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[oldspark]

Just this morning I had a stack temp of 450 to 500 stack (surface) while the stove top was 400, you are telling me this is not normal? I was told to double the surface mount compared to a probe type.

Sparky,

I came on this late, and please, I am only trying to learn and help, but "upon further review" of this thread, I have a couple of ?'s

Is your "stack" single wall, dbl wall, or class a ? And when you state (quoted above) that the STACK surface temp is 450-500 is this the IR or magnetic or probe temp? And since you have an IR (not that it cannot have its own source of errors) how does your IR compare to the magnetic, if that is the other type of temp probe?

Your other statement which I did not quote, is that "someone" told you to double the surface temp to get the internal temp? Surface temp of what, single wall, dbl wall, class a? IMHO that is possibly the source of the error.

Spark, honest questions without an attempt of "attitude" on my part, just curious if you could answer any of the questions quoted above and in my previous posts....

thanks

No problem, single wall, 450 to 500 temp is basicly both as the magnetic is only 30 to 50 degrees off the IR, the internal gas temp is close to double the surface temp of single wall pipe which was just discussed on one of the overfireing posts. My fires are too small for the stove top to climb after I start to close the air back, once again not monitoring flue temps on start up or reload is asking for trouble.

 

[oldspark]

yes, I was running out of patience, but it wasn't meant as an insult, spark. Only a way of saying, no amount of experience will make something happen that can't.

There is such a phobia here this season about overfiring, and expecting stoves to perform in the shoulder season as they will when temps are colder.

I'm glad to hear you've figured it out to your satisfaction, we all want happy burners here. Enjoy!

Cool, I will let you know how it works when it gets below 0! ;-)

 

[precaud]

Great. Are you in the Lake Okiboji region? I grew up in Cedar Rapids. Our band used to go up to the NW corner to play school proms back in the 60's. Of course I never saw the place in the daytime...

 

[BrotherBart]

I got lost in this thread a long time ago. But when I had a probe in the pipe in the 30 before I made come changes I had 900+ flue gas temps as the stove came up to five or six hundred every time. I have the same thing with the F3 in the basement. That is why the elbow between the 30 and the liner, and the first five feet or so of the liner, have that nice golden hue instead of the chrome looking shine of stainless steel.

As to the OP. I don't care what PE says. A stove with an airwash on the front burns around 150 degrees higher on the stove top than on the front of the stove body. Tested it with my old pre-EPA stove sitting out back year before last and also with the 30 sitting in the fireplace. So keep kicking those Summits at 800 and 900 on the front of the stove body. Welders need the income.

For Todd: Carbon steel starts the dull red glow at 900 degrees. And from experience I can tell you that the paint on the thermo and also the top of the stove go "poof" at 1145 degrees.

 

[Pagey]

I thought we established once upon a time that the gases inside a single wall were 50% higher than the magnetic thermometer's reading - not double (thus, 100% higher). E.g., the magnetic thermometer reads 400F; thus 400 x .5 = 200; 400 + 200 = 600F. Not 800F.

 

[BrotherBart]

I thought we established once upon a time that the gases inside a single wall were 50% higher than the magnetic thermometer's reading - not double (thus, 100% higher). E.g., the magnetic thermometer reads 400F; thus 400 x .5 = 200; 400 + 200 = 600F. Not 800F.

Yep. That was what somebody got in their conversation with Condar last year and part of the thermo thread referenced above.

 

[begreen]

I can not let the stove get up to 700 start up with out a very hot stack and that is the bottom line and what concerns me as other people are doing this with a lower stack temp (or os it would seem), I asked about this last spring and got the same answers but it continues to work this way at 400 stove top I have a stack temp (surface) of 450 to 500 (900 to 1000) inner so I start to reduce the air, I guess I can cut the air back less and see if the stove top temp keeps rising and the stack level off. BeGreen I am just talking about my start up temps, the way it looks now I will never see a stove top temp of 700 with out a higher stack which makes me wonder if the stove has an issue. :-S

Could be we are operating the stove differently or timing air shut down differently. Let's revisit this when we are all burning regularly. In the meantime, check your EBT to make sure it is not open all the time like Hogwildz's was. That would definitely give different results.

 

[oldspark]

I thought we established once upon a time that the gases inside a single wall were 50% higher than the magnetic thermometer's reading - not double (thus, 100% higher). E.g., the magnetic thermometer reads 400F; thus 400 x .5 = 200; 400 + 200 = 600F. Not 800F.

Yep. That was what somebody got in their conversation with Condar last year and part of the thermo thread referenced above.

I would like to know, I was corrected just the other day when I said the 50%, I can find the post as it was only a couple of days ago.

 

[begreen]

I thought we established once upon a time that the gases inside a single wall were 50% higher than the magnetic thermometer's reading - not double (thus, 100% higher). E.g., the magnetic thermometer reads 400F; thus 400 x .5 = 200; 400 + 200 = 600F. Not 800F.

Yep. That was what somebody got in their conversation with Condar last year and part of the thermo thread referenced above.

IIRC WES0999 verified this with his instrumented stove as well. In that thread he also confirmed several Hearth.com member's new Condar probe thermometers were inaccurately reporting high temps.

