Vermont Castings 2022 Dauntless Stove Adapter?

[GrumpyDad]

So as I was leaving the store with my new stove a couple weeks ago, a Vermont Casting Dauntless that was manufactured in June 2022, the store person who checked me out as I'm walking out the door, said oh btw you will want to call Vermont Castings to find out where to buy their stove adapter. I did a quick search and didn't turn anything suggesting this was the case. However a few days ago I saw someone complain that they had to alter an adapter to work on the dauntless.

So I then checked the ID of my stove, it's actually 6 and 1/8 ID. The stove adapter Im using, it's hard to tell what they are measuring, however in the diagram it's pretty apparently they measure OD for the width of the pipe overall, so it would be safe to assume OD for the flange itself. It would be nice if the dimensions are spelled out here https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-dvl-adapter-section-no-damper-6dvl-ad-6733.html
Even if they were using ID, I can't imagine the width of the metal itself would make up 3/8 + of an inch gap!

Am I missing out on a trade secret here? Is there some sort of fiber caulking one is expected to use to seal this gigantic gap? Or does my stove indeed require a special adapter?

EDIT: So I inspected the stove opening. It seems like there are two bumps on the side almost like a cast defect (possibly intentional) on the inside of the opening. Im not sure if it does but it appears it MIGHT taper in closer. Very hard to tell without being able to get a tape in there. Hopefully someone with experience with these stoves can chime in if Im going to run into install issues when my parts arrive.

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Not sure if an adapter is needed for DVL pipe. The inner liner is 6". That sounds like a good fit for a 6 1/8" ID flue collar and similar to our stove which doesn't need an adapter for the DVL connector.
The DVL adapter size is shown in the second image on the Northline Express page as 5 5/8" which is too small.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Not sure if an adapter is needed for DVL pipe. The inner liner is 6". That sounds like a good fit for a 6 1/8" ID flue collar and similar to our stove which doesn't need an adapter for the DVL connector.
The DVL adapter size is shown in the second image on the Northline Express page as 5 5/8" which is too small.

You just totally blew my mind. Lol. But it makes sense. Thanks be Green! Hopefully it works out for a one day install. I hate extra parts or waiting for parts to finish a job 90percent done.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Ugh. So I finally got my parts and I'm starting to think the store that sold me this was right. They are having a hard time getting a hold of vc for answers.
My DVL pipe inner wall fits inside the stove collar and the outside wall of the DVL goes on the outside of stove collar....but due to a really odd shape of the stove collar the DVL only inserts 1/4 of an inch. That's not going to work. The screw holes on the stove collar would require a pipe that somehow wraps around this weird stove collar that also flares out as you go down. See pics
Any suggestions?

 

[begreen]

What is stopping the DVL from inserting deeper? Is the flue collar tapered so that it increases in diameter?

 

[GrumpyDad]

What is stopping the DVL from inserting deeper? Is the flue collar tapered so that it increases in diameter?

The stove collar gets wider as you go down .

 

[GrumpyDad]

Vermont castings got back to me, and now I'm really confused. They are recommending two stove adapters, one of which is single wall when I look at the model number. Are they telling me to shove a single wall into the double wall or stack them starting with the single wall?
My seller said we have no idea what to tell you, we just sell the stuff.
The 6DVL-AD is double wall
the 6DBK-AD is not

3k for this stove...not a single ounce of help from VC or the seller. Had I known, I would have never bought a VC.

Our Recommendation is as follows:

If using DuraVent double wall pipe the 6DVL-AD stove pipe adapter along with 6DBK-AD double wall adapter will give a better fit.
Your local authorized dealer is your best resource and can assist you with technical support as well as obtaining new parts if necessary. I have included a link below to find an authorized dealer near you.

 

[begreen]

The stove collar gets wider as you go down .

It looked that way in the picture. Is the outside edge of the DVL binding on the flue collar or is the inner liner bottoming out on the flue collar attachment brackets? If it is on the inner brackets, the crimped inner pipe of the DVL could be notched 1/2" to clear the brackets. If the outer jacket of the DVL is binding then a short extension may need to be spliced onto the inner liner of the DVL.

 

[GrumpyDad]

It looked that way in the picture. Is the outside edge of the DVL binding on the flue collar or is the inner liner bottoming out on the flue collar attachment brackets? If it is on the inner brackets, the crimped inner pipe of the DVL could be notched 1/2" to clear the brackets. If the outer jacket of the DVL is binding then a short extension may need to be spliced onto the inner liner of the DVL.

