Semi-slammer & new liner?

[bluedogz]

So the chimney sweep comes out this AM, and shares the following good news with Mrs. Blue:

- Our Sierra Hearthstove has 8" flue, vented directly through the hearth wall into a 22" unlined flue, which is not compliant with NFPA.
- the masonry tiles directly behind the junction are cracked through to the brick
- he recommend SS liner: 1-day install, +/-$2400 all in.

My knowledge of chimneys is rudimentary. I guess I'm trying to find out:
- does this price seem reasonable?
- despite challenges, I'm a pretty handy guy. A part of me looks at installing a chimney liner and says "How hard can that be?" Do I need to be talked out of this?

 

[mellow]

I would get a second quote, that is mighty high, most are in the $1000-1500 with materials.

Depending on how handy you are this is something you can do yourself, do plenty of reading on here before you dive in.

 

[bluedogz]

Actually, this WAS the second quote. First guy gave the same number but was less clear about exactly where and what the problem was.

 

[begreen]

You definitely need an insulated liner asap. Another cost in the estimate might be for replacing the thimble (where the stove pipe passes through the chimney wall) which would take an additional hour or two of work. Did they write the brand of liner? If this is with Duraliner (the insulation is jacketed) that will add some cost too. If you can post pictures we may be able to better see what the sweep saw.

Can you do this yourself? If you are competent with tools, able to work safely up on the roof, and don't take shortcuts, then yes. It would help a lot if you also have a friend that can assist. 8" liner + insulation is going to be more costly, so it is worth asking at this juncture how long are you intending to keep this stove? If it is forever, then go with the 8" liner. If a replacement is being considered, this may be a good time to do it. Most modern stoves use a 6" liner.

 

[bluedogz]

Good news! I misunderstood the sweep on the phone- the liner is a 6", so we don't have to worry about doing the 8" mess.

 

[Loco Gringo]

So he quoted you $2400 for 22 ft of insulated 6 inch liner? Just getting facts.

 

[WoodpileOCD]

You can buy the whole kit here for $450 and another $250 for the insulation. I'm getting to install one myself because I'm like you "How hard can it be?"

http://www.chimneylinerinc.com/round-liner-kit.php

 

[bluedogz]

So he quoted you $2400 for 22 ft of insulated 6 inch liner? Just getting facts.

Correct. For some reason, his quote states 40' of liner. That's enough pipe to wrap it around the chimney 3 or 4 times after dropping it down- my measurements are 25.5' of flue. Yes, I included the exterior chimney.

Woodpile: Mine was somewhat more, but if you get yours first, let me know how hard it can be!

 

[WoodpileOCD]

So he quoted you $2400 for 22 ft of insulated 6 inch liner? Just getting facts.

Correct. For some reason, his quote states 40' of liner. That's enough pipe to wrap it around the chimney 3 or 4 times after dropping it down- my measurements are 25.5' of flue. Yes, I included the exterior chimney.

Woodpile: Mine was somewhat more, but if you get yours first, let me know how hard it can be!

bluedogz, my liner came in and I've started the project. You can follow along here. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/84695/

 

[bluedogz]

These install threads will be interesting... Woodpile is going into an existing fireplace and using Perlite insulation, I'm using wrapped insulation down to a masonry thimble & freestanding stove.

 

[Danno77]

Geesh, that sure seems like a lot of moolah. You are a pretty capable guy, but trying to do this on your own could prove to be pretty difficult. Ladders and getting the liner to the roof and down the chimey, etc etc are gonna be the hard parts. If you can get a buddy or two to give you a hand (har har) then I think your chances are wayyy better. I don't even think i'd attempt this on my own, and i'm something of a hardheaded idiot that thinks he knows more than everybody else (experts ncluded). Definitely keep us posted.

Edit: I am getting the impression that when you say "on your own" you don't mean "me and some guys" if you really just meant "not paying to have it done by a pro" then you'll be ok. I just have been following your other threads and pursuits and I'm getting the idea that when you ask "can I do it?" you mean "I" in the singular sense, like ME, ALONE, NO HELP... So, as I said before, if you have some helpers for this job, then I think you'll be ok.

