Tonight, I miss my old stove..(BKK questions)

[Todd]

I'm convinced those Condar probe thermometers are not accurate and read on the high side, especially at higher temps. They have that spring dial thingy under the dial that is greatly effected by radiant heat off the plate steal or the cooler air from your blowers. Turn off your blowers and just put your lips together and blow on that thermometer, I bet the temp will drop drastically. A real thermo couple would be more accurate, these Condar's are just a guide.

I would just ignore those higher cat temps, your all probably fine unless the probe is pegged for a long time or you have a raging inferno going on inside.

 

[SolarAndWood]

This morning the cat temp was 1000, so turned the fans off...the cat temp increased to 1500 in a matter of seconds...I left the fans off...the cat temp slowly dropped to about 1000 over the course of 1 hour.

That's interesting. Sounds like it behaves properly, just takes forever to make the adjustment. I wonder if you and Beetle Kill are experiencing slow t-stats? Does it take as long to increase temperature as decrease? For example, if you are running at steady state with the blowers off and then turn them on, does the stove cool off or does it maintain temperature?

 

[SolarAndWood]

Just another thought...maybe we have different ideas as to what is considered overheating, when talking about the cat temp.

At 1700* and above, the numbered thermometer indicates this is too hot. So, I have been running the fans in order to avoid this area on the thermometer. But, the stock blaze king thermometer does not indicate this is too hot. I have never reached that 2000* mark, so I'm not sure if the cat temp would settle out before going over that...thus not requiring the fans to keep it under control. Perhaps I'm worrying about nothing and don't need to run the fans when the cat temperature gets in that "too hot" range. SolarAndWood, do you ever see cat temps in that "too hot" range? If so, what do you do?

I have the stock thermometer and run it to the top of the active zone whenever I need the heat. I have gone over it a few times and that is when it starts to stink like hot stove. Probably down near the r on your Condar branded thermometer. It was stable but too warm. I think it happened with a full load of small split pine and super dry semi punk that I let go too long at 3.5 after I closed the bypass. I turned the tstat down and turned the blowers on to suck some heat off the stove while it cooled down. Then, turned them back off. Didn't seem to hurt anything but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

My personal opinion, that was a disclaimer BTW, is that you should ignore the too hot on the Condar branded thermometer as I routinely run in that range and have put over 10 cord through the stove with no perceived negative result. Cat still lights right off, stove behaves properly, etc. The only problem I have had is I had to adjust the door catch earlier this season. I found the stove not responding properly to the tstat and found gaps when doing the dollar bill test. Two turns of the catch solved the problem.

 

[jtb51b]

This morning the cat temp was 1000, so turned the fans off...the cat temp increased to 1500 in a matter of seconds...I left the fans off...the cat temp slowly dropped to about 1000 over the course of 1 hour.

That's interesting. Sounds like it behaves properly, just takes forever to make the adjustment. I wonder if you and Beetle Kill are experiencing slow t-stats? Does it take as long to increase temperature as decrease? For example, if you are running at steady state with the blowers off and then turn them on, does the stove cool off or does it maintain temperature?

My thermostat is as slow as theirs. My bet is wetter than yours wood, for all 3 of us.. I put a load of DRY DRY maple (7-8%MC)in and mine behaves like yours at that point.. I have gotten used to mine but my money is on wetter wood. I will do better next year, I promise.. Its already put up..

Jason

 

[SolarAndWood]

My thermostat is as slow as theirs. My bet is wetter than yours wood, for all 3 of us.. I put a load of DRY DRY maple (7-8%MC)in and mine behaves like yours at that point.. I have gotten used to mine but my money is on wetter wood.

Maybe that's it. I burn the crap out of anything that is less than ideal before I close the bypass. Not sure why it would still behave like that 12 hours into fdegree's burn though.

 

[rdust]

I would just ignore those higher cat temps, your all probably fine unless the probe is pegged for a long time or you have a raging inferno going on inside.

Great advice imo, sometimes too much information is a bad thing. I'm not familiar with CAT temps but will 1700 vs 2000 make any longevity difference?

 

[jtb51b]

My thermostat is as slow as theirs. My bet is wetter than yours wood, for all 3 of us.. I put a load of DRY DRY maple (7-8%MC)in and mine behaves like yours at that point.. I have gotten used to mine but my money is on wetter wood.