The inner liner of the stove pipe fits snug but not too firm. It's because the outside of the stoves collar flares wider as it goes down into the stove. And then there is that weird but out that is merged with the stove so that would be the absolute limit of how far the stove could recess down into the stove collar on the outside of the collar. There is no limitation of the depth on the inside of the stove collar. There are no brackets of any sort just three hole where you would faster the stove pipe or stove adapter. I really have never seen anything like this before in any of the stoves I looked at recently at stores or friends.
I cannot imagine the expectation is to rig some sort of single wall pipe into or outside of a double wall pipe. First it would be extremely difficult I would imagine and second doesn't they defeat my clearances which I intentionally bought this stove for the 12 with double wall clearances. Or maybe I'm not understanding what needs to happen.
Dealer is getting a call tomorrow and I suspect a 1.5 hour drive to drop this off this weekend if I can't get answers, and then I'll just get the jotul Greenville. So frustrating

 

[GrumpyDad]

I realize I didnt REALLY answer your question very well.
The outside wall stove pipe cannot go further in the stove flue collar as it. widens the further down you go. So I can only get about 1/4 of an inch of stove pipe onto the stove collar, and would need a good bit more to fasten it with screws.
The inside sits snugly inside but very easy to move around. That seems to be a constant size from top until when the opening widens from the stove collar.

*Edit*: I called northline express, the lady there said I should order the 6dvl-ad. I asked what the OD was on the flare of the 6dvl-ad, she said 5 5/8. That's a BIG gap from my stove which is 6" ID and the flare on the 6dvl-ad which is 5 5/8 OD. Supposedly it should fit snug, but there's no way that's going to fit snug. Do people just leave these sitting on there without fastening? I cant imagine screws are going to 'bite' into the flare with that much of a gap.
What im going to end up having is a flare that sits inside the stove, and the outside wall of this adapter only 1/4" again over the outside wall of the flue collar.
That doesnt sit well with me. What if someone throws a ball and hits the stove pipe without telling me, or the cat bounces off of it, or just from the shaking as people walk by, eventually that is going to pop loose. I would have to fasten this somehow.

 

[vernorz]

Can you just use a short length of single wall pipe to connect to the stove then to the adaptor?

 

[GrumpyDad]

Can you just use a short length of single wall pipe to connect to the stove then to the adaptor?

Honestly, Im not sure. I do know that the Dura co puts in bold , never to mix single and double wall pipe. I read somewhere that this is because 1. it wont fit properly and 2. even if you get it to fit, people will expect their entire pipe system to last a long time, as opposed to single wall that may fail much sooner, and a failure at the stove collar would mean a disconnected pipe and potentially hot embers shooting up all over combustibles.
Im sitting here trying to think how I can make something like that work though. Single wall is 6" ID and 6 1/8" OD. The 6" MIGHT fit into my stove if I were to crimp it/cut it, then my double wall would have to sit over that, but I think that is the reverse of the flow where those two would marry.
Not to mention, even a 6" piece would require me to change my clearances from 12, to 16" from the wall. Right now I'm at around 13.5 inches, and dont have the room without breaking code / clearances on the frontage of my hearth pad.
VC's idea of using the single wall in combo with the double wall stove adapters has me scratching me head for two reasons. 1. how the heck did they expect people to install this with double wall pipe and 2. what in the world do they mean.

 

[vernorz]

I'm not sure what DVL pipe looks like but can you cut the outer wall a little bit so the inner can go into the stove collar a little deeper?

 

[GrumpyDad]

I'm not sure what DVL pipe looks like but can you cut the outer wall a little bit so the inner can go into the stove collar a little deeper?

Hey thanks for replying and carrying on this conversation / thought process.

Im not sure I can answer your question, best I can say is. MAYBE, and I did buy a 6" piece because I know working with pipe I always need a short piece for fudgery. Im not sure how far down I could go because at some point there begins the double wall pipe, and I would be concerned with breaching the integrity of that.

DVL pipe has a two walls. The ID of the pipe is 6" and the OD is 7". The ID sits perfectly inside my stove flue collar, and the OD sits perfectly on the outside of the stove, but the outside part gets wider as it goes down - which I have not seen on ANY stove I've checked out so far, from cast iron to steel welded. If this were not the case, Id already have this thing installed and likely complaining about other things like blowtorch sounds, over firing the secondary chamber, back puffing .

