Received bid for new stove

[WoodyIsGoody]

My ski cabin is a 45 minute drive from the nearest population center and only has baseboard heat and a stove that needs new firebrick and some welding to fix sagging firebrick supports so I'm looking at new stoves. There is 13' of 6" single wall pipe rising straight to the ceiling where it connects to 6" SS insulated flue and continues another 8 feet where it goes through an upper story eave and terminates above the roofline (to code as far as I can tell). Last year when I cleaned it, it appeared to be in very good condition with no signs of wear/corrosion or other problems developing.

So I went to the closest Blaze King dealer to get a quote for the purchase/install of a Chinook 30 with fan kit and optional painted sides. They sent a guy out to provide a bid for a new stove install and a mini-split heat pump (since they are also a Daikin dealer). The Blaze King dealer is not a little mom/pop stove shop but a HVAC company that does commercial as well as residential. The bidder measured and photographed and didn't raise any red flags or concerns. I said I wanted to replace the 13' of single wall with double wall. Two weeks later I received a bid for a Mitsubishi mini-split (I asked for a LV series Daikin).

I also received a bid for the stove with the following statements that I did not anticipate:

SCOPE OF WORK
- Disconnect and remove existing freestanding wood stove in Living Room area
- Install a new freestanding wood stove in the same location
- Install the fan kit, connect to existing electrical or new outlet provided by others.
- Homeowner to make final venting connections from unit to existing stove pipe.
- Unit set up and trim included.

- New wood stoves are not meant to be attached to existing chimney/flue systems, LSM will not make final connections to existing chimney pipe. If connected to existing chimney/flue the manufacturer's warranty will be voided.

What's going on here? His e-mail provides this helpful explanation:

A homeowner can make the final connection of the vent pipe but we cannot, for liability reasons. I hope that’s not confusing.

Is that normal?

The bid came out to $4598.00 plus $200 to wire an outlet (plus tax). Maybe he didn't notice there is an outlet in the stone tile surround about where the middle of the stove will be (this is a corner install). He included an optional ash drawer (that I don't want) and he forgot to break out the price of the optional red sides (as I asked him to do).

This seems pretty expensive since they are not going to do any flue work. It sounds like they will just unbox it, assemble it and plop it where my old stove is. I can do that, I wanted a professional install!

Thoughts?

 

[bholler]

This seems pretty expensive since they are not going to do any flue work. It sounds like they will just unbox it, assemble it and plop it where my old stove is.

Well that is all that needs done I am not sure what more you would want them to do. As far as not hooking up the pipe that is one the stranger things I have heard. I would ask them cite where it says that a new stove cant go on an old chimney.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Well that is all that needs done I am not sure what more you would want them to do. As far as not hooking up the pipe that is one the stranger things I have heard. I would ask them cite where it says that a new stove cant go on an old chimney.

And that'll void the factory warranty?

I'd shop around, personally.

 

[Allagash350]

If you had them replace the single wall with double as you said wouldn't they not be hooking it up to the existing chimney? Or am I missing something?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

My ski cabin is a 45 minute drive from the nearest population center and only has baseboard heat and a stove that needs new firebrick and some welding to fix sagging firebrick supports so I'm looking at new stoves. There is 13' of 6" single wall pipe rising straight to the ceiling where it connects to 6" SS insulated flue and continues another 8 feet where it goes through an upper story eave and terminates above the roofline (to code as far as I can tell). Last year when I cleaned it, it appeared to be in very good condition with no signs of wear/corrosion or other problems developing.

So I went to the closest Blaze King dealer to get a quote for the purchase/install of a Chinook 30 with fan kit and optional painted sides. They sent a guy out to provide a bid for a new stove install and a mini-split heat pump (since they are also a Daikin dealer). The Blaze King dealer is not a little mom/pop stove shop but a HVAC company that does commercial as well as residential. The bidder measured and photographed and didn't raise any red flags or concerns. I said I wanted to replace the 13' of single wall with double wall. Two weeks later I received a bid for a Mitsubishi mini-split (I asked for a LV series Daikin).

I also received a bid for the stove with the following statements that I did not anticipate:

SCOPE OF WORK
- Disconnect and remove existing freestanding wood stove in Living Room area
- Install a new freestanding wood stove in the same location
- Install the fan kit, connect to existing electrical or new outlet provided by others.
- Homeowner to make final venting connections from unit to existing stove pipe.
- Unit set up and trim included.

- New wood stoves are not meant to be attached to existing chimney/flue systems, LSM will not make final connections to existing chimney pipe. If connected to existing chimney/flue the manufacturer's warranty will be voided.

What's going on here? His e-mail provides this helpful explanation:

A homeowner can make the final connection of the vent pipe but we cannot, for liability reasons. I hope that’s not confusing.