 

[bluedogz]

Absolutely right, Danno... the only reason the liner hasn't gone in yet is that I'm waiting to get at least one buddy (or day-laborer) over to the house to help. Mrs. Blue put the kibbosh on me climbing a 30' ladder... left to myself, I'd do it one-handed or not.

 

[Hogwildz]

These install threads will be interesting... Woodpile is going into an existing fireplace and using Perlite insulation, I'm using wrapped insulation down to a masonry thimble & freestanding stove.

Not the best time of year to be considering this, but, where are you located? I might be able to come down and give you a hand.
How bout posting some pics of the house, the firebox and anything else dealing with the install of the new liner, damper area, existing chimney & flue, etc.
Can't make any promises, very overextended, but if I can free a weekend up. I might be able to help.

FYI
Self install of double wall insulated rigid(barring it fits) would be about 1/2 the cost you have been quoted.

 

[bluedogz]

These install threads will be interesting... Woodpile is going into an existing fireplace and using Perlite insulation, I'm using wrapped insulation down to a masonry thimble & freestanding stove.

Not the best time of year to be considering this, but, where are you located? I might be able to come down and give you a hand.
How bout posting some pics of the house, the firebox and anything else dealing with the install of the new liner, damper area, existing chimney & flue, etc.
Can't make any promises, very overextended, but if I can free a weekend up. I might be able to help.

FYI
Self install of double wall insulated rigid(barring it fits) would be about 1/2 the cost you have been quoted.

Hog, that is a fantastic offer... lemme answer your questions first:

I live in Havre de Grace, MD. About 40 miles north of Baltimore, 30 miles south of Wilmington, DE, and about 25 due south of Lancaster, PA.

How bout posting some pics of the house, the firebox and anything else dealing with the install of the new liner, damper area, existing chimney & flue, etc.

This will come tonight- can't send photos through firewall at work.

However, I can say it is a total 26' 13"x13" masonry flue, straight up and out. No bends, kinks, or anything... that's what made me ask "how hard could this be?"

Oh, and no damper or anything else- this chimney appears to have been built specifically for a stove, as it descends to a masonry thimble and that's it. Ergo, no firebox either. Photos will show you a 6" hole in the brick hearth, not much else.

Re: rigid liner- I priced flex vs. rigid at both TSC and Rockford, and found the prices to be nearly equal. Of course, that still was 1/2 of what the sweep wanted. For the whole flex kit, I'm out $800 including insulation and everything but the stupid pulling cone.

I can't foresee that this job would take more than about 4 hours... 2 hours to stick the liner down the flue and 2 more to stuff you with food and beer. One arm doesn't slow down good cookin'.

 

[Hogwildz]

So this is a stand alone chimney, not a fireplace?
That is what I now picture in my head as you mentioned a thimble.
I was imagining a fireplace.

Does that price include the cap, top plate, T etc?

I bought my Duravent double wall rigid 6 seasons ago from Ventingipe.com, and it came to just above $1,000.00 including shipping.
I had to pick it up at the local industrial part. No biggie as I have a Ranger p/u and it came all wrapped in boxes on a crate.
So no access below the thimble I assume? The T snout will prolly be the biggest PITA about the entire install. Or can we get away with a 90 degree elbow there?

 

[Hogwildz]

Not too bad a ride. Just map quested it.
3 hrs 11 mins / 134.42 miles

Damn, wish it was summer, I could ride the bike down.
Rode to Port Deposit a couple years ago. Was a nice ride.

 

[bluedogz]

So this is a stand alone chimney, not a fireplace?
That is what I now picture in my head as you mentioned a thimble.
I was imagining a fireplace.

Does that price include the cap, top plate, T etc?

