Radiant heat and stove suggestion for small fireplace, Insert or Freestanding?

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Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
I've been researching a lot recently. I've posted a few things. I'm trying to decide on a freestanding stove that will work in my fireplace without heavy modifications. I at first dismissed inserts as a heating source. But then I've seen people post that some of them that stick out 6-10 inches tend to radiate better than the flush mount, which makes sense. My question for you is, which would be a better set up for radiating heat (I do NOT want to use the blower, except at night):

- PE Alderlea T5 Insert, or any other insert that protrudes from the fireplace face 6-10 inches (Regency Hi2450, BK Ashford 25, etc...)
-PE Alderlea (Free standing stove) T5 installed IN the fireplace, which would leave about 11 " of the stove in front of the fireplace. (Or any stove that you can fit in my fireplace and have half of it sticking out; though it has to meet my cleaning requirements mentioned below).

-My entire goal is to heat my house without a blower (except when its 0 out then I suppose I'll have to use a blower). For example during power outages.
-I need to be able to clean the chimney without moving the stove. So that means the stove has the ability to be opened in a way to get a soot eater (or similar flex or rotary cleaning device) through the front, through the 90 degree elbow or tee, then into the stainless steel liner. It would also be nice if I am able to reach around the stove and remove the cleanout cap from the tee instead of going through the stove, though this would require a smaller stove, or widening my fireplace opening.


My house size is 1550 sq ft. But the areas I expect to heat are 1200 sq ft. Two upstairs bedrooms heat easily as the stove sits in the living room and we have cathedral ceilings. Its a cabin, so its kind of a loft area in the hallway on the 2nd floor. They heat EASILY. Obviously, the living room will be heated, as well as a fairly open floor plan to the dining/kitchen area.

I absolutely hate the background drum of fans blowing. At night while we're sleeping its no big deal, but while I'm in the space, its just more noise. We have 4 active young boys and they produce enough noise 10 times over.

If I can, I would rather have a freestander that is hearth mounted with a rear vent flue. I'd prefer a situation similar to the stove in the picture. Rear vent to a 90 degree elbow or tee. I'm eyeing a few stoves: VC Dauntless, Jotul F500 V3 Oslo, and the Hearthstone Shelburne. All 3 of those stoves I should be able to mount that way. However, an estimator is coming out in a week to verify what will work. I have a bad feeling that they'll only recommend inserts. :(

I appreciate your incite.

I'm so tired of researching and reading, I feel like my brain is mush. I assume its fairly costly to renovate a fireplace and hearth?

EDIT: If a freestanding stove is installed in a fireplace recess such as mine, where nearly half the stove (or more) is inside the fireplace, would it radiate a decent amount of heat? Or at that point does it make more sense to install a insert?

InkedNeumann Fireplace_edit.jpg nceiling.JPG nlayout1.jpg nlayout2.jpg
 
Last edited:

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,229
SE North Carolina
I would look at the the Jotul f45 too. The f500 is wider than the opening so it will have to rear vent. Might be a bit too big depending on your insulation. F45 could fit in and be top vent. Cleaning for F45 is rather involved if you don’t have a Clean out T. Read that part of the manual. Might not need ember protection for floor if that’s the case. An insert with no surround is another option.

With everything you’ve listed I’d look arc Droet 1800 insert and leave off the surround and only run blower if I need too. There are quieter fans to help circulate air Than the standard blowers. Cleans bottom up no extra floor protection. Probably +1500$ cheaper than the F500, but no tax credit.
Hearth mounted stove would be more radiant but more complicated to shop for. It’s not a great time to be shopping if you could hold off till the summer there might be more short stove options coming out like the F400??? Which would fit all your specs.

you have a unique list of wants/needs that will not make shopping fun but I think what you want is out there.
Evan
 

Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
I would look at the the Jotul f45 too. The f500 is wider than the opening so it will have to rear vent. Might be a bit too big depending on your insulation. F45 could fit in and be top vent. Cleaning for F45 is rather involved if you don’t have a Clean out T. Read that part of the manual. Might not need ember protection for floor if that’s the case. An insert with no surround is another option.

you have a unique list of wants/needs that will not make shopping fun but I think what you want is out there.
Evan


Haha, It's definitely a unique issue. I looked into the Jotul F45 and I actually love it. But I have a couple issues with it,, and any other stove that would be installed in the fireplace recess. Am I going to be restricting the radiant heat enough with those types of installations so that it just makes more sense to have an insert?

