . . if the fire continues to burn . . . reduce it more . . . until usually it is around a quarter open. At some point you should start seeing the secondaries -- depending on the wood, air, draft, etc. these could be occasional bursts of flame in the upper part of the firebox, propane BBQ like jets coming out of the secondary burner tubes or it may look like a portal to Hell has just opened up in the upper part of the firebox as flames spew out everywhere . . . typically there will be very few if any flames on the wood itself.

Metal creaking is a good sign . . . usually it means the stove's metal is warming up.

Cutting back the air too soon or too much will either result in a) the fire dying or b) you not getting as much heat as you should from your heating appliance.

 

[OHutton]

I am a bit confused though . . . this originally was a thread about a F55 . . . do you have a F55 or something else? Osburn?

To clarify: Jeffersonm, the OP first had a Osburn Matrix and then installed the Jotul F55. I stalked his threads on here for a while trying to find out his experiences with the Matrix because I also have one. I also wanted to find out if the Jotul F55—which is a freestander—is head and shoulders warmer than the Osburn Matrix insert. I'm not considering getting rid of the Matrix in favor of a freestander, but I was really more curious about his experience between the two styles of stoves. His rationale for getting rid of the Matrix was that it was not heating his place quite as well as he wanted when the temps got real low as he's trying to not use any oil. He also said the constant fan noise was a little grating which I can attest to. With all that said, it sounds like he was getting a lot more heat out of his stove than I am. With that information, it would now appear that the problem lies with me and not the stove.

Thanks for the help. And like I said, I'm going to do the block off place, and verify the wood, etc before going much deeper on the issues.

 

[OHutton]

What is a block up plate and what does it do?

See this thread for an explanation as well as links to other threads with block off builds. https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

 

[jeffesonm]

Wood sounds pretty good, at least the eucalyptus does. Fruit/nut woods are notoriously dense which will be awesome eventually, but may not help at the moment. Your description of the burn procedure sounds pretty good too so not sure what the issue is.

I have a fancy spreadsheet I am using to design a wood boiler and my calculations for an 1800 sq ft house with marginal insulation say it should only take ~15,000 BTU/hr to keep the house at 70 when it's 55 degrees outside, so this time of year you should be sweating anywhere near that stove with a good fire going.

 

[jeffesonm]

Also I was able to alleviate most of the blower rattling by wedging Roxul underneath the stove, so give that a whirl while you're stuffing the chimney cavity.

 

[wvstriper]

I have a F50TL Rangely (basically same stove). I've had mine up to 650 with no worries. We had a VC Defiant Encore (cat) for years and replaced it with the Joutul. Going from a stove (VC) that you would be very concerned with big flames and over firing to the Jotul took some getting used to! I have found that full loads of dry wood work best for me. That said, I've had the fire really rolling with the primary vent control just opened a little. After closing it completely the flames gradually reduced in intensity and the surface temp of the stove came down as well. As with any stove learning different load methods and burn cycles takes time, just be patient. I have been very pleased with my stove's performance in terms of heat and long burn times.