Starting the hearth

KJamesJR Posted By KJamesJR, Sep 3, 2018 at 10:01 PM

  1. KJamesJR

    KJamesJR
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    What better time to start a hearth build then Laborday, just three months before winter!

    I’m using this thread as a log and questionnaire, mainly for myself. This is primarily a hearth build but secondary, a start of our kitchen renovation. I will not be featuring any kitchen remodeling here although some things may intersect... like leveling and bracing floors, knocking down walls, and plumbing. This is a very ambitious build. The chimney will be added later on in the coming weeks and may or may not feature a build. My ETA to get the hearth completed is two weeks. Time spent mostly after work and weekend warrior’ing.

    We decided on this location because it’s in the center of the house. There is, or was a sink and dish washer here but we’re moving that to a kitchen island with bench area. So some things like water and drain pipes will be getting moved.

    This is an old New England house. We purchased not too long ago so I expect to find a lot of surprises and halfassery along the way. I’m not a carpenter but I’ve done my homework which I hope is just enough for a job well done.

    The stove going in I’s a Jutol F500, which I have featured here before.
     
  2. KJamesJR

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    So I went to Lowe’s and picked up most everything I need. Surprised it wasn’t packed given the fact it’s Laborday. Walked out with a new miter saw I wasn’t expecting to purchase but the price was right and figured I needed one anyway. No better time then the present.

    Got home and immediately started ripping the cabinets out. I know it’s an old house, but the amount of mouse poop unearthed was staggering. Wife almost vomited on the spot.

    I was also bamboozled. This brick wall I expected to go to the floor. Instead it stops on a small stud wall, who’s primary objective is supporting the weight of said bricks and hiding some outlets that haven’t been seen in x amount of years.
     

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  3. KJamesJR

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    Got most of the mouse poop cleaned up. I’m hoping these were mice already killed by my cats and these are simply the remanence.

    Then I spent the better part of my day tearing up THREE layers of hardwood floor. Between each layer, a layer of that cheap sticky tile.

    I started cutting into it with a skill saw, at full depth, but when I started pulling up tile which seemed to date back to the 70’s I stopped cutting by fear of asbestos. These tile were about two layers of wood floor down. I switched to a more noninvasive technique of prying/scrapping the decades old tile with a scraper and prybar. Took me a lot longer than I was expecting. I fianally finished and ended my night when I reached the original floor layer. 1” oak with just pine board underlayment. Amazing still in good condition all things considered.

    I got the overall layout roughed in which pretty much ends my night.

    I’m debating on taking the floor all the way down to the joists and using new 3/4” underlay after I add supports and leveling. I know it’s the right way to do it but the existing floor is in decent condition. I will still have to work on the joists topside as there’s just no room from underneath. Decisions...
     

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  4. xman23

    xman23
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    Keep us posted, you never know we might be able to help with the decisions. Even with issues those floors can be made to look real nice. Assuming it's oak. Whats the vintage of the house?
     
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  5. Ashful

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    The top layer is yellow pine, but given the back-side milling and the presence of pith in the plank, not as old as it’s surface might have you thinking. Can’t tell what the layers below are, from the photo posted. Is that middle layer plywood?
     
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  6. KJamesJR

    KJamesJR
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    Ah sorry for the late response. I’ve been very busy as if late. Typically I get notifications when someone replies to a thread but this time I didn’t.

    The top layer was pine. Then a layer of linoleum, followed by two layers of thin sub flooring. After that, another layer of linoleum. Or it also could have been some kind of asbestos. Was cemented down on top of another layer of pine. I stopped when I hit a layer of oak plant boards. They varied in width from 3” to 4”. Beneath that, a layer of pine plank boards (original subfloor?).
     
  7. KJamesJR

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    Progress...

    I was hoping to have this done in two weeks, but I’ve had some minor setbacks. Mostly with figuring out which one of the circuits was when I removed the electrical outlets from the wall.

    Wife and I decided to knock down the entire wall. It wasn’t load bearing. I successfully moved the dishwasher outlet to our center island. Also removed two other circuits on that wall.... also got the plumbing moved to the center island.