 

[GrumpyDad]

OK for all trying to solve this, I'll let you know how it goes.
Supposedly the cryptic message from VC they sent me, is also in their pricing book that goes to dealers. It reads verbatim "If using DuraVent double wall pipe the 6DVL-AD stove pipe adapter along with 6DBK-AD double wall adapter will give a better fit."

What they fail to realize is that the 6dbk-ad is NOT a double wall adapter, that is DURA BLACK which is a single wall stove pipe adapter/stove pipe.

My store talked to their installers who all said at first they were fashioning something out of stainless steel, but then learned the trick of using the single wall stove adapter first, then the double wall over that. That's a head scratcher to me, and obviously I do not want ANY part of single wall exposed. They said the double wall adapter slides all the way to the lip of the single wall, and the heat shield should take care of excess heat from having that small ~1" single wall portion of the single wall stove adapter exposed.

I have my doubts if the dvl pipe will slid up to the knuckle on the single wall. From the videos I watched it goes inside.

Not to mention, this is backwards now and creosote could leak in.

This is a big -1 for me and VC.

 

[begreen]

The single-wall adapter, or the stub suggested earlier, could be shielded on the wall side to maintain clearances.

 

[GrumpyDad]

As Im sure someone will wonder into these forums with the same issue, I should provide an update here.
Thanks to begreen and other folks for responding.

In short: You WILL need a single wall stove adapter AND a double wall. At least, if you are using Duravent double wall stove pipe. The single wall adapter model number is

6DBK-AD​

and the double wall adapter model number is
6DVL-AD

IF you are just using single wall pipe, you wont need the double wall adapter as well.
If you are using double wall pipe:
First, the single wall stove adapter gets pushed as hard as you can inside the stove flue collar, then you use a rubber mallet to gently tap it to seat it further. You shouldnt see any of the flaring sticking up outside the stove, seated up to the seating 'rib'. It should be near impossible or really difficult to move this adapter out of the flue collar at this point. Next you place the double wall adapter on top of this. It doesnt seat snug, it just seats on top of. And then build your pipe up and out.
I didnt have screws long enough to tap through the double wall adapter into the single wall adapter. This actually helped me when I was aligning my pipe etc to the ceiling support. Everything seems to be seating equally and firmly, but I do want to screw the two together, hopefully that wont present a problem.

Im attaching a picture of what the stove looks like with both adapters installed on the stove. You can barely see the single wall adapter with the double wall on top of it.

I did a test fire, small one with a good bit of thicker kindling in log cabin format. Then I added a couple of logs. I left the room for an adult beverage, and returned in panic as the room was filled with smoke. When I started the fire I had smoke pouring into the room and then closed the doors. I guess a little looks like alot when you walk into a room.
Then I noticed smoke coming out from all over the stove. I thought I over heated it and cracked the seals, I thought it was defective, I thought I screwed up. Im still abit worried, but I'm pretty sure it was just smoke from manufacturing oils etc coming off the stove. It was late when I fired this up for the first time. I couldnt pass up the opportunity! I had just finished the install at around 11p ish, and as this is at our cabin, and we had to return home the next day, I knew I couldnt do a test fire the next day as we had to leave somewhat early. We have a fireplace as well and never burn on Sundays as we have to return home by Sunday evening. Wife woke up, freaked out because she smelled smoke and 'chemicals. She was right. It did smell pretty bad. Between the pipe and the stove, there was a bad smell all throughout. I had to take an air filtration system into the bedroom area to stave that off and open some windows. I then watched the fire for the next couple of hours, listening to 'my music' and drinking beers.
Hopefully I will get many opportunities to test/use this thing in the coming near future. I want to work out any issues I may have before it really gets cold. When I fired this up, it was pretty warm inside and outside. It felt warm to walk up to but I could still touch the stove pipe walls about 12" up briefly. The stove was too hot to touch 'iron hot'. and the wooden wall to the right was damn hot which I will need to monitor (im at minimum clearances +1"). The goal is to put a dinning area to the left of the stove, this is an addition I put on. SO I couldnt really move it left much more and bought this stove (and looked at others) because the clearance was what it was. I really didnt feel the room being warmer. BUT I also had to open a couple of windows because of the smell.
After adding the logs, it was kind of a bummer because I really didnt get to see the flames much anymore after awhile. It just burned slowly with an occasional flame showing up. I eventually got bored, tested the smoke detectors in that room and went to bed.
The next day, my wife said she walked into that room and said it was noticeable warmer, even with two windows being open.

