Recommendations for 25 x 30 cabin

[stoichiometry]

Hello there,

I am looking at purchasing a nearly new looking jotul combifire 4 woodstove for a 25 x 30 cabin. Is this a good idea? [My wife and I weekend at the cabin during the winter and are looking to stay warm -- we get really cold weather plus lake effect snow ...].

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Kindly,
M

 

[DanCorcoran]

Google the stove name. The first thing that pops up is links to 4 articles on this website about that stove.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

A couple things to consider. I have a cabin on Schroon Lake that may have some of the issues that you will.

Will you be keeping the cabin warm all the time? Are you looking to heat the entire cabin? Taking even a small room (in an unisulated or close to it cabin) from around 10 degrees up to 50's to 60's isn't easy to do without an oversized stove in a reasonable amount of time. If you are talking about lake effect, do you have to deal with wind off a lake which makes it even harder? For example, in my cabin, I have a 12x16 foot front room. It's the only room I heat in the winter. I've used 30,000 btu to HOLD a mid 50s temp due to wind. This is an insane amount of heat for such a small room, but it is what is required. Drop the wind and I only need half the heat to hold the temp much higher.

The Jotul combis are big cast iron stoves. They will hold heat well, but steel will radiate heat faster. Something to think about if coming into a cold cabin. Maybe you are comfortable lighting it then going out onto the ice to drill holes for fishing. The cabin will still be cold when you get back.

I think you might want to consider a newer stove due to space and fuel requirements. An older stove will require 3 feet clearance on the back and sides. When you map out the amount of space you loose with that, it's quite a bit. Newer stoves have lower clearance to combustibles. You can set the stove closer to the wall or furniture closer to the sides. As for fuel requirements, higher efficiency stoves use less fuel. Physically getting the temp up to a livable level will be faster and require less wood, which means less wood storage, etc.


HTH,
Matt

 

[Treacherous]

This is one of the reasons I bought my Endeavor (Rated: 1,200 to 2,000 Sq. Feet) which is oversized for my cabin space of around 800 square feet.

I drain everything out when I am gone but I can often enter cabin during winter where it is 25-30 degrees inside the cabin. If I lived in cabin year round I could have probably gotten away with something smaller.

Taking even a small room (in an unisulated or close to it cabin) from around 10 degrees up to 50's to 60's isn't easy to do without an oversized stove in a reasonable amount of time. If you are talking about lake effect, do you have to deal with wind off a lake which makes it even harder? For example, in my cabin, I have a 12x16 foot front room. It's the only room I heat in the winter. I've used 30,000 btu to HOLD a mid 50s temp due to wind. This is an insane amount of heat for such a small room, but it is what is required. Drop the wind and I only need half the heat to hold the temp much higher.

 

[stoichiometry]

A couple things to consider. I have a cabin on Schroon Lake that may have some of the issues that you will.

Will you be keeping the cabin warm all the time? Are you looking to heat the entire cabin? Taking even a small room (in an unisulated or close to it cabin) from around 10 degrees up to 50's to 60's isn't easy to do without an oversized stove in a reasonable amount of time. If you are talking about lake effect, do you have to deal with wind off a lake which makes it even harder? For example, in my cabin, I have a 12x16 foot front room. It's the only room I heat in the winter. I've used 30,000 btu to HOLD a mid 50s temp due to wind. This is an insane amount of heat for such a small room, but it is what is required. Drop the wind and I only need half the heat to hold the temp much higher.

The Jotul combis are big cast iron stoves. They will hold heat well, but steel will radiate heat faster. Something to think about if coming into a cold cabin. Maybe you are comfortable lighting it then going out onto the ice to drill holes for fishing. The cabin will still be cold when you get back.

I think you might want to consider a newer stove due to space and fuel requirements. An older stove will require 3 feet clearance on the back and sides. When you map out the amount of space you loose with that, it's quite a bit. Newer stoves have lower clearance to combustibles. You can set the stove closer to the wall or furniture closer to the sides. As for fuel requirements, higher efficiency stoves use less fuel. Physically getting the temp up to a livable level will be faster and require less wood, which means less wood storage, etc.


HTH,
Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the info. My cabin is insulated and is an Open floor plan[no room partitions, save for the bedroom]. Also, I'm not on the lake, but on the big river. I was hoping to find something inexpensive from craigslist or flee-bay for the winter. Perhaps, I should just go ahead and get an englander or newer jotul? There are a few of the steel 'all nighters' for sale somewhat locally. Thoughts?