Is that normal?

The bid came out to $4598.00 plus $200 to wire an outlet (plus tax). Maybe he didn't notice there is an outlet in the stone tile surround about where the middle of the stove will be (this is a corner install). He included an optional ash drawer (that I don't want) and he forgot to break out the price of the optional red sides (as I asked him to do).

This seems pretty expensive since they are not going to do any flue work. It sounds like they will just unbox it, assemble it and plop it where my old stove is. I can do that, I wanted a professional install!

Thoughts?

If I had few other choices, I'd go back and clarify with them. See what happens and judge their character. I'd ask, "what's the deal with your proposal excluding the final connection?

If I had other options, I'd check them out first. I'm a skeptic and very frugal, so anything I can do myself, I do myself. Then there is only one person to blame if something goes wrong.

 

[Dmitry]

If I had other options, I'd check them out first. I'm a skeptic and very frugal, so anything I can do myself, I do myself. Then there is only one person to blame if something goes wrong.

I agree. Can you just get it in your truck , do some research and install yourself? Without help of "professional"

 

[bholler]

Then there is only one person to blame if something goes wrong.

Yeah but it is also your problem and your problem alone. Not saying there is anything wrong with diy but there are trade offs. That being said these guys sound like knuckleheads.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

If you had them replace the single wall with double as you said wouldn't they not be hooking it up to the existing chimney? Or am I missing something?

The new double wall pipe would need to be connected to the existing insulated SS pipe where it exits the ceiling. When the guy was on-site he mentioned the single wall pipe looked fine. I said Blaze King recommends a double wall pipe for performance reasons. He looked a little out of his element but I thought I was going to get a bid that included replacement of the single wall with double wall.

Is there certification required? Maybe their wood stove guy quit?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I agree. Can you just get it in your truck , do some research and install yourself? Without help of "professional"

I considered it but I'm busy with other things and time is money.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Yeah but it is also your problem and your problem alone. Not saying there is anything wrong with diy but there are trade offs. That being said these guys sound like knuckleheads.

I'm sure the op knows many knuckleh, I mean friends, that'll help install install it for beer and pizza next to a fire pit. Granted that all knuckleheads aren't created equal, but you are only trying to accurately place a heavy object, that becomes less heavy when firebricks, doors, baffles, etc are removed.

 

[bholler]

I'm sure the op knows many knuckleh, I mean friends, that'll help install install it for beer and pizza next to a fire pit. Granted that all knuckleheads aren't created equal, but you are only trying to accurately place a heavy object, that becomes less heavy when firebricks, doors, baffles, etc are removed.

Agreed in this case I don't see much reason to have it installed by a pro it is just setting it in place really. The only problem could be dropping the stove. We had a guy that bought a stove from us and didn't have us install it (which we wont do anymore) he picked it up and came back about an hour later and had obviously dropped it off the tailgate and wanted us to replace it because it was damaged. But generally it is pretty straight forward.

Is there certification required? Maybe their wood stove guy quit?

In most areas no there is no requirement for certification. And honestly the certification doesn't guarantee anything anyway but it is a good start.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I rented a U-Haul trailer for the last stove I bought. A ramp door and half a foot off the ground made it pretty easy to haul around.


I brought the 30 home in the bed of the pickup. I can't remember how I got it down. I probably backed it up to a retaining wall that's about the same height as the bed. I re member it was tough getting it down the stairs to the basement.

My other stoves were smaller/lighter and easier to move around.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

In most areas no there is no requirement for certification. And honestly the certification doesn't guarantee anything anyway but it is a good start.

I don't have unrealistic expectations what "certified" means. But if the dealer's business insurance requires it, and they don't have anyone currently certified, that could explain why they are making excuses to not actually install it.

If I had known they just wanted to deliver and unbox it, I wouldn't have troubled them to begin with. I'm quite experienced at moving things bigger and heavier than a woodstove. But there was no indication of this until I received the bid.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I considered it but I'm busy with other things and time is money.

I've always disliked the stupid "time is money" bs. Get your priorities straight. Stop spending time on this website, with your family and friends, sleeping, etc., and just install it yourself. I mean, seriously, the time you've spent getting the quote, then whining about it here when you yourself recognized bs, you'd be 3/4 of the way done by now.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I've always disliked the stupid "time is money" bs. Get your priorities straight. Stop spending time on this website, with your family and friends, sleeping, etc., and just install it yourself. I mean, seriously, the time you've spent getting the quote, then whining about it here when you yourself recognized bs, you'd be 3/4 of the way done by now.