I can verify that top loading is amazing. I cant imagine having to open door, moving stuff around then trying to get wood in there piled up enough. This is made to be stacked to the top (VC's words), and I look forward to testing that out some day. I was also pretty surprised how quickly this thing will heat up and produce heat. I was a bit worried that I wouldnt really get much heat for hours after firing it up. This is great for us because I have no other source of heat in this area. When we arrive during the winter evenings Friday evening, it will likely be in low 20s or less. I do plan to do something else and have oil heat elsewhere, so I could extend with a flexible ductwork into this place to take the edge off. There is a big opening that leads to the main cabin, whereas heat does make its way into this expansion. I want to get rid of that oil heater though. I am looking at mini splits potentially but I really really hate they way they look on the walls. The oil heater we have now is over 30 years old, and it takes up precious real estate that I would like to use for a mini bar.

 

[begreen]

The stove pipe should be screwed to the flue collar. And each joint of the stove pipe gets secured with 3 screws 120º apart.
New, painted stoves smoke a lot as the paint is breaking in. We often advise people to break in their stoves outdoors if possible, or at least open the windows and put a fan in one to exhaust the fumes outdoors.

The manual recommends 3-4 break in fires but with little guidance. Generally, this is done with a small fire at first, then gradually larger fires. Something like 300º, 400º, 500º for the first 3 fires. Do you have a cat thermometer or stovetop thermometer for the stove? The stove paint will be fully baked-in after a few 500-600º stovetop temp fires.

 

[Corie]

OP: Just sent you the bulletin I published confirming what you were told. Apologize I'm not on the forum more often to answer these questions as they come up.

 

[GrumpyDad]

OP: Just sent you the bulletin I published confirming what you were told. Apologize I'm not on the forum more often to answer these questions as they come up.

Corie, thanks so much for the response. Very reassuring. IM back to giving VC the +1 that I originally had when I first saw it and read up about it.

 

[begreen]

Thanks Corie. Can you share this in the main forum for other prospective Dauntless owners?

 

[t0asty]

I am installing stove pipe this weekend for the VC Encore that I just bought, flu collar looks similar on your Dauntless as mine. @GrumpyDad was this resolved? Just want to make sure as I will likely use this thread as guidance. Thanks!

 

[GrumpyDad]

I am installing stove pipe this weekend for the VC Encore that I just bought, flu collar looks similar on your Dauntless as mine. @GrumpyDad was this resolved? Just want to make sure as I will likely use this thread as guidance. Thanks!

If you are using Duravent DVL or Durablack, you will be fine as long as you got the right parts.

If the DVL, you will need both
The single wall adapter model number is

6DBK-AD​

and the double wall adapter model number is
6DVL-AD

If you are just using durablack single wall stove pipe, all you will need is 6DBK-AD.
If you are using some other manufacturer, Im not sure what options you have available to you, however likely something similar in the corresponding lineup (single wall adapter gently pounded into the stove collar, then a double wall adapter that sits on top of that)

The end result should look like what I pictured above as the two are connected together onto the stove.

 

[cneg34]

If you are using Duravent DVL or Durablack, you will be fine as long as you got the right parts.

If the DVL, you will need both
The single wall adapter model number is

6DBK-AD​

and the double wall adapter model number is
6DVL-AD

If you are just using durablack single wall stove pipe, all you will need is 6DBK-AD.
If you are using some other manufacturer, Im not sure what options you have available to you, however likely something similar in the corresponding lineup (single wall adapter gently pounded into the stove collar, then a double wall adapter that sits on top of that)

The end result should look like what I pictured above as the two are connected together onto the stove.

And I assume if using Selkirk DSP pipe it's the same 2 adapter process? I.E. double wall pipes all need the 2 adapters?
My dealer who sold me the Dauntless also sold me a "flush stove adapter" but I don't have the p/n handy. Stove is VC Dauntless Flexburn

 

[GrumpyDad]

And I assume if using Selkirk DSP pipe it's the same 2 adapter process? I.E. double wall pipes all need the 2 adapters?
My dealer who sold me the Dauntless also sold me a "flush stove adapter" but I don't have the p/n handy. Stove is VC Dauntless Flexburn

Sorry I'm not sure how that pipe works out. The issue with the dauntless is that the stove flue collar is made for a product to fit on the inside, not the outside as it gets wider as it goes deeper into the stove. So you will need probably a single wall stove adapter then a double wall stove adapter on top of that, then you mount the rest of your pipe from there.