Maybe that's it. I burn the crap out of anything that is less than ideal before I close the bypass. Not sure why it would still behave like that 12 hours into fdegree's burn though.

Maybe its just that the firebox is that big, and the burn rate is slow enough to still have some wood not yet fully outgassed at that point? I have had wood become sheltered somehow and be nearly untouched by the fire until I manually move them in.. Strange but true..

Jason

 

[learnin to burn]

R G - That said, if there is enough insulation along a particular thermal path, the cooling by that path is trivial, which may be what LTB meant by “there isn’t enough temp difference to overcome the insulation in this case.�

Yes

R G - Perhaps LTB simply meant that knowing what he does about the stove layout, he doesn’t think cooling the skin would cool the cat much, and if so I take his point.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

F Degree- Those pic's help Thanks. 1 thing- the marks on the BK thermometer are not = to the numbered thermometer. Look at them a little closer. The Bk shows the active zone starting a lot lower on the scale than the first mark. The numbered thermometer has the inactive zone going almost up to the 600 degree mark. (I'm guessing 550 on the scale.) 550 is the lowest light off temp for a ceramic cat while 500 is the lowest light off for the metal cat.

 

[Todd]

Actually I heard the metal cats lite off as low as 380 and the ceramic cats lite off at about 500.

 

[learnin to burn]

Good Info Todd. 500 and 550 were the temps the BK rep quoted so that's what I was going by.

 

[North of 60]

I was told yesterday that the SS CATS will be no more through BK as an option or new install for the time being. They are staying with ceramics.
Rumor being that to many where plugging.
I think that if temps where so important that #s would have been put on them with LIMIT indicator's to protect their product. If your needle stays within the scale. Run the stove. There is 20 yr CAT stoves out there being run by people that dont have a clue what is supposed to happen. The stoves survive. As far as the fan goes... Many purchase the stoves and run without them. IT IS AN OPTION. One thing for sure is that your flue gases should be lower than your stove top temp. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
Relax you guys.

 

[fdegree]

I wonder if you and Beetle Kill are experiencing slow t-stats? Does it take as long to increase temperature as decrease? For example, if you are running at steady state with the blowers off and then turn them on, does the stove cool off or does it maintain temperature?

I didn’t mean to highjack B-K’s thread, but I didn’t realize this was a problem until he started this thread…I thought this was just the nature of the beast…hopefully this is helping him too. Anyway, here are details of the latest reload, with an attempt to minimize the running of the fans.

7:00 pm I opened the bypass and set t’stat to 3.5…fully loaded the stove…cat temp was at 300
7:15 the flames were fairly prominent, so I reduce the t’stat setting to 2.5
7:25 the cat temp reached 550, so I closed the bypass and reduced the t’stat to a setting between 2.0 and 2.25
7:40 the cat temp reached 1500
8:45 the cat temp reached 1900
9:30 the cat temp was 1800, and I turned the fans on low in an attempt to answer SolarAndWoods question
10:00 the cat temp dropped to 1500, so I turned the fans off
10:05 the cat temp increased to 1900
10:30 the cat temp is well over 2000, so I turned the fans in high
10:45 the cat temp dropped to 1200, so I turned the fans off
10:50 the cat temp increased to 1700
11:00 the cat temp was at 1500 and slowly dropping
I went to bed and left the fans off
5:00 am…cat temp was 1500…the cat temp spiked up to 1900 sometime during the night (I had a piece of aluminum foil on the thermometer so it would show how high it went over night)…the house temp dropped from 71, at 11:00 last night, to 67, at 5:00 this morning…so I turned the fans on low to warm up the house a little, but also to answer SolarAndWoods question once again
5:10 the cat temp dropped to 1000, so I turned the fans off
5:30 the cat temp increased to 1200

So, is this normal, abnormal, nothing to worry about…

Now, I need to go to work

I think that if temps where so important that #s would have been put on them with LIMIT indicator's to protect their product. If your needle stays within the scale. Run the stove. There is 20 yr CAT stoves out there being run by people that dont have a clue what is supposed to happen. The stoves survive. As far as the fan goes... Many purchase the stoves and run without them. IT IS AN OPTION. One thing for sure is that your flue gases should be lower than your stove top temp. KEEP IT SIMPLE.
Relax you guys.

Probably, very good advice

 

[learnin to burn]

Hey North glad to see your back from your sabbatical.