    I braced the floor with posts and beams every 2’ on center by 8’ to prepare the floor for the additional weight. Probably overkill.

    Layed some strapping and shims I salvaged from some extra lumber I had lying around to give a nice even surface for the 3/4” plywood to go down. I started running out of larger cuts for the ply, but my math told me otherwise and I had just enough to puzzle piece some smaller cuts in there. I’m no expert carpenter but when trying to fit straight even cuts and angels between 250 year old construction , you’re gonna have some gaps. I will admit, I’m more confident in my ability to lay wire and pipe water lines at this point.

    Didn’t really matter though because once the duroc was down you couldn’t tell. Just finished laying that tonight. Floor is dead level and solid.

    Tomorrow morning I will start prepping for laying the brick. I salvaged some 18th century brick from a chimney tear down. They were free to me, I just need to clean them up. Need to button up a few walls and such but no big deal.

    Today is the last day of summer I believe. Getting this stove in is priority number one as of now.
     

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  8. KJamesJR

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    My question now concerning the chimney as I will be placing my order within the following week...

    I have exactly 8’ from the top of the stove to the ceiling. I’m going through a cathedral type ceiling so will be using a support box. Surely I will not be buying exactly 8’ of pipe? The box needs to drop down 2”. Then there’s the adapter for double wall black to triple wall chimney... what should I plan for in this situation?

    7’ of double wall black pipe, then drop the support box 12”??? Or am I over thinking it?
     
  9. Ashful

    Ashful
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    No answer on the chimney, you should delete that post and repost it in the main Hearth Room forum, for a better response.

    What is the age of this house? Subfloors were not common up thru Victorian era, unless it was a very expensive house / mansion. Those old yellow pine or oak floors people find under their carpet were often the floor, not a subfloor.
     
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  10. KJamesJR

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    The house was built in 1776. The kitchen was an add on. Not sure what the date was. By the looks of the construction I’d say some time in the 1800’s. The framing for the floors is notched 2x6 set into what looks like 8x8” oak sills.
     
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  11. KJamesJR

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    Started dismantling what I thought was a superficial shelf type area right above were the wood stove is going so I’d have room for a straight pipe. Turns out there’s a beam in there tied into the roof. So I can’t rightly remove that. Looks like I will need a double walled pipe offset. Something I wanted to avoid. Hopefully it doesn’t kill the efficiency of the stove too much.
     
  12. KJamesJR

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    This thing right here. Didn’t see the 2x beam because when I looked in weeks before starting the project, it was right under my nose.
     

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  13. begreen

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    Shouldn't affect the efficiency much at all. FYI, you would be better off going with a quality double-wall chimney system instead of cheap triple wall. This is infrastructure and the price difference over the life of the system is trivial. The quality and insulation is better. Also, double-wall chimney is smaller in diameter so smaller holes are needed.
     
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  14. KJamesJR

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    Okay. I was considering the DuraPlus chimney. Is this not a good option? I thought it was insulated stainless chimney pipe?
     
  15. KJamesJR

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    Stack of repurposed brick. Before and cleaned. Did a dry lay to get a template. Some of these bricks still have fingerprints in them which I thought was kind of interesting.

    Looks like I’m going to have to offset the pipe which will put it over the stove. Hopefully this happens high enough to still leave some headroom.
     

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  16. kennyp2339

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    telescoping double wall is your friend here
     
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  17. KJamesJR

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    Ran out of mortar but it’s nearly complete. Took a break to go apple picking with the family.
     

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  18. bholler

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    That is triple wall. It does have a thin layer of insulation a middle wall air space then outer wall. It is safe and will work but regular double wall insulated was twice the insulation and works better
     
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  19. KJamesJR

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    So double wall is better than triple wall? I'm going to need roughly 9' of chimney if that helps.

    Is Champion a good brand? I was looking at their double wall stove pipe (interior).

    Are stove/chimney pipe universal? Will double wall from brand 'x' fit into triple wall from brand 'y'?
     
