New jotul f55 v2 questions

[Flashback87]

My bet is that with each fire operation and knowledge will improve. By the end of the season you will be a pro. At this point, I can not recommend a damper. I think experience and working with only one variable (boost air) is a better plan for at least the first season.

Yeah, im leaving that magnet on the boost air always now... lol.

Just wild how much different this is from my other stove. I piece of metal you throw wood in takes such finesse. Sometimes I think im just over analyzing and panicking. I'm a sales rep for a logistics company and some of the companies I meet with have amish working there. Most have wood stoves and when I ask about temps their stoves run at they have no idea... lol.

Since the pipe above my stove turned red/glowed I went and checked out the chimney. Pipe seemed to just have fly ash (pic below) but I found some flaky creosote on the chimney cap. I took it off and cleaned with my brush but this is the first I have seen it.

I say this because it seems im shutting air down too soon and creosote is forming on cap. Old stove i wait till stt was over 400° or flue where I could reach with Ir gun read 250° with air wide open. But so far on this stove, im afraid to leave air open that long.

I appreciate all the advice and wisdom from everyone! Keep it coming!

Hoping it is just a learning curve I'll nail soon.

Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

When I went from the F3CB to the F400 I had a few fires that got away from me as I was learning the stove. A bigger fuel load has more potential power. If I get distracted and space out turning down the air on the larger T6 things can get lively. That's a pretty rare occurence now, but I'd be lying if I said it never happened.

 

[Todd]

Where are you taking your stt? You need to shut it down sooner. I believe the manual states once the stove hits 400 adjust air down to desired output. I’d probably try adjusting the air down at 300 and see what happens and stick to N/S loading.

 

[Flashback87]

Where are you taking your stt? You need to shut it down sooner. I believe the manual states once the stove hits 400 adjust air down to desired output. I’d probably try adjusting the air down at 300 and see what happens and stick to N/S loading.

Taking temps in the corners of the top plate. I have a magnet placed there and I use IR gun. Magnet is slow and never really goes over 700 so don't really pay attention to that.

I did read about 400° in manual. I was shutting down all the way at that temp or leaving open just a little. This time was the latter.

I thought the e/w on top would slow the burn down but i was way off with that

 

[bigealta]

Bottom row N/S with E/W on top is basically the same as all N/S. All the boost air is free flowing thru the entire firebox.

If you did E/W on bottom and N/S on top that would probably be more controllable, but you won't know for sure until you try it.

If it was me i'd burn all N/S with the boost air round hole blocked with the magnet and a second magnet partially blocking the slider air inlet.

To speed up the learning curve on your set up i'd:

For N/S loading on hot coals:

1. Try packing as tight as possible 1 time.
2. Then try a very loose load but with 1/2 as many splits as a tight pack.
3. Then try just 4 good sized splits.

For cold Start:

Try a good top down fire set up N/S

 

[Flashback87]

2 good fires that were under control. Actually opened the air up just a little while it was cruising to get more heat. Max stt was around 650°. Good to see the fire slow down when I adjust the air so gotta just keep the boost air covered.

I'm getting about 3 hrs max of actual flames. Does this sound about right? Of course, ny coals will last all night but 3 hrs seems the most flame duration. This is using about 7-8 splits. I have not completely filled it yet.

Thanks!

 

[EbS-P]

Is a damper possible with a fireplace install?

I get some smoke roll out when I start loading on coals or in the morning so I assumed my draft was not great.

I would be way off though

Yes but it’s not always easy to install and to operate. It’s might need some custom handle or operator. But it really shouldn’t runaway on 14’. I won’t put on my F400. I found two air leaks (Ashland gasket and side burn plate) and fixed them. (Air sealed the house too).

What I learned this week is to think about burn progression. Most of those burn in front to back with the hottest spot being in front of the lower boost air, which is usually in the center. If I rake all the coals to one side and then load north south I really only have one split exposed to hot colds maybe two. The burn them progresses front to back but also side to side. I also think storing wood inside for several days gets the surface, extra dry and quicker to out gas when you’ve light it up.

 

[bigealta]

Yes i agree with EBS that the f55 should not run away with a 14' chimney. And definitely not with the draft fully closed. It feels like there is a leak somewhere.