One thing for sure is that your flue gases should be lower than your stove top temp. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

one thing confusing this issue is Beetle has a probe thermometer in his flue which is always going to read higher than a magnetic one. If he had a magnetic one in it's place he wouldn't be seeing temps over 250 or so.

I think that was addressed earlier in the thread.

 

[SolarAndWood]

any ideas on the apparently slow tstat reaction?

 

[learnin to burn]

F degree- Looks normal to me but I would be suspect of the actual temps, but I have the stock thermometer.


Solar - I'm still working on a reason for the slow t-stat as Mine is slow too. Case in point - I loaded the stove at 5:15 left the t-stat on 3.5 @ 5:45 stove was 650 cat at top of range, dropped t-stat to 2.5. 6:00 there is still flames in the box but they did slowly reduce. last year the flames would have died right out and given me a nice light show. I'll only get that now if I turn it down to 2.

Off to work.

 

[Renovation]

So, is this normal, abnormal, nothing to worry about…

What do you think about calling Blaze King, and asking them? I would hope they could add to this conversation. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if someone from BK is reading this thread.

And I do not think this is OT for the OP. Both of you are worried about excessive cat temps.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Hey guy's, I have nothing new to report, wasn't able to contact BK yesterday- in Vail on a job site. But FD's stove temps. and times are similar to mine, just not the cat. temp (I turn the fans on higher when it shows above 1600 or so)- plus my flue temps get up there. Don't anybody worry about highjacking this thread, the more information shared the better off we'll all be. I'll check in tonight, 'cause the wife won't be home 'till late- so the comp. will be mine.

 

[BLAZE82]

On the slow tstat reaction, those of you with the slow reaction time, have you looked inside at the back of the firebox wall to make sure that there isn't a good bit of creosote build up? I know on the king model there is a shield back there but it might be worth wild to see if there is creosote build up behind this shield after all the tstat is getting its temp readings off that back wall.

 

[jtb51b]

The thermostat is higher up than the firebox. It is actually in cat/flue area.

Jason

 

[BLAZE82]

That is true but heat still travels up that back wall and if there is a good bit of creosote build up behind that rear shield it could act like insulation not allowing much heat transfer. also this may have already been mentioned but have you checked the bypass adjustment? and made sure that when the bypass is closed it's closing tight.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

Blaze- What do you use to clean those areas behind the shields? I've got some flaky stuff in the back and sides, and fluff up top. I was wondering about a flex-cable with a chunk of scotch-brite on one end. Still working on that, unless someone has any ideas on this. And yeah, I checked the bypass and it's tight enough to tear a dollar bill.

 

[Beetle-Kill]

OK, I spoke with Blaze King this afternoon. It was Dave, Dan, or Doug- his name started with a "D". He didn't have any answers for me, at least any I liked. His answer to my high flue temps. was to attach a mag. temp. guage on the outside of the dbl. wall, then I'd see 250-300 temps. Uh, DUH! He had no answers to my questions, but the more I talked with him, the more convinced I became he was NOT the guy to talk to. The T-stat is a "very simple, foolproof" item, used for 30 years without problems. Period. Hey Rustyshackleford, ya hear that?! Foolproof. Like I said, not the guy to talk to. He also thought 550 was plenty hot, for stovetop temps. THEN he goes on to say most of the calls he gets are complaints about the stove not getting hot enough. I think I was an idiot caller from the get go, in his mind. I may call back next week to speak to Chris, or I may just clean the piss out of it, remove the T-stat housing and see what's going on in there, and deal with it. "D" was nice enough to hold up a T-stat to the phone, and audibly demonstrate the noise a T-stat flapper makes. I was dumber for the conversation, and getting dumber is tough for me to do anymore. Once you're there........

 

[SolarAndWood]

well that was inspiring

 

[Beetle-Killer]

Umm.. yeah. You could hear the disinterest in his voice. He must be near retirement, or vacation, or maybe he left the coffee pot on, or....

 

[Renovation]

Dang, that's disappointing.

If I were the CEO of Blaze King, I'd have someone monitoring this forum, and, after reading this thread I'd tell my staff "If anyone calls with a question about high cat versus stove top temps, give him the royal treatment and send him a free t-shirt!"

Thus concludes today's armchair quarterback session.

Is your cat still under warranty? How about taking Solar's burning advice, and let the chips fall where they may?