soapstone: the best material for non-cats ?

[grsimmon]

Regarding catalytics, it seems many people would agree that soapstone is "different" but not necessarily better.

However, regarding non-cats, I'm wondering if soapstone actually is the best construction material to use to aid in reaching high temps in the firebox necessary for secondary burn. Am I understanding soapstone correctly that it radiates heat outward slowly, thereby acting as kind of a "quasi insulator" and encouraging internal firebox temps to stay high? I would very much like to hear your thoughts / opinions on this, particularly from any HearthStone owners. Jeez I hope I'm making sense what I'm trying to ask.

By the way it was -10 F at my house this morning....that just ain't right, and no April fools.

 

[grsimmon]

I forgot to mention: I'm hoping that some of you will reply "Yes" and post pictures off the internet of soapstone elephants, foxes, giraffes, etc. %-P

 

[Highbeam]

I'm thinking that the large thermal mass absorbs a lot of heat from the fire at the beginning which actually extends the time it takes for a cold stove to begin to burn cleanly. Once the stone is hot then I agree that a fresh wood charge will reach combustion temperature more quickly by sucking some heat from the hot stone. I don't see so much of an insulation quality as I do an energy storage quality being the benefit of the soapstone. The soapstone moderates the output from the non-cat stove, lowers the peaks and raises the valleys.

In regards to a cat stove, well, the actual combustion process provides a low and slow output which is what using soapstone on a non-cat tries to replicate. Since the fire itself is low and slow there seems to be less need for the thermal mass.

We had 37 and light snow this morning.

 

[Todd]

This was brought up before quite a while back and someone actually had all the specifics and science behind it, but I forgot who it was, maybe Marty S? What I got from that discussion was fire bricks were a better isulator or reflector than soapstone and other materials and gets to those high secondary temps quicker besides being cheaper. I guess there is a fine line there somewhere where you would want to get the best of both worlds and soapstone fills that nicely. I think many soapstone stoves actually have some fire bricks inside the firebox, mine has them on the bottom and my old Hearthstone Homestead had them in the back wall.

 

[bjkjoseph]

first year with woodstock,love the catalyst,hate the soapstone.

 

[Todd]

first year with woodstock,love the catalyst,hate the soapstone.

Why?

 

[bjkjoseph]

soft heat is a nice way to say your freezing your ass off.if you replaced a cast iron stove with a soapstone you would see that there is an irrational exuberance with soapstone.

 

[edthedawg]

Are you burning it hot enough with good, dry, seasoned wood? I'll agree my neighbor's smoke dragon gets a lot hotter - uncomfortably so, in fact. But I heat a much larger house with less wood and a LOT cleaner - and THEY have way better established seasoning and storage practices than I do...

Btw: I shoulda checked the temps outside this morning - it was into the high 30's last night, and felt chilly at 6am when That Darn Boy woke me up, so I built a ripping big fire on top of last night's coals... Then I heard it'll be 70 later today :-/

 

[FireWalker]

soft heat is a nice way to say your freezing your ass off.if you replaced a cast iron stove with a soapstone you would see that there is an irrational exuberance with soapstone.

I also made the jump from iron to stone. It's a completely different animal. When I'm using my stove in what I call warm up mode, the glass/front gets really hot, you can dry your wet pants while they are still on. My most valuable lesson this season was spending more time letting the stove get hot and less time looking at the stove top thermometer. There is the constant fear of overfiring an expensive soapstone stove and don't get me wrong, I worry about this. I will run my stove on half throttle for as long as it takes to get things warmed up which my manual describe as a medium high burn and this works well for us. I think there is a tendancy to shut these heaters down a little too soon due to the fear of overfire. My manual reads clear on this issue, a hot stove makes for a warm house and a clean chimney.

By the numbers, my new stove more than doubles the heat output of my old one. At first I felt like screaming where is all this extra heat? Then I started loading EW and pushing more air and I found it. They describe this unit as a powerhouse and it is, but I needed to let the stove show me what it was capable of first.

Try more combustion air, not too much but not too little.