  20. bholler

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    Yes champion is just rebranded ventis pipe which is a premium product. And yes you can use a different brand pipe with a chimney
     
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  21. KJamesJR

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    Hearth is done. I’m going to do some trim and cabinet work to finish it off, touch up the joints and edges, shine it up, but the hard part is done. At least now I I have solid foundation to build something warm and cozy to finish the space.

    I would still say the most gruesome part of the labor was tearing out the floor. Once I got the strapping down the rest was pretty easy and rather enjoyable. You could just build a frame and brick or tile over that. I didn’t want the stove or the hearth sitting too high above the floor. To each their own.

    Stay tuned in the following weeks for a follow up and some finalized pictures. I was thinking about adding in a back wall because I still have a ton of bricks left. Maybe 4’ high with a mantle on top. Not sure yet.
     

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  22. KJamesJR

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    So I think I’m going to go with the champion pipe from Woodstock and the DuraPlus from Home Depot. I need some help on my setup. Want to make sure I have all the required parts and that they will all come together in the end.

    Chimney pipe, DuraPlus 36" * 3
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraVent-DuraPlus-6-in-Dia-x-36-in-L-Stainless-Steel-Triple-Wall-Chimney-Stove-Pipe-6DP-36SS/100144227

    Cathedral Ceiling Kit
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/DuraVent-DuraPlus-6-in-Triple-Wall-Basic-Through-The-Ceiling-Chimney-Stove-Pipe-Vent-Kit-6DP-KBSC/100115151

    Roof Flashing
    https://www.woodlanddirect.com/6-inch-DuraPlus-Adjustable-Roof-Flashing

    I need to order separate because the ceiling kit doesn't include the flashing for my roof pitch. I thought I'd just get the flashing shipped along with my stove pipe.

    Someone had mentioned using telescoping pipe to mate into the support box. So here it is. This may change once I've set the stove on the hearth.
    https://www.woodlanddirect.com/6-Premium-Double-Wall-Black-Telescoping-Stove-Pipe-28-50-length

    Double wall stove pipe 36" * 1 Going from stove to offset.
    https://www.woodlanddirect.com/6-Premium-Double-Wall-Black-Stove-Pipe-36-length

    Double wall 45 degree offset * 2
    https://www.woodlanddirect.com/6-Premium-Double-Wall-Black-Stove-Pipe-45-Fixed-Elbow

    Going to connect the two together for my offset, away and up. Should give me enough clearance from the ceiling joist.

    I will need to include a support bracket for the chimney, I simply haven't added it to the list yet.

    That's my purposed chimney system. My only concern is if the two different manufactured pipe brands will mate together at the support box properly. I was going to go with a complete system from Champion, but it seems as you're paying a premium for a lifetime warrantee that's only honored if the system is installed by a certified installer. Because I'm doing the install myself and getting the cert from the fire department for insurance, I decided to go with the more friendly DIY'er system from DuraVent and save about $460. That's not including what I'd be paying someone else to do it for me.
     
  23. bholler

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    Again i would recomend going with a doublewall insulated chimney instead of the triplewall dura plus. They really do perform much better.
     
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  24. KJamesJR

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    Okay, ya'll convinced me to go double wall insulation on the Chimney.

    My options are Selkirk Ultra Temp, Selkirk SuperPro, Duratech, Champion. Can anyone vouch for any of these manufactures? Selkirk seems to be the more budget friendly, specially given the 15% off at Northline Express.

    Champion I like because everything is stainless steel. this includes the roof flashing, storm collar and roof bracket. Selkirk nor Duratech seem to have an entire stainless system although I could be wrong. It does look stainless, only the pipe.

    EDIT:

    The Selkirk Ultra Temp does look like a complete stainless system. Seems to be their higher end line but the price is reasonable. Think I found my chimney system. Going to match with Duravent double wall stove pipe.
     
  25. KJamesJR

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    Spoke to a rep from Northline Express this evening. Said Selkirk chimney is only compatible with Selkirk Stove pipe. Not sure I believe her.
     

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