I bought my Duravent double wall rigid 6 seasons ago from Ventingipe.com, and it came to just above $1,000.00 including shipping.
I had to pick it up at the local industrial part. No biggie as I have a Ranger p/u and it came all wrapped in boxes on a crate.
So no access below the thimble I assume? The T snout will prolly be the biggest PITA about the entire install. Or can we get away with a 90 degree elbow there?

Yep, not a fireplace. I do have two other fireplaces but those are a whole 'nother project.

Yes- parts include the whole smash from the tee to the top. The tee is actually a two-piece: the vertical piece is molded to the liner, and descends vertically into a large hose-clamp-like attachment on the snout of the tee, then you just tighten the hose clamp and that pulls the tee together.

Like this: http://www.chimneylinerinc.com/t-video.html

No access below the thimble, not even a cleanout.

So, really, what I need to get is a helper (who has not had his balance affected by a head injury ) to drop the liner down the flue so I can attach the tee, then screw on the top plate and cap, and bango- done.

 

[bluedogz]

Not too bad a ride. Just map quested it.
3 hrs 11 mins / 134.42 miles

Damn, wish it was summer, I could ride the bike down.
Rode to Port Deposit a couple years ago. Was a nice ride.

Best stop in Port Deposit is the Union Hotel- interesting menu of game meats. Kangaroo burgers, elk steaks, ostrich filets, etc.

If you saw the dam in Port Deposit, I'm just on the south side of that dam. If you didn't, it's maybe 3 miles away from where you were. A couple blocks from Ramsey's Chesapeake Harley-Davidson shop.

 

[bluedogz]

OK, Hog, here ya go...

First pic is the thimble area inside. As you can see, there's not a lot to say. In this, you can also see the snout sitting on the stovetop where I brought it see if it would fit into the thimble. It will if I butter it. The vertical part of the tee slides through that big hose-clampy-looking part of the snout.

Second pic is the chimney outside. Stove is on a level with the floor directly behind the wood rack pictured, meaning the chimney is a 25' vertical run from thimble to cap. My ides was to run a 40' ladder straight to the top of the chimney, since laddering those roofs promises to be a PITA that won't make the job any easier.

Edit: here's the stove too, for what that's worth...

 

[Hogwildz]

Not too bad a ride. Just map quested it.
3 hrs 11 mins / 134.42 miles

Damn, wish it was summer, I could ride the bike down.
Rode to Port Deposit a couple years ago. Was a nice ride.

Best stop in Port Deposit is the Union Hotel- interesting menu of game meats. Kangaroo burgers, elk steaks, ostrich filets, etc.

If you saw the dam in Port Deposit, I'm just on the south side of that dam. If you didn't, it's maybe 3 miles away from where you were. A couple blocks from Ramsey's Chesapeake Harley-Davidson shop.

Blue, the Union is exactly where we rode to. Was the North meets South run. Great time, cool little place. Cept it was like 105 with heat index the day we were there. Still a good time though.

 

[Hogwildz]

OK, Hog, here ya go...

First pic is the thimble area inside. As you can see, there's not a lot to say. In this, you can also see the snout sitting on the stovetop where I brought it see if it would fit into the thimble. It will if I butter it. The vertical part of the tee slides through that big hose-clampy-looking part of the snout.

Second pic is the chimney outside. Stove is on a level with the floor directly behind the wood rack pictured, meaning the chimney is a 25' vertical run from thimble to cap. My ides was to run a 40' ladder straight to the top of the chimney, since laddering those roofs promises to be a PITA that won't make the job any easier.

Edit: here's the stove too, for what that's worth...

40 footer is going to be tricky there. As there is no straight shot to the chimney.
By the time you clear that second story eave at the gutter edge, the ladder is going to be way out in the yard.
Would a step ladder against the chimney on the upper part work?
25' is going to be fun to wrestle around with up there.
Get yourself the pull cone. The last one I helped with I made a cone out of the end of the liner by making a vertical cut and folding it over onto itself. But then you have to cut a clean end on the lower end, then cut any excess of the top too. Or you could cut a pc of wood in a circle and try securing it to the liner end with screws through the sides. Hopefully it slides down real easy.
Doesn't look like to bad of a job.
Is the chimney brick in good shape? Sturdy, secure?
When are you ordering the liner?

