Radiant heat vs convection for heating home

[Theroge]

Hello!

As many other first time posters I have lurked on this forum for all things woodstove/wood/heat for the past few months as I navigate our new Maine home. We current live in a 2,400sq foot home with forced hot air traditionally but there was an older Kent Tile fire that was in great shape and I’ve been using it to heat the home to pretty good success. It heats the home minus the “fireplace” room on the end of the house where we watch TV. It’s not the most efficient stove and we are looking to be able to watch TV without it being 55 degrees and the use of a heated blanket! For reference my house is long , with the Kent on one side of the house and the purposed new woodstove on an exterior wall existing fireplace on the exact other end of the home. The room also has a wall of windows that we are looking to get insulated blinds for to make them more efficient. Picture also below. The fireplace is 50” by 40” and the hearth is 40” by 100” (in front of the fireplace) fireplace box is 30” deep at the deepest point, and the back wall is 28” wide at its narrowest.

My question has two layers, one about some differences in radiant heat wood stoves and convection wood stoves. In a large room with 14 foot ceilings could I blow myself out of the room with a Jotul Oslo f500 v3 or a Jotul Carrabassett? Or should I think about something like the Hearthstone Mansfield for a gentler heat? The room is about 350 square feet and we ideally would heat the whole home with that woodstove, and use the Kent Tile Fire only to heat the one or two rooms if it got super cold. The Oslo says in my zone it would heat about 1,800 to 2,000ish square feet, and the Mansfield would probably do something like 2,250 assuming? I used the Jotul zone info in the brochure. I want something that is efficient, and can heat the whole home on a mild winter day without the use of the other stove.

The other side to my question is about how convection and radiant heat interact with the fireplace mass. Do they both heat up the fireplace and the fireplace stores the heat? Or would I be able to get the heat moving down to the other end of the house easier with one type of stove over the other?

Thank you in advance for any help. I truly appreciate reading all the posts and info that everyone in this community has provided. It has been a life saver for correct burning technique and stove brand make model information. Also the tv stand isn’t permanent… it’s going to move somewhere else.

Roge

 

[all night moe]

A couple of tricks to try before a second stove purchase.

1 Use of the ceiling fan in the TV room. On low speed and turning clockwise.
2 Use an 8'' sized low cfm fan on the floor, to help move the cold air towards existing stove.

 

[EbS-P]

How does the fireplace room connect to the rest of the house?

I have an F400 in a fireplace. It’s an interior chimney. It sits in the middle of about 600 sq ft. It’s a nice balance of heating up he masonry and stone and radiant heating the sitting area in front. It needs a blower to move heat well.

I also have an insert downstairs. Larger firebox.

I am assuming that is an exterior chimney. With a stove a good bit of heat will go right through the outside unless the stove is sitting out I. From and you make some type of insulated heat shield to keep the heat in the house. This is not a problem with the insert just get rockwool board and insulate around it.

You really don’t want an F500 v3. It doesn’t have a good reputation. The F45 would be a much better fit.

I think you will be happier with more convective stove as opposed to a radiant one in that size of room. Don’t over look the inserts. They work well. Blowers are quiet but not silent

 

[Theroge]

A couple of tricks to try before a second stove purchase.

1 Use of the ceiling fan in the TV room. On low speed and turning clockwise.
2 Use an 8'' sized low cfm fan on the floor, to help move the cold air towards existing stove.

I currently don't have a wood stove in the TV room with the fireplace. Ideally, I can get a new stove, that is more efficient, and stop using the Kent Tile Fire I currently have. But I do currently use a ceiling fan/box fans to move the heat around the house with the Kent, like it said it works okay, but it doesn't heat the whole house above 62. I need a bigger stove I believe.

How does the fireplace room connect to the rest of the house?

Through one door, with a bit of a maze turn turn to get into the next room. Renovations are coming to open up a large 10 foot wide opening into the next room to be able to get heat in the next room better.

I think you will be happier with more convective stove as opposed to a radiant one in that size of room. Don’t over look the inserts. They work well. Blowers are quiet but not silent

From what I understood, convection doesn't work well if the ceilings are above 10 feet? I think my ceilings are 15 feet and ideally I can keep the heat "low" so I can get the air moving into the next room through a 7' height opening. Would a convection stove be able to keep the heat "away" from the exterior fireplace easier than a radiant stove with heat shields? I struggle with how each type of stove would be able to move the heat from one room to another as well!

