Road Salt

[semipro]

I didn't know the beet juice was just as bad... I feel terrible about my job now... Pretty much every storm we put loads of salt on sidewalks and parking lots and the other trucks spread it on roads. We use sand on gravel lots, but still salt on their decks, walkways, etc. Perhaps the price of salt will increase to the point it's more economically friendly to exclusively use sand rather than salt.

Don't feel bad. There are no easy answers. Even sand has its issues. Once it runs into streams it will land in the benthic zone (bottom layer) and "suffocate" life living there. Sand also does nothing to enable mechanical removal by plow, which brine does well.

The best we can do with current technology is to avoid over-application and to try and recover the residuals after the winter event for reuse via a street cleaner truck. There are others (e..g. , me) that are looking at ways to recover the salt that accumulates in detention ponds and roadside ditches using salt-loving plants and other methods.

 

[SpaceBus]

Don't feel bad. There are no easy answers. Even sand has its issues. Once it runs into streams it will land in the benthic zone (bottom layer) and "suffocate" life living there. Sand also does nothing to enable mechanical removal by plow, which brine does well.

What do places do in the zones where it is too cold for salt?

 

[semipro]

What do places do in the zones where it is too cold for salt?

Some salts work better at lower temps than others. Once you get too cold you deal with a persistent layer of ice/snow with applied traction enhancers like stone aggregates and vehicle studs/chains.

 

[semipro]

Salt impacts on vehicles was mentioned but salt is also killing our bridges, concrete roads, steel superstructures etc.
Concrete is not water proof. Dissolved salt enters concrete and corrodes the reinforcing steel within. The resulting rust creates extreme expansion forces within the concrete that breaks the low tensile strength concrete apart. When you see this at the surface its commonly called spalling.

 

[ABMax24]

Further to this the salt attacks things like steel light poles. The city of Edmonton about 5hrs away from us had to replace thousands of light poles after a few incidents of the poles falling over into traffic due to the road salt corroding away the bases.

 

[ABMax24]

Some salts work better at lower temps than others. Once you get too cold you deal with a persistent layer of ice/snow with applied traction enhancers like stone aggregates and vehicle studs/chains.

Eventually once you get cold enough ice doesn't really form on the road and snow doesn't readily stick, most of the snow in these temps is blown off just by passing traffic. It also seems at sub -30 temps that the air is so dry that a thin layer of ice on the road will actually sublimate off the road, leaving dry pavement behind, it probably helps that at those temps the road is always a little warmer than the air from the heat of the ground beneath.

 

[Grizzerbear]

I know a lot of deer get hit by motorist after every snow. I cant count the time on mornings after a storm ive nearly hit a deer that was licking salt/residue off the roadway.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Here in North central PA, the gas well fracking industry is trying to get state politicians to OK the use of the fluid that comes back up from wells to melt snow and ice . This stuff is toxic waste and all of it is radioactive. They want to use it on paved roads in winter and unpaved ones in summer( for dust controll). There are large ponds of it around this area just waiting for someone to figure a way to get rid of it. It was rejected at local wastewater treatment plants partly because of the radioactivity.

Interesting. I knew they were injecting that stuff in wells around Youngstown and then started having seismic issues. So now they want to spread it on roads for ice / snow control and dust control in the summer? I'm here to tell you it don't work (for dust control). Tried that here with brine and it lasts maybe a week and washes to the berm and kills the grass.

I bet the oil and gas lobby is extremely powerful in PA., they will probably get it rammed through anyway. I'm all about shale gas and oil, it makes us independent of foreign supplies but sometimes I wonder at what cost.

Everything has it's downside, even burning wood, corn and pellets for heat.

 

[begreen]

Coincidentally this article came out yesterday. Sounds like a ton of brine water comes up with fracked gas and oil and a lot of it is hot.

America's Radioactive Secret

Investigation shows oil-and-gas wells' toxic waste could be making workers sick and contaminating communities across America.

www.rollingstone.com

 

[ABMax24]

Coincidentally this article came out yesterday. Sounds like a ton of brine water comes up with fracked gas and oil and a lot of it is hot.

America's Radioactive Secret

Investigation shows oil-and-gas wells' toxic waste could be making workers sick and contaminating communities across America.

www.rollingstone.com

Reading that makes me sick. Working in the oil and gas industry I have seen many things, but in Canada we have much better worker safety, and environmental regulations than those described in this article. In almost everyone one of those situations there would be jail time to the responsible persons and multi-million dollar fines to the responsible company if this were to happen here.

How do situations like this happen in the United States of America? How does the American public allow time and time again corporate greed to overtake the need for public safety? This absolutely baffles me...

 

[JimBear]

Reading that makes me sick. Working in the oil and gas industry I have seen many things, but in Canada we have much better worker safety, and environmental regulations than those described in this article. In almost everyone one of those situations there would be jail time to the responsible persons and multi-million dollar fines to the responsible company if this were to happen here.

How do situations like this happen in the United States of America? How does the American public allow time and time again corporate greed to overtake the need for public safety? This absolutely baffles me...

It’s been a few years since I was in the oil patch in North Dakota but using salt water/brine wasn’t legal there. There were several drivers & company’s that got some healthy fines for illegal dumping when I was working up there. The company I worked for was just getting into hauling salt water when I left & they were super strict about dumping protocols.

 

[Supersurvey]

What ever happened to staying home when it snows. We live in a time of unrealistic expectations.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

What ever happened to staying home when it snows. We live in a time of unrealistic expectations.

Do it all the time. Only go out if ABSOLUTELY necessary. Many who work in critical jobs dont have that luxury though. Roads have to remain open for emergency services as well.