Also with the F45, from what I've been told, cleaning from the bottom up through that stove is impossible. The top would need to be removed, and in my situation, its impossible as it would be recessed. There' s a part on the back that needs to be removed to remove the top and the bolts are on the back of the stove.

Fortunately, we've made it since Christmas on our heat pump and no stove, so I'm sure we can wait for summer to buy a stove. But I like to have all my research done.
 
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kennyp2339

Minister of Fire
Feb 16, 2014
5,947
07462
A radiant stove installed in a fireplace without sticking out wont work as well, the masonry will absorb a lot of heat, thats why inserts are made with a convective jacket so there is a heat transfer that warms the air and get blown out.
If i was going to be fully reliant on a radiant stove alone with no blower, I'd go with the king of radiant stoves : woodstock soap stone co.
Welcome to Woodstock Soapstone (woodstove.com)
 

Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
A radiant stove installed in a fireplace without sticking out wont work as well, the masonry will absorb a lot of heat, thats why inserts are made with a convective jacket so there is a heat transfer that warms the air and get blown out.
If i was going to be fully reliant on a radiant stove alone with no blower, I'd go with the king of radiant stoves : woodstock soap stone co.
Welcome to Woodstock Soapstone (woodstove.com)

I do love their stoves, however, none of their offerings fit my situation... And I'm referring to a free standing stove partially inside a fireplace recess. So roughly half of it sticking out.
 

Das Jugghead

Burning Hunk
Jan 2, 2019
155
Indiana
I've been researching a lot recently. I've posted a few things. I'm trying to decide on a freestanding stove that will work in my fireplace without heavy modifications. I at first dismissed inserts as a heating source. But then I've seen people post that some of them that stick out 6-10 inches tend to radiate better than the flush mount, which makes sense. My question for you is, which would be a better set up for radiating heat (I do NOT want to use the blower, except at night):

- PE Alderlea T5 Insert, or any other insert that protrudes from the fireplace face 6-10 inches (Regency Hi2450, BK Ashford 25, etc...)
-PE Alderlea (Free standing stove) T5 installed IN the fireplace, which would leave about 11 " of the stove in front of the fireplace. (Or any stove that you can fit in my fireplace and have half of it sticking out; though it has to meet my cleaning requirements mentioned below).

-My entire goal is to heat my house without a blower (except when its 0 out then I suppose I'll have to use a blower). For example during power outages.
-I need to be able to clean the chimney without moving the stove. So that means the stove has the ability to be opened in a way to get a soot eater (or similar flex or rotary cleaning device) through the front, through the 90 degree elbow or tee, then into the stainless steel liner. It would also be nice if I am able to reach around the stove and remove the cleanout cap from the tee instead of going through the stove, though this would require a smaller stove, or widening my fireplace opening.


My house size is 1550 sq ft. But the areas I expect to heat are 1200 sq ft. Two upstairs bedrooms heat easily as the stove sits in the living room and we have cathedral ceilings. Its a cabin, so its kind of a loft area in the hallway on the 2nd floor. They heat EASILY. Obviously, the living room will be heated, as well as a fairly open floor plan to the dining/kitchen area.

I absolutely hate the background drum of fans blowing. At night while we're sleeping its no big deal, but while I'm in the space, its just more noise. We have 4 active young boys and they produce enough noise 10 times over.

If I can, I would rather have a freestander that is hearth mounted with a rear vent flue. I'd prefer a situation similar to the stove in the picture. Rear vent to a 90 degree elbow or tee. I'm eyeing a few stoves: VC Dauntless, Jotul F500 V3 Oslo, and the Hearthstone Shelburne. All 3 of those stoves I should be able to mount that way. However, an estimator is coming out in a week to verify what will work. I have a bad feeling that they'll only recommend inserts. :(

I appreciate your incite.

I'm so tired of researching and reading, I feel like my brain is mush. I assume its fairly costly to renovate a fireplace and hearth?

EDIT: If a freestanding stove is installed in a fireplace recess such as mine, where nearly half the stove (or more) is inside the fireplace, would it radiate a decent amount of heat? Or at that point does it make more sense to install a insert?