 

[EbS-P]

The heat will pool at the top of the vaulted ceiling with either type of stove. You will need a fan to help stir it up. It’s much easier to move cold air to the stove than hot air away so be thinking about that might be accomplished.

All the stoves on my the top of my list are more convective. There are not many all cast iron or un-shielded stoves out here.

I would focus more on how to move cold air to the stove room as that will be your biggest challenge and have the largest impact on your overall comfort in the house. Second focus on a a list of good burning stoves. Then decide between radiant or convective.

At 40” high you have lots of options. A top vent stove like a PE T5 or t6 would look great. Yes you will loose some heat to the outside and probably could use a small fan to help move heat out of the fireplace. I use this on the floor behind my F400. Completely silent up to speed 3 at 3 ft away. It has a a temp controller so you can find a good place to put the sensor and it turns it self on and off.
AC Infinity AIRBLAZE T12, Universal Fireplace Blower Fan Kit 12" with Temperature and Speed Controller, Compatible with Lennox, Hearth Glo, Majestic, Rotom Fireplaces, for Home Heat Circulation https://a.co/d/eNIsHSV

 

[begreen]

Through one door, with a bit of a maze turn turn to get into the next room. Renovations are coming to open up a large 10 foot wide opening into the next room to be able to get heat in the next room better.

How large will the living room and the adjacent area be when this is done? How well insulated is it? Does the masonry face of the fireplace continue to the outdoors or is this a veneer with an insulated stud wall behind it?

So far, it looks like a medium-sized stove in the 2 cu ft range will do the trick. I recommend a convective stove with a blower installed in the fireplace with a block-off plate in the damper area.

 

[Theroge]

How large will the living room and the adjacent area be when this is done? How well insulated is it? Does the masonry face of the fireplace continue to the outdoors or is this a veneer with an insulated stud wall behind it?

So far, it looks like a medium-sized stove in the 2 cu ft range will do the trick. I recommend a convective stove with a blower installed in the fireplace with a block-off plate in the damper area.

The opening will create about a 700sq ft area, with a 10" opening between two 350sq ft rooms. I do like the idea of a Convection, the Kent Tile Fire is one, and I like how gentle the heat is.

The Masonry face is in front of a insulated stud wall, and just the inner brick is the only face that is exterior. That's what I initially thought of just getting getting some heat reflective plates for the inside of the fireplace to reflect the heat without the use of a blower. The installing company does an insulated block off plate for the damper area so I think that should be good enough to stop most of the heat from going up the chimney.

At 40” high you have lots of options. A top vent stove like a PE T5 or t6 would look great.

Looking a the stats for that stove, PE T5, it seems like the emissions on that are 3X what the Heartstone Mansfield are, My wife and I really want to be as efficient as possible....But I have heard a lot of people mention that PE T5 and T6 stove a lot positively. Not sure if its just a few people banging a loud drum or they are really amazing stoves.

 

[Max W]

Moving heat from a room with a 14 ft high ceiling to the rest of your house with more standard ceilings is fighting the physics of it. If, as it looks, the highest point is at the wall with the large windows that seems to me to make it a bigger challenge. I picture the heat naturally rising up along the pitched ceiling dropping down past the cold windows and cooling as it goes although the ceiling fan can short circuit that some. The window coverings will also help and make a big difference in room comfort but from where I sit I don’t see a good way move that heat to the rest of the house.

Would it be more effective to put a larger stove where the Tile Fire is and move the Tile fire to the room with the tv.? That could raise the rest of the house to something more comfortable than 62 and help make with moving heat to the additional room. The Tile Fire is not a radiant stove but should provide that extra heat on the colder days and nights. I had one and used it in our walk out basement as a back up to our main stove. While I no longer live there it is now doing well as the main stove in that same house.

When it comes to heating capabilities of your next stove pay attention to firebox size and rated btu’s rather than square footage statements.

Edit: missed a couple of posts in between. Also the Tile Fire has height of 27 “.

 

[begreen]

The opening will create about a 700sq ft area, with a 10" opening between two 350sq ft rooms.

The high ceiling increases the cubic footage being heated. A 2 cu ft stove will work well.

Any stove that passes the 2020 EPA requirements is clean burning. There will be more variance in the day-to-day operation and wood species than a lab test can indicate. It's like the EPA ratings for gas mileage. One person might get the EPA rated 30mpg while another hypermiler may get 35 and a lead foot only gets 20 mpg.