 

[precaud]

In reality, there is no "one temp inside, one temp outside" the pipe. On the outside, temps are lower as you move away from the pipe surface. The opposite happens inside; temps get hotter the furthest away from the inner surface, i.e. at the center. The flue gases closest to the pipe are losing more of their heat to the pipe.

 

[oldspark]

Great. Are you in the Lake Okiboji region? I grew up in Cedar Rapids. Our band used to go up to the NW corner to play school proms back in the 60's. Of course I never saw the place in the daytime...

45 miles from Lake Okaboji, great place to have fun, what was the name of your band?

 

[precaud]

Mid-to-late-60's it was The Dystilfinque (don't laugh), later changed to something more sensible, Axe. The music scene was quite vibrant in Iowa back then - lots of ballrooms, roller skating pavilions, school gyms, all booking dance bands. And Okaboji had a reputation as a pretty wild place. The more conservative the parents, the wilder the kids, I guess...

 

[iceman]

I started my stove tonight and had to back off the air rather quickly. Pine with oak again..
My external temp was under 300... my fan hadn't even turn on but I had secondaries going already so I cut the air to half way between the H -L .... 20 minutes later she was 500 so I cut more air. Put it between L - and as far it goes to the right ... now its closing in on 700 and seems to be settling ... the wood is filled to the top of the bricks .. I think the space in the stove allows higher temps compared to when its packed in ... I think when its packed in its harder to hit higher temps as quickly unless its on a hot reload ....
So, my stack temp Prolly doesnt hit those extremely high numbers because I like to shut it down as I see secondaries .. when the secondaries are going up towards the flue I try to back it down because in my mind if I don't my liner will get to hot.. sometimes I have to open it up again if I did it a little to premature...

 

[BrotherBart]

.. the wood is filled to the top of the bricks .. I think the space in the stove allows higher temps compared to when its packed in ... I think when its packed in its harder to hit higher temps as quickly unless its on a hot reload ....

By George I think he's got it. A combustion chamber for the gases rather than the secondary air just washing over the top of a pile of splits stacked too high. What a concept.

Said it before folks, burns just as long on a load that way and is a whole lot easier burn to set up, control and just go to bed.

 

[iceman]

.. the wood is filled to the top of the bricks .. I think the space in the stove allows higher temps compared to when its packed in ... I think when its packed in its harder to hit higher temps as quickly unless its on a hot reload ....

By George I think he's got it. A combustion chamber for the gases rather than the secondary air just washing over the top of a pile of splits stacked too high. What a concept.

Said it before folks, burns just as long on a load that way and is a whole lot easier burn to set up, control and just go to bed.

Lol, pe told me to pack it full... I think that's how you get long medium burns like a blaze king! Lol maybe not
If someone needs long burn times that are hot I wonder if you packed it full on 400 how that would go?

 

[BrotherBart]

Lol, pe told me to pack it full... I think that's how you get long medium burns like a blaze king! Lol maybe not
If someone needs long burn times that are hot I wonder if you packed it full on 400 how that would go?

The PE techs heat with gas. :lol:

Do what ya gotta/wanna do. Four PE hot burning owners this past season needed a welder either in their living room or at the shop. Your call.

And the stove I had before that I burned that way is sitting out back as a firebox for a meat smoker. And it was a 3/8" inch top plate 1/4" inch stove body stove too. Until a weld opened up like the Red Sea did for Moses.

Treat your stoves right, damn it, and they will treat you right for a long time.

 

[wyosioux]

I thought we established once upon a time that the gases inside a single wall were 50% higher than the magnetic thermometer's reading - not double (thus, 100% higher). E.g., the magnetic thermometer reads 400F; thus 400 x .5 = 200; 400 + 200 = 600F. Not 800F.

Yep. That was what somebody got in their conversation with Condar last year and part of the thermo thread referenced above.

I would like to know, I was corrected just the other day when I said the 50%, I can find the post as it was only a couple of days ago.

Spark, I guess my assumption may have been right? Or, maybe your assumption was right? Or, as they say, it makes a you know what out of both of us.

Anyway, for some reason, this whole conversation seems to have a lot of "over-analysis" involved in it. I have a Summit, and after the four or five good fires I have had in it so far, I have found that the greatest indicator of how my burn is evolving (whether at start up or on reload) is that see thru piece of pyro ceramic on the door. That tells me pretty much everything I need to know as to when to shut 'er down, etc. I have absolutely no complaints, but the one thing I have noticed is that if the outside air temp is not low enough, it does greatly affect performance, and I have to adjust air accordingly. I don't think there is a "cookie cutter" formula for burning as every stove and set up is unique. Watch that fire and let your experience drive your instincts instead of trying to obtain a certain temp. on stove top or stack or internal flue passage, etc.

Madison, I like your way of thinking and rationale. You were trying to get at the same thing I was missing.

Okay, now I am rambling.... just my two cents.

 

[begreen]

No, you are spot on. Too much obsessing and a need to learn and adapt to the new stove. Iceman is starting to get it. Timing of air reduction, splits size, packing, all have a bearing on this. And the understanding that a $19 thermometer may be a little over-zealously reporting temps.

 

[oldspark]

I dont think you people ever got my point and from BG's post I still think you dont, I could go back and point out my prevois posts from this spring and fall about flue temps but at this point I just dont care any more. I was correctedI by a member on the flue temp vs sensor so I thought I was wrong but I guess not, I will ask next time and make sure I have the correct info.