View attachment 273649 View attachment 273650 View attachment 273651 View attachment 273652

I have done what you are considering doing. It takes a fair amount of extra work but it can be made to function. I highly recommend insulating the fireplace. I use a small fan to move air past my mantel simply because the mantel is not far enough away from the stove.

 

Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
I have done what you are considering doing. It takes a fair amount of extra work but it can be made to function. I highly recommend insulating the fireplace. I use a small fan to move air past my mantel simply because the mantel is not far enough away from the stove.


Are you referring to installing a stove partially inside a fireplace?
 

EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
The cast iron surround on the T5 makes it a convective heater. You may want to look at this stove without the CI jacket. Check out the Super 27.
 

Das Jugghead

Burning Hunk
Jan 2, 2019
155
Indiana
Are you referring to installing a stove partially inside a fireplace?

Mine is installed mostly inside the fireplace because the flue goes out the top and I did not have the option with my stove for the flue to exit the rear. If you can have your stove partially out of the fireplace you will benefit from that. If we stay in this house after our son graduates I will replace the current stove with a rear exit flue stove in order to have it partially out on the hearth.
 
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Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
The cast iron surround on the T5 makes it a convective heater. You may want to look at this stove without the CI jacket. Check out the Super 27.

My wife hates the steel stoves. Its Cast Iron or nothing for her. ::P

Is the "convection" a bad thing? I apologize, my science is a little....lacking.
 

illini81

Feeling the Heat
Apr 7, 2017
376
Southeastern CT
I cannot hear the blower on my insert unless I am standing a foot or two away from it and am "trying" to hear it. It is incredibly quiet. Whenever I tell people there is a blower on my insert, they are surprised.

My sense is that that is true for many of the more expensive inserts.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
My wife hates the steel stoves. Its Cast Iron or nothing for her. ::P

Is the "convection" a bad thing? I apologize, my science is a little....lacking.

Not at all. I have a T5. The cast iron surround is going to mute the radiant nature of the steel stove inside. I can stand inches away from the stove side and still have leg hair. It's often referred to as soft heat. You'll still get radiant out the glass. The blower makes a big difference in getting the heat into the room.
 
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DBoon

Minister of Fire
Jan 14, 2009
1,253
Central NY
I know you don't want a stove with a blower, but if you are going to put it inside a fireplace (partway), you'll probably want a blower.

A good option for this is a Lopi Answer. It's a good stove, and I think the newer model has a blower that is pretty quiet. It's a double-jacketed stove so the heat is moved around the stove pretty well by the blower.
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,229
SE North Carolina
I would you probably go with an insert and then solve the noisy fan issue. Via some kind of duct/ plenum and fan that sits off to the side of the fireplace. With four boys and house full of projects a hearth renovation isn’t something I would want to take on. Insert are what are engineered for your space. But that’s just me.
Evan
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,638
South Puget Sound, WA
The T5 freestanding stove flue collar is 29 3/4". PE fans are fairly quiet, especially on low speed.
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
1,229
SE North Carolina
If you have enough room you can set one of these on top. They are silent.

KINDEN Wood Stove Fan 5-Blade - Heat Powered Fireplace Fans for Log Burner Ultra Quiet with Stove Thermometer (Aluminium Black) Patent Pending
by KINDEN
Learn more: Amazon product
 
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DBoon

Minister of Fire
Jan 14, 2009
1,253
Central NY
The heat-driven fans are quiet but they don't move nearly as much air as a blower.
 

Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
If you have enough room you can set one of these on top. They are silent.

KINDEN Wood Stove Fan 5-Blade - Heat Powered Fireplace Fans for Log Burner Ultra Quiet with Stove Thermometer (Aluminium Black) Patent Pending
by KINDEN
Learn more: Amazon product

Ah! I have seen these. I’ll end up getting one to try. I’ve heard mixed things about them though.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
89,638
South Puget Sound, WA
The heat-driven fans are quiet but they don't move nearly as much air as a blower.
Correct, they don't move the hot air from the convection jacket that surrounds the firebox in an insert. That air is substantially hotter.
 

Russn77

New Member
Jan 20, 2021
63
North Central Ohio
I've updated our searching needs with a new thread:




I appreciate the input from all of you.