The PE T5 does not have a catalyst on the exhaust to clean up the final 2-3% emissions but it is a clean burning stove that missed qualifying for the >75% HHV tax credit by 1%. Its heat is soft, somewhat like the Kent and it is a very low-maintenance stove.

How tall would you guess it is from the top of the fireplace lintel to the chimney top?

 

[begreen]

Would it be more effective to put a larger stove where the Tile Fire is and move the Tile fire to the room with the tv.? That could raise the rest of the house to something more comfortable than 62 and help make with moving heat to the additional room. The Tile Fire is not a radiant stove but should provide that extra heat on the colder days and nights. I had one and used it in our walk out basement as a back up to our main stove. While I no longer live there it is now doing well as the main stove in that same house.

That's an intriguing thought. Good suggestion. Swapping the Tile Fire with a 3 cu ft stove would make a notable improvement.

 

[Theroge]

Moving heat from a room with a 14 ft high ceiling to the rest of your house with more standard ceilings is fighting the physics of it.

Ha problem is the room that my Kent Tile Fire is in is the same height, the rooms between, the kitchen and upstairs rooms, are the only "standard" height ceilings. The Kent also has a wall of windows in it as well, just only half the size. I feel like if I can get air to move around the house from that room with the tall ceilings, I can get air to move around the other room.

That's an intriguing thought. Good suggestion. Swapping the Tile Fire with a 3 cu ft stove would make a notable improvement.

I feel like I would get blown out of the current woodstove room if I make that stove any bigger. That room is about 230sq ft, with the stove smack dab in the middle along a wall. I do like the idea of switching them though, but like I said, I would rather not use that Kent at all, or a backup backup, rather than the main stove I sit in front of while I watch TV/entertain.

 

[Theroge]

I just did a quick mock-up of my house that may help explain. The bottom of the picture, is all southern exposure with almost every room having a full wall of glass. I added in the current doorways with "RED X's" and the giant red X is the proposed area where we would knock down the wall and create a large opening.

 

[begreen]

That is definitely a sprawling floorplan. What section has the 2nd floor and where are the stairs to it?

 

[Theroge]

That is definitely a sprawling floorplan. What section has the 2nd floor and where are the stairs to it?

The purple area in the center is the 2 story, with 3 bedrooms and a bath on the second floor. The stairs are in the fireplace room, on the north east corner, just above the current entrance into the fireplace room. Like I said, I can heat the whole house with the Kent, but just not the Fireplace room. So I feel like a bigger stove, with that large opening added, will create a great way for the heat to travel straight through the whole house.

 

[qwee]

Your house is so 'wild/outdoorsy' looking. Your fireplace looks nice . A wood stove or pellet stove would work but you could also consider a retrofit on your fireplace to turn it into a masonry heater. Obviously, the foundation is already there. Masonry heaters are more on the radiant side so they work well in houses with high ceilings. Might be expensive.

You could run it by Albie @ https://mainewoodheat.com/author/albieb/. He is in Maine, too. You never know. He knows quite a bit. See the The Schultz Heater when you open his site. I think this was a fireplace conversion.

 

[BillBurns]

Too much glass can make heating a real challenge.

 

[Woody Stover]

the rooms between, the kitchen and upstairs rooms, are the only "standard" height ceilings

Like 8', or how much height between the tops of the doorways and the ceilings?
My MIL's old house had 9.5' ceilings but a grate above the transom leading to the hallway with the bedrooms allowed heat to move better. I had an 8" fan on the floor at the end of the hallway, on low, moving cool air back toward the stove room.

 

[paredown]

Too much glass can make heating a real challenge.

Our house resembles this remark. We are also fighting the cathedral ceiling issue -- I have a fan sitting here waiting for someone to install it (Ahem...) to try to see if we can mix up the stratification a little. I figure it can't hurt!

 

[Woody Stover]

try to see if we can mix up the stratification a little. I figure it can't hurt!

Yep, you just have to try different things and see what works.
At my MIL's the stove room was small but had two doorways into the living/dining room, and the grated transom in the doorway from there to the bedroom hallway. I didn't run the ceiling fan in the stove room because I wanted the warm air stratified to the top of the room, then moving out the tops of the two doorways. That kept the temp at sitting level in the stove room tolerable. The Buck 91 Bay threw big heat and I wanted to keep that as high in the small stove room as possible (not tall ceilings in there.)