That said, with the boost air hole covered, it sounds like the OP is getting the control back.
So i'm guessing the boost air magnet restriction is offsetting a small leak somewhere in the stove.

 

[Todd]

2 good fires that were under control. Actually opened the air up just a little while it was cruising to get more heat. Max stt was around 650°. Good to see the fire slow down when I adjust the air so gotta just keep the boost air covered.

I'm getting about 3 hrs max of actual flames. Does this sound about right? Of course, ny coals will last all night but 3 hrs seems the most flame duration. This is using about 7-8 splits. I have not completely filled it yet.

Thanks!

How big are your splits? 7-8 splits and not completely filled sounds like they are pretty small? This could be causing some of your runaways?

 

[Flashback87]

Yes i agree with EBS that the f55 should not run away with a 14' chimney. And definitely not with the draft fully closed. It feels like there is a leak somewhere.

That said, with the boost air hole covered, it sounds like the OP is getting the control back.
So i'm guessing the boost air magnet restriction is offsetting a small leak somewhere in the stove.

This is interesting because this was my original concern and why I posted.

My installer got a call back from jotul tech and they blamed my wood being too dry. That seems pretty unlikely I think. I'll check random splits at room temp on freshly split pieces and they are between 15-20%. Not sure ive seen anything under that and sont even think its possible in north east ohio.

Where should I look for leaks?

Did dollar bill test and door gasket seems fine but not as tight as my old stove. Glass stays clean unless a log is right on it but it will eventually clean that off as the fire progresses. Also let some kindling smoke outside the stove to see id the smoke gets tucked in. It did not.

My installer is gonna try and come out in the next couple week but anything else I can check in the meantime?

 

[bigealta]

If indeed it is not the door and/or glass gaskets, maybe it could be a rare issue.

I don't know that stove well enough, but a very long shot could be the draft slider is a bit off meaning it lets more air in than it should when closed and very low.

I've seen some guys modifying the draft slider on jotul 602 stoves to get the slider to close just a slight bit more. They report much better control after the Mod.

If it is an issue, than an easy solution (rather than filing down stops on the metal or other means) is to put a magnet partially over the air intake at the slider as i've suggested before. Maybe just cover a slight bit like 1/16th or 1/8th inch. The worst-case is it doesn't help and u just adjust the magnet or take it off.

 

[bigealta]

Looks like a magnet here would be a reasonable test.

 

[Flashback87]

Looks like a magnet here would be a reasonable test.

Actually had to use a magnet there this afternoon. Gradually shut down air and then had air completely closed at a little below 550° stt at about 20 minutes in.

At about 1 hr it got to 690° and didn't seem like it wasn't going to stop so i applied another magnet over main air control. It slowed the burn down to 640° so i took the magnet off to see if it would stay there. It did not and got up to 700 so i put magnet back, temp fell. Not a super alarming temp but I don't like that i need to use these magnets. The heat is killing my rare earth magnets... lol.

So, I got a hold of jotul tech and I was pretty underwhelmed with there assessment. Basically they stated the stove is "bullet proof" and they seemed surprised I was reaching the temps i hit and kept question where I was measuring them. The owners manual states optimum compustion is between 400-700° (pg. 16) and they advised not to run stove at that temp (700°). Seemed a little contracting. Final conclusion from them was to light an incense stick to see if I can find a leak.

I guess I can just cover the primary hole if things get out of hand and keep turning air down sooner. I'll just keep checking the chimney because im getting more smoke.

Back to my flame duration. Does 3 hrs of flames for a 2/3 full stove seem right for this size stove or should i be getting more?

Appreciate the help!

 

[bigealta]

3 hours seems ok? but Todd would know better for the f45 / f55.
3 hours of good flames would be about the max i could get with the f400. 2 to 2 1/2 is more realistic for my stove.

Good work with your magnet tests. If it's me i'd just get some cheaper magnets and dedicate them to the stove and just leave them there.

When you are getting smoke is that on start up on a coal bed? Are you fully opening the air then?
You will get smoke for at least a few minutes on reloads. Are the secondary flames lighting up quickly?