 

[begreen]

So far the T6 has given us with a good compromise. Lot's of mass for gentle heat and less peaks and valleys in the temps, but little worry. It's hit 800 a few times this winter, but no big deal.

 

[edthedawg]

FireWalker is totally correct. I drive the Heritage full bore, packed about 75-80% full from cold, and run it wide open til it goes into full-inferno mode (you'll hear the stove start to tick differently) and then give it 10-15 more minutes like that, before closing the flue damper and shutting the primary down about 80-90%. 450-500F follows shortly thereafter.

One big key is putting enough fuel far enough forward in the box. Wood left in the back just sits and burns cold - you need to strike a balance of wood stacked to burn far enough forward without it sliding down and laying on the glass.

 

[Todd]

soft heat is a nice way to say your freezing your ass off.if you replaced a cast iron stove with a soapstone you would see that there is an irrational exuberance with soapstone.

Nobody in this house is freezing their ass off. When I switched from steel to soapstone, I did notice a difference in the heat feel but the BTU's are still there without the peaks and valleys. When I need more heat I turn up the air and don't go for those long burns. What kind of stove temps are you running and at what air setting?

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

We made the jump from Steel/Cast Iron stoves to Soapstone, and we couldn't be happier!
Like everyone says, a nice even heat - that even makes it upstairs w/ the help of a ceiling fan.
Glass also seems to be much easier to clean. Fires are also much easier to re-start from coals.

The only problem I have is more psychological - fear of overfiring.
But, on the other hand, I have found it difficult to get my stove temp anywhere near the
overfire temp - almost impossible to get it over 500 degrees (stove top measurement).

I would definitely recommend a soapstone stove (cat or non-cat) for the 24/7 burner.

 

[bjkjoseph]

todd i read a post of yours where you where looking for a second stove for those really cold days when the soapstone could not handle it.i am glad people like there soapstone,i do like mine in the warmer weather,when its cold it does not cut the mustard.if the woodstock was cast iron it would be the best stove ever made.in my life time it is my eighth stove its well made but did you ever feel the heat from a steel or cast iron catalyst stove.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Joseph, I can't speak for Todd, but I certainly have heated with steel stove, cast stoves and now a soapstone.

First, did you realize how much cast is on that soapstone stove you have? I agree there is a different feel of the heat from the various stoves. If you want really hot heat fast, then go for steel. What we have found though is that it really depends a lot; repeat, a lot, on what wood you are burning and how you are burning it.

There have been a few times when we weren't happy with the heat output but we learned. At present, our main wood is white ash. We have found though that if we mix in some soft maple that we get the fire going much quicker. If we burn elm or cherry, then there is no problem.

I fail to understand why you would like the cat but not the stove though. How on earth could you not like the stove if the cat is working good. Load the stove up, engage the cat (when it is time) and that stove temperature will shoot up over 600 degrees in very short time. That gives you a lot of heat for sure. And yes, it is a much softer heat and perhaps that is what you don't like.

As for freezing your butt....wow! We burn only 50-60% the amount of wood that we used to and stay much, much warmer. Our previous stove was a steel stove! I'll stick to the soapstone.

 

[Todd]

todd i read a post of yours where you where looking for a second stove for those really cold days when the soapstone could not handle it.i am glad people like there soapstone,i do like mine in the warmer weather,when its cold it does not cut the mustard.if the woodstock was cast iron it would be the best stove ever made.in my life time it is my eighth stove its well made but did you ever feel the heat from a steel or cast iron catalyst stove.

Yeah your right, but I don't blame it on the soapstone, it's more due to insulation and stove placement. My stove is located in the basement on an outside wall, so there are times I have a hard time getting enough heat upstairs, but my Woodstock handles the whole house heating (keeping upstairs over 70) probably 95% of the time. I think I can get that closer to 100% hopefully with more insulation on my exposed concrete walk out basement wall.

I never burned a similar sized steel or cast iron cat stove so I guess I can't really say whether or not it would be better, but hey, I'm sure I'll get the itch to try a new stove when I get sick of looking at this one or something better comes out. There are some others on my list like the Blaze King and Harman. I do have a fireplace upstairs I can fire up to help out, but it's not the most efficient or clean burning, so I'd like to do something with it some day.