Cheers,
M

 

[begreen]

The Combifire 4 is a serious stove to be heating with. A Combifire 1 would be a better fit. The #4 is good for well over twice the sq ftg of the cabin. It also needs generous clearances.

Does the cabin have any backup heat or will it need to be warmed up from outdoor temps? Without knowing more I'd stay with a Drolet, Englander or Century stove in the 1.5 to 2 cu ft range. That will keep the budget low, but will give you an overnight burn and a nice fire view too.

 

[stoichiometry]

The Combifire 4 is a serious stove to be heating with. A Combifire 1 would be a better fit. The #4 is good for well over twice the sq ftg of the cabin. It also needs generous clearances.

Does the cabin have any backup heat or will it need to be warmed up from outdoor temps? Without knowing more I'd stay with a Drolet, Englander or Century stove in the 1.5 to 2 cu ft range. That will keep the budget low, but will give you an overnight burn and a nice fire view too.

BeGreen,

It would be my only source of heat. THere is no electricity at the cabin, so ... I am also not interested with anything with a blower or anything that requires electricity. The cabin is on pier's and sits about 1 to 2 feet off the ground (the floor is also insulated). I'd likely stop by start a fire, go x-country skiing or snowshoeing for the day, and hopefully come back to a warm cabin? Once warm, we'd stay for the weekend ...

The cabin has new high efficiency windows, is insulated and is more-or-less one large room.

Thoughts?

-MS

 

[krex1010]

Get something on the large side, if the place is unheated while you are not there it is going to take a while to warm the place up. When we go to our place in the winter it is not uncommon for the inside temps to be in the teens or colder so it tales several hours to really warm the place, and we have a large stove ( hearthmate with a close to 4 cu ft firebox) I would go with something like the large englander, something that you can really load up when you get there on a cold weekend. A cold cabin can suck up a ton of heat before it starts feeling warm. It's not like warming a chilly house like 10 degrees or so, you are going to have to be able to raise temps up from potentially single digits to whatever gou are comfortable at. And you will have ice cold floors, walls, furniture etc. All this is going to suck up alot of heat . Go larger than you would if this was a place you lived in full time.

 

[begreen]

There are two EPA version Englander's to consider:
VL 17 - http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html - 1.1 cu ft firebox
13NC - http://www.overstockstoves.com/50epacenowos.html - 1.8 cu ft firebox
or the non-EPA FP12 - http://www.overstockstoves.com/50wost31sqft.html - 1.9 cu ft firebox

In Drolet, maybe the Celtic model or Eldorado @ 1.5 cu ft. http://www.northlineexpress.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=5DL-DB03010
In Napoleon, they have an equivalent 1.8 cu ft model in their Timberwolf line: http://www.northlineexpress.com/customkititems.asp?kc=5NP-2200-L-K

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Get something on the large side, if the place is unheated while you are not there it is going to take a while to warm the place up. When we go to our place in the winter it is not uncommon for the inside temps to be in the teens or colder so it tales several hours to really warm the place, and we have a large stove ( hearthmate with a close to 4 cu ft firebox) I would go with something like the large englander, something that you can really load up when you get there on a cold weekend. A cold cabin can suck up a ton of heat before it starts feeling warm. It's not like warming a chilly house like 10 degrees or so, you are going to have to be able to raise temps up from potentially single digits to whatever gou are comfortable at. And you will have ice cold floors, walls, furniture etc. All this is going to suck up alot of heat . Go larger than you would if this was a place you lived in full time.

Agreed. I'd go for somewhere around 100btu/sq ft. Absolutely crazy numbers, but it's what you will need in an extremely cold cabin.

You may want to look at propane to do the heat up and then a stove to carry the heat. Especially if you are going on a long ski trip after lighting it.

Matt

 

[stoichiometry]

BeGreen -

Those are some good prices (including shipping!). I wonder if those stoves is big enough, based on the recommendations of the other two posts? Right now (temps are 36) I can get the place very warm with a kerosene space heater. In fact, I was so warm I had to open the door of the cabin to cool it down, then I shut the door and kept a couple of window open and maintained warm temp.

So ... you'd say no on the Jotul? and yes on the larger englander? I'd better start saving my pennies ... LOL.

Kindly,
M

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Since you have a kero heater I'd go with something in the 2 CF range. The two stoves working together will heat the place up quickly and then you won't overcook yourself with the smaller stove.

Matt

 

[begreen]

Not sure what size your kerosene heater is, but they are usually 10-20K btus. I think putting a 3 cu ft Englander in that space would be overkill for a well insulated, 750 sq ft area. The place will warm up quicker, but with a big stove still cranking, you will have the windows wide open soon afterward.