 

[Todd]

3 hours of flame is about right. I’m surprised you got ahold of the Jotul techs. I always took my stt from the top center. That was always the hottest for me. It’s possible your stove is leaking air from somewhere else but it will hard to find with an incense stick since your stove has three shielded sides. You may have to let it burn out and remove all the firebricks and inspect the welds. Is your baffle properly seated?

What does your secondary burn look like? Is it slow lazy floating flames or is it lots of flame with the secondary baffle holes ripping? I ended up covering my secondary air about 1/4 to slow her down. That along with covering the boost air gave me a good controlled burn but I also have a taller 22’ chimney.

You may be chasing you tail playing with magnets, idk, you shouldn’t have to do this, maybe you got a lemon or you just need more trial and error?

 

[Flashback87]

3 hours of flame is about right. I’m surprised you got ahold of the Jotul techs. I always took my stt from the top center. That was always the hottest for me. It’s possible your stove is leaking air from somewhere else but it will hard to find with an incense stick since your stove has three shielded sides. You may have to let it burn out and remove all the firebricks and inspect the welds. Is your baffle properly seated?

What does your secondary burn look like? Is it slow lazy floating flames or is it lots of flame with the secondary baffle holes ripping? I ended up covering my secondary air about 1/4 to slow her down. That along with covering the boost air gave me a good controlled burn but I also have a taller 22’ chimney.

You may be chasing you tail playing with magnets, idk, you shouldn’t have to do this, maybe you got a lemon or you just need more trial and error?

Thanks for confirming flame time! I guess its not eating wood if you are getting about the same.

Secondaries will start lazy since I shut air down pretty quick hoping it doesn't run away, but secondaries will start ripping like crazy! I never get lazy "northern lights" secondaries only at the top. There is always flames ripping off the logs and the secondaries going.

How would I check if the baffles is seated?

You could tell jotul tech was displeased I called. A little disappointed with their approach on "customer experience ". The tech seemed to be rushing me off the phone and did not provide much insight.

The biggest thing im disappointed with is that I feel that I have no control over this stove. The truenorth would slow down and peak when I shut the air down and get lazy flames.... not this beast

 

[Todd]

I just looked at your air flow diagram in the manual. That round hole underneath that it thought was the boost air may be the secondary air inlet? I was thinking it was similar to my F45 but it’s not, my secondary air came in a slot in the back yours looks like it comes through the front? You may have blocked off your secondary air and that’s why you’re seeing smoke? You may have to block off the boost air from inside the fire box instead? Sorry about that. Are there any other holes under there you can see? Maybe the bottom heat shield is blocking access?

 

[Todd]

As far as the baffle goes it should look straight with no gaps around the sides or back.

 

[EbS-P]

play the Tetris game and pack it tight as possible use small splits to fill any gaps. Go as long as possible between reloads. And load it full. That tight packed thermal mass means is all doesn’t start out gassing at once. I always have flames. On my logs in the basement stove. It will get HOT if I turn my back on it for 30 seconds.

 

[MRD1985]

So u went from 1 extreme to the other.

Yes Locust is a hard starter and needs more air and a looser spacing. I've been burning 4 year old locust for the last couple weeks and it takes more air and for longer than any other wood. But then in the middle of the burn it can get Very Hot. It can take an hour or more to get there. Definitely mix in some easier burning wood to help it get going.

If i knew you were going to load with all locust i would have suggested to put spacers between the bottom and top rows and to put a couple easier burning splits (pine, maple, ash, even oak) mixed in.

At least now you know that your stove will not always run away and is controllable.

If you are getting control of N/S loads than that's ideal. If not then E/W is a tool to get the control back.

Hickory can be similar starting. Once it takes off, it releases LOTS of heat.

 

[Flashback87]

I just looked at your air flow diagram in the manual. That round hole underneath that it thought was the boost air may be the secondary air inlet? I was thinking it was similar to my F45 but it’s not, my secondary air came in a slot in the back yours looks like it comes through the front? You may have blocked off your secondary air and that’s why you’re seeing smoke? You may have to block off the boost air from inside the fire box instead? Sorry about that. Are there any other holes under there you can see? Maybe the bottom heat shield is blocking access?