 

[bluedogz]

OK, Hog, here ya go...

First pic is the thimble area inside. As you can see, there's not a lot to say. In this, you can also see the snout sitting on the stovetop where I brought it see if it would fit into the thimble. It will if I butter it. The vertical part of the tee slides through that big hose-clampy-looking part of the snout.

Second pic is the chimney outside. Stove is on a level with the floor directly behind the wood rack pictured, meaning the chimney is a 25' vertical run from thimble to cap. My ides was to run a 40' ladder straight to the top of the chimney, since laddering those roofs promises to be a PITA that won't make the job any easier.

Edit: here's the stove too, for what that's worth...

40 footer is going to be tricky there. As there is no straight shot to the chimney.
By the time you clear that second story eave at the gutter edge, the ladder is going to be way out in the yard.
Would a step ladder against the chimney on the upper part work?
25' is going to be fun to wrestle around with up there.
Get yourself the pull cone. The last one I helped with I made a cone out of the end of the liner by making a vertical cut and folding it over onto itself. But then you have to cut a clean end on the lower end, then cut any excess of the top too. Or you could cut a pc of wood in a circle and try securing it to the liner end with screws through the sides. Hopefully it slides down real easy.
Doesn't look like to bad of a job.
Is the chimney brick in good shape? Sturdy, secure?
When are you ordering the liner?

You're right... I used my high-school geometry to figure out that the ladder needed to be 35.6' if we set the foot 12' out in the yard to clear the eave. (Yes, I'm the guy you beat up in high school.)

I think a stepladder could work on the upper roof, but it seemed you'd need to do some super ninja commando stuff to get to the cap, where a big mofo extension ladder could go in one shot. I'm open to suggestions there, though.

Someone here showed a DIY pull cone made from a steel drywall stud- I figured that would do the job on a low budget.

Chimney is in excellent shape.

Liner and insul. blanket kit are in the garage now. Mrs. Blue is guarding them like a pit bull because she knows I'll just climb up there when she's not around.

 

[rwhite]

No way I'd get on an extension ladder at 35'. Those things get pretty rickety when they get extended that far. I got a 24' ladder and when I get it out to 17-18' that thing feels like it's made from spaghetti. I'd rent a cherry picker or build some cleats on the upper roof to level a ladder. Cherry picker is probably a few hundred a day but it may be worth it.

 

[bluedogz]

No way I'd get on an extension ladder at 35'. Those things get pretty rickety when they get extended that far. I got a 24' ladder and when I get it out to 17-18' that thing feels like it's made from spaghetti. I'd rent a cherry picker or build some cleats on the upper roof to level a ladder. Cherry picker is probably a few hundred a day but it may be worth it.

My family of firefighters disagrees, but your point is taken.

Worst case scenario, I rent a man-lift at around $200 for the day. There's a rental place a few miles away that has them.

 

[WoodpileOCD]

bluedogz: A man lift is the way to go in that situation. Depending on the class of ladder you have it would be stable enough I think but you wouldn't. I just dropped/forced my 8" liner down my chimney and it was a lot heavier and unweildly than I expected it to be. If you look at the pics I was relatively secure on a small ladder braced against the chimney. When that thing starts to swing around on you and go off the roof it has all the leverage and you have none. Your/mine instinct is to do whatever you can to keep it from doing that and it happens in a split second. (This is from very personal experience gained yesterday) Granted you will be dealing with a 6" so it should be better but if it were me I'd opt for a lift but then again, I'm 60 and not nearly as strong or agile as I used to be. Not as bulletproof as I was in my 20's either but thats another unrelated thread I'm sure. :cheese:

I know you have been following my install thread and here are some pics of yesterdays wrasslin match. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/84695/