No matter what stove you put in, it will take time to heat up the place. The stoves suggested will do it, but it's not going to be 70F in there in 30 minutes when it's 20 outside. It takes time to get the mass of the interior warmed up. But a reasonably sized stove will hold the temp once the place is warmed up and should hold an overnight burn. My vote would be for the 13NC. If you want a Jotul, I would put in an F400 or F500 or the Combifire #1 if you can find one in great condition.

 

[stoichiometry]

Since you have a kero heater I'd go with something in the 2 CF range. The two stoves working together will heat the place up quickly and then you won't overcook yourself with the smaller stove.

Matt

Matt,

The kero heater is only for the short term. It is a small, cheap space heater and it's pretty horrible. I suppose I could keep it in there to add extra heat during the initial warmup.

Kindly,
M

 

[krex1010]

Since you have a kero heater I'd go with something in the 2 CF range. The two stoves working together will heat the place up quickly and then you won't overcook yourself with the smaller stove.

Matt

This seems like a good plan a stove in the 2-2.5 cu ft range will give overnight heat and could heat the place solo most of the time, and you have the option of running the kerosene heater the get the place warm when it it really cold

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The initial heat up is the killer. Keep it, at least for the first few years. Trust me that you will be surprised how much energy is required to heat the place because of the cold startup. It's a completely different situation from heating a home. Before I knew you had a kero heater I mentioned propane for that reason.

Matt

 

[vvvv]

consider prevailing wind direction when locating stove. consider key damper for possible excessive draft situation.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

consider prevailing wind direction when locating stove. consider blower on stove, somehow. In cases of excessive draft & need for fast heat, I love the Magic Heat on any stove though power outage might be of concern. Blog in my signature explains the reasoning.

Good morning Pook!

Blowers and such would be nice, but he's without electrons.

Matt

 

[vvvv]

consider prevailing wind direction when locating stove. consider blower on stove, somehow. In cases of excessive draft & need for fast heat, I love the Magic Heat on any stove though power outage might be of concern. Blog in my signature explains the reasoning.

Good morning Pook!

Blowers and such would be nice, but he's without electrons.

Matt

thanx,GM, edited. hope local crime's not a factor

 

[dave360up]

You may not need to go oversize on the stove. Seeing as your username is "Stoichiometry" I'm sue you will always be burning at the perfect air/fuel ratio for maximum efficiency!

 

[begreen]

FWIW, my experience has been that a smaller stove will often get up to temp and be putting out max btus quicker than a large stove. A 5-600# stove takes time to get all of its mass of steel, iron or stone up to temperature. The 13NC without side shields is highly radiant which I suspect will also help get the surrounding furniture etc. up to temperature more quickly.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Be sure to post some pics when its all done to, we love pics! Especially from cabins ;-)

BTW upstate NYer here too (well grew up there atleast). My folks have a cabin in South Colton. They rarely visit in winter though, and dont stay for long, so they went for the easy quick heat option of a propane fireplace when the temps are cool. Have many friends on the river too... wish I still lived up there beautiful area.

 

[stoichiometry]

consider prevailing wind direction when locating stove. consider blower on stove, somehow. In cases of excessive draft & need for fast heat, I love the Magic Heat on any stove though power outage might be of concern. Blog in my signature explains the reasoning.

Good morning Pook!

Blowers and such would be nice, but he's without electrons.

Matt

thanx,GM, edited. hope local crime's not a factor

"Pook"

I don't *get* the crime reference ... ??? perhaps I'm a bit slow on the uptake.

-M

 

[stoichiometry]

The initial heat up is the killer. Keep it, at least for the first few years. Trust me that you will be surprised how much energy is required to heat the place because of the cold startup. It's a completely different situation from heating a home. Before I knew you had a kero heater I mentioned propane for that reason.

Matt

Matt -- I'll refrain from burying it and will use it this winter. Thanks for the note and the help.

-M

 

[stoichiometry]

Be sure to post some pics when its all done to, we love pics! Especially from cabins ;-)

BTW upstate NYer here too (well grew up there atleast). My folks have a cabin in South Colton. They rarely visit in winter though, and dont stay for long, so they went for the easy quick heat option of a propane fireplace when the temps are cool. Have many friends on the river too... wish I still lived up there beautiful area.

Pile O wood,

I know colton very well. THere is a fantastic book store there [if you like cabins and used books you'd love this place!!]. I'll definitely post some pics ... it's an empty cabin right now, w/ no electrons nor running water and it even came with an outhouse!! LOL.

Cheers,
M