That's too bad your stove isn't cuttin the mustard. What stove did the Woodstock replace? Have you gone past the 6 month warranty yet? Maybe you can get your money back and get a larger cat stove?

 

[snowtime]

My reason for picking a T6 was the steel firebox. Being snowed in I did not want any issue with overfireing. I mean its difficult to fix something when you can not go to the store for 5 months. This stove is a convection type which is new for us. The stove has worked out great and an added bonus is the convection gives us a little more space to live it. I mean when its -40 and your driving a steel stove you really can not sit too close. The point of my post is I think convection or soapstone for those who can get to their store for issues is much more conducive to comfortable living next to the stove. We have a sofa set up only 4' from one side and we can sit and read for hours even when the stove is kept between 600 and 800. The front is a different matter but thats to be expected.
I know steel stove owners will not like my opinion but thats just the way I feel the heat. Steel stoves are great at heating and if one has lots of space a good option. If I had been price constrained I would have probably gone steel as we have used steel for 40 years and its reliable heat. I do not mean to sound elitist as steel stoves will do the job, it's just possible in my mind to do it better.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

I'm sold on the Soapstone......

Backwoods Savage (Dennis) and I have been comparing wood consumption for the last 2 years and he uses almost exactly half the wood that I do with the same amount of heat.
He lives about an hour from me and gets the same weather.

I will be getting a Woodstock Fireview without question sometime in the not so distant future. When it gets below freezing I cannot keep the heat above 70 with the Englander 30 alone! My house is just to inefficient and is on a hill with wind whipping off a lake.

 

[begreen]

I'd think that the wood savings are more related to the cat's more complete burning than soapstone. At least that is what appears to be the case when comparing to a Blaze King.

 

[bjkjoseph]

that's right its the cat that saves wood also hiram maxim saying he is sold on soapstone with out ever trying it that's what i am talking about.i have the stove there is a lot of hype,it burns very long and is a good stove i don't regret buying it i have 2 stoves it serves its purpose well for me heating a small area. but asked to heat a larger area this stove cannot do it it just simply cannot do it unless you have extremely well insulated house. i replaced a vc aspen with the soapstone. my vc was a lemon, it had a lot of problems but is was hot. if i wanted to i could heat the whole house with it, but is was a lot of work the soapstone is twice the size and cant do it.my point is not to knock soapstone but i dont want people to have unrealistic expectations and that's what i see happening, people are not being mean spirited, they are happy with there stoves and that's great. but you have to give an honest assessment of your stove and sometimes when you own that stove,or that car or that house or that stock your opinions could be biased a little i am guilty of this also its human nature.....p.s. i don't like convection heat either,nothing beats radiant heat.

 

[grsimmon]

My initial question was regarding potential benefits of soapstone for non-cats, related to firebox temps. If you want to debate about cat vs. non-cat, steel vs. soapstone, etc. it would be better if you started a new thread. Anyone else have any opinions / info. regarding my initial query?

 

[Rob From Wisconsin]

My initial question was regarding potential benefits of soapstone for non-cats, related to firebox temps. If you want to debate about cat vs. non-cat, steel vs. soapstone, etc. it would be better if you started a new thread. Anyone else have any opinions / info. regarding my initial query?

Like I've said in the previous post, we have nothing but good things to say about out NON-CAT SOAPSTONE
stove. It is not finickey to start & operate. Once it gets up to temp it does a great job of heating our
entire house (even for such a small stove). I'm sure it has a bit to do with the craftmenship & design
of Hearthstone units. It makes for a great 24/7 burner. I'm looking forward to placing another such unit
in our addition in the near future.

Rob

 

[Vic99]

I agree with Rob. With dry wood and a bit of patience, you can be up to 350-400 F in 30-40 minutes from a cold start. I've learned overtime to set up with kindling and lots of small splits first and run wide open til you get to around 200F, damp down to half for a few minutes, then go nearly all the way down. Once the temp gets up, then open up for a bit and add medium sized splits.

Getting back up to temp is easy from 200F or so. At that point medium and large splits will get you lots of heat.