Here is another pic of the underside. Maybe it can provide some guidance. My air control is all the way closed on the pic and hopefully u can see the magnet covering the circular hole.

There is nothing in the manual about boost air and when I uncover the hole my magnet is currently covering u could hear the air rushing in. Sounds like a faint blow torch.

I definitely have a little more control with the small hole covered. Each time its been uncovered, stove has reached upper 700° to 800's.

What is that big rectangle hole in the heatshield in the pic? I'm thinking this rectangle is the secondary air per the diagram and the description under "how your jotul f55 v2 works" section in the manual.

My paint is starting to flake in places. I don't have the rear shroud/heatshield on since its its a fireplace mount but Im starting to see some flaking/peeling in the back as well as other spots. Its weird, I woikd think the top works be flaking because of the STT ive reached but its in places that do not get as hot. I did the 3 break in fires.

Thanks!

 

[EbS-P]

Here is another pic of the underside. Maybe it can provide some guidance. My air control is all the way closed on the pic and hopefully u can see the magnet covering the circular hole.

There is nothing in the manual about boost air and when I uncover the hole my magnet is currently covering u could hear the air rushing in. Sounds like a faint blow torch.

I definitely have a little more control with the small hole covered. Each time its been uncovered, stove has reached upper 700° to 800's.

What is that big rectangle hole in the heatshield in the pic? I'm thinking this rectangle is the secondary air per the diagram and the description under "how your jotul f55 v2 works" section in the manual.

My paint is starting to flake in places. I don't have the rear shroud/heatshield on since its its a fireplace mount but Im starting to see some flaking/peeling in the back as well as other spots. Its weird, I woikd think the top works be flaking because of the STT ive reached but its in places that do not get as hot. I did the 3 break in fires.

Thanks!

That’s my guess the big rectangle is the unregulated secondary air. Try a magnet over 20-30% of it. I tried block off my secondary intake before the damper. I couldn’t get the balance correct. I had to pull the blower and reach back several inches. Impossible on a hot stove to do with any precision.

I still think we haven’t uncover The root cause yet. Blocking air works though

 

[EbS-P]

Better solution. Add this outside air intake and make a blast door air control.

Jotul 158208 Outside Air Adapter

Jotul 158208 Outside Air Adapter

rockymountainstove.com

 

[Todd]

That big rectangle looks too large for secondary air but I don’t know what else that could be. Could it be part of the bottom heat shield? Maybe there’s another hole near that underneath hiding? Are you still seeing secondary burn with that round hole covered? If it were my stove I’d be tearing it apart to find out how it works 😂

 

[Flashback87]

Had my second load today. First was small because my son had a soccer game and im not comfortable loading up and leaving yet.

Jotul manual says rake coals evenly throughout firebox so I tried that vs raking to front.

Unfortunately it really didn't help. I had the air control closed completely in under 10 minutes with Stt around 400° and flue where I can measure between 280-300°.

At the 45 minute mark I was hovering at 690° so I applied another magnet. Temp climbed more to 733° max so i applied another magnet. Attached is a pic of all 3 magnets applied as well as my load at 45 minutes. I may be wrong but these flames were not lazy but ripping. Also, I feel my splits are quite large too and the one in the center top is an unsplit red oak round. Maybe my issue is that I am using smaller splits on the bottom? But the smaller splits are black locust which is harder to burn. My logic with smaller on bottom is to avoid too much smoke and faster light on a coal bed start up. I attached a Pic of it loaded as well to hopefully show split size.

I'm at an hour and temp had settled to 650° so I didn't hang out in the 700's long but I would rather not even hit that. This is a bigger stove and produced good heat at 550°-650° range even in single digits. I'm measuring with infrared thermoter. The closed i am to the stove with it, the hotter it reads.

I will try bigger splits on the coal bed next time to see if that helps but feel having 3 magnets to cover holes is a little unreasonable.

Also, tried seeing if smoke entered anywhere around the stove and smoke was only entering the air controls on the bottom.

Hopefully someone can see something I may be missing.

Thanks!

Edited to add 4th pic at 80 minute mark. These flames seems lazier and 3 magnets still applied