Who are you to say what my priorities are? I happen to like spending time with my family and friends, sleeping, and, yes, here too. I've learned quite a bit here and it's been very helpful in selecting my next stove. I am going to manage and oversee the install of my next stove, that takes time and knowledge (some of which I've gained here). But that's not to imply I have to do the whole thing! I have more ways to make more money than I can shake a stick at and there are other things I'd rather be doing than installing my next stove. I've been there and done that a number of times.

I often make or lose 10's of thousands of dollars a day and I do well by keeping close to the computer and not too distracted. This is something I know about my personal situation that you couldn't know anything about. I am not you so don't pretend like you know what's best for me.

Get off your high horse and sit back while I send a few dollars to people who have made stoves their livelihood. But maybe not to the current bidder, I'll have to see what the situation is. In the meantime you can quit whining about how others run their personal lives.

Thanks to everyone who provided useful feedback. It is reassuring to know this isn't exactly normal.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Who are you to say what my priorities are? I happen to like spending time with my family and friends, sleeping, and, yes, here too. I've learned quite a bit here and it's been very helpful in selecting my next stove. I am going to manage and oversee the install of my next stove, that takes time and knowledge (some of which I've gained here). But that's not to imply I have to do the whole thing! I have more ways to make more money than I can shake a stick at and there are other things I'd rather be doing than installing my next stove. I've been there and done that a number of times.

I often make or lose 10's of thousands of dollars a day and I do well by keeping close to the computer and not too distracted. This is something I know about my personal situation that you couldn't know anything about. I am not you so don't pretend like you know what's best for me.

Get off your high horse and sit back while I send a few dollars to people who have made stoves their livelihood. But maybe not to the current bidder, I'll have to see what the situation is. In the meantime you can quit whining about how others run their personal lives.

Thanks to everyone who provided useful feedback. It is reassuring to know this isn't exactly normal.

I was just busting balls. I thought the part about not sleeping or spending time with friends and family would give it away. I, nor anyone else here, really cares how you spend your time or money, it's all yours to do with what you like. I'm here to have some fun, learn a little, maybe share an insight or two. Please don't take it so personal, I'd have said the same thing to a good friend and had a good laugh with them about it. Apologies if I offended.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Apologies if I offended.

It's pretty hard for a stranger to offend me. A friend, yes, but not a stranger. I'm a straight shooter and I'm gonna call BS when I see BS.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

OK. So I sent my reply to their bid. Told them I didn't want to void the stove warranty before I even had my first fire in it and asked what my options were.

 

[bholler]

OK. So I sent my reply to their bid. Told them I didn't want to void the stove warranty before I even had my first fire in it and asked what my options were.

Did you ask them to tell you where in the manufacturers instructions it says that hooking it to an old chimney would void the warranty?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Did you ask them to tell you where in the manufacturers instructions it says that hooking it to an old chimney would void the warranty?

No, I said I didn't want to void the new stove warranty and asked them what I needed to do to retain it.

 

[bholler]

No, I said I didn't want to void the new stove warranty and asked them what I needed to do to retain it.

ok I am just curious what reason they would give.

 

[patrickoneal]

Can you share what kind of price you got on the mini-split? I'm set up with a Daikin dealer, so I can give you some numbers on my actual cost, or at least let you know if you're getting ripped off. HVAC companies typically have a very high markup on equipment. I've seriously seen prices 100% higher than what I get and I'm small time.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Can you share what kind of price you got on the mini-split? I'm set up with a Daikin dealer, so I can give you some numbers on my actual cost, or at least let you know if you're getting ripped off. HVAC companies typically have a very high markup on equipment. I've seriously seen prices 100% higher than what I get and I'm small time.

Not yet because I asked for a bid on a 12K Daikin LV series but received a bid on a Mitsubishi.

Go figure!

 

[begreen]

Not yet because I asked for a bid on a 12K Daikin LV series but received a bid on a Mitsubishi.

Go figure!

In that size Mitsubishi and Fujitsu also make good units. All are sold locally.

 

[patrickoneal]

Well, for reference, my pricing is as follows(with a bit of rounding):

Condenser RXS12LVJU $830
Wall Mount Indoor Unit FTXS12LVJU $340

You can figure some markup above that, sales tax, and then the copper lineset, drain hose or pipe, cable between the indoor and outdoor sections, pad and risers for the condenser or a wall mount bracket for the condenser, and other incidentals. And, of course, labor. If it's a simple install, these things aren't labor intensive(but they can be if the layout is screwed up).

If you've looked into it, it's pretty much mounting a template on the interior wall, anchoring the bracket, boring a hole to the exterior, mounting the exterior condenser, running the line set and cable between the two, flaring and making the connections, and vacuuming down to 500 microns, opening the valves and starting it up.

On a simple install it can be more work put in the electric circuit outside for the condenser.