What happens when you throw a lump of coal on your wood stove?

[webbie]

T=45 minutes, things are starting to perk right along now. The coals are really burning like...well, coal! The glass has not etched into a frosted masterpiece, the stove has not melted and everything appears normal. The fire does have somewhat a radioactive glow in the photo, but I think that is due to the CCD in the camera actually picking up some of the near infra-red light and converting it to visible. Bizarre!

Next thing you know, you guys will be setting fire to barns and documenting the process here in real time! Now that should keep you warm for a few hours....

One time in WV our tool shed caught on fire - the house was about 30 feet away and was starting to heat up and combust - only a bucket brigade and wet blankets saved it! Muddy road so the fire trucks could not make it - the fire guys just walked up and looked.

Some good "pops" when the propane tanks and stuff like that in the shed went.

 

[webbie]

One concern about burning coal for home heat is the amount of mercury in it. Mercury is a neurotoxin, and may (emphasis on MAY) trigger autism

a study in Texas found a 1:1 correlation between atmospheric mercury levels and autism rates in the local schools, and another study found that the number of new cases of autism in Californai has dropped for the first time when a mercury preservative was was withdrawn from use in infant vaccines (it took them 6 years to notice, because CA only officially diagnoses Autism when the kids enter elementary school)

If I'm not wrong, the mercury in coal would be more of a danger from power plants that burn rail cars full of the stuff every hour. I do not think the amount that would come from a residential coal burner - and then into the air, would be of much consequence...strangely enough, the clean coal (anthracite) has more mercury than the dirty stuff....

No doubt that mercury is bad stuff, though.....when I was a kid they probably didn't know it and we could buy it at the local hobby shop and fiddle with it along with our other 100 chemicals (I doubt kids today are allowed to have REAL chemistry sets like we did) - Heck, my bro and I made Chlorine gas when we were 11 years old!

In fact, that's another story - and when I learned about pressure relief! Suffice it to say that my Mr. Fritzs 6th grade science class needed to be evacuated and I coughed for the rest of the day.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i woundnt burn much coal, if any. You simply cant buy it here regularly. The coal i found that i wanted to experement with was left over from a christmas shop, they have a 70 pound bag of it with a few pieces missing. The only reason that i want to use it is because i want to be able to talk more intellengly about it to my customers. I think i have found plenty of data here that i can forgo the experement. They would probably lock me up if i got caught anyway. I have found this thread very intresting, and i thank all that responded.

 

[keyman512us]

Hey MSG..hey all.
...Just FYI the Powder River region of Wyoming has the largest bituminous deposits in North America...and almost in the world. Last time I checked (being a railfan) 60-70 train loads (of up to 115 railcars) per week haul coal from there. It baffles me that y'all don't burn coal out west.
.....But seeing as I lived in Colorado (along the front range) for almost four years I know all to well why it won't happen in that state...to many Californians. I still visit friends in Colorado from time to time but I could never live there again...gave me nightmares about what it would be like to live in California. (lol).
...And yes I am bashing California quite heavily...I have a right to because I am from Massachusetts...(lol)

On a serious note though...If you want to experiment with burning coal, get your hands on some Anthracite (quality black diamonds from PA). I've been burning wood since I was "knee high to a grass hopper"... but I just started burning Anthracite a month and a half ago in my combo unit and man am I impressed! Long term is to burn both, wood when I have time to screw around with it...coal for when I need long burn times.

After burning Anthracite coal I know why the Northeast switched to oil burners...people just got plain lazy.

Look deeply into Anthracite, talk to people that burn it, and you will be amazed and educated.

 

[restorer]

Out west, there is very little coal avalible for burning, and its actually illeagle in my state. Im courious, why are coal stoves so specific? If i could buy coal why cant i put a pice on my wood fire? If the answer is yes, that you can throw coal on your wood fire, does stove type make a difference? Type meaning steel, cast iron, or soapstone?

MSG, don't want to argue, but there are massive reserves of coal in the West. Wyoming, Utah and New Mexico produce something like 90% of their electrical power from coal. Large amounts in Utah and New Mexico are exported to California. See data on the Intermountain power project and the 4 corners power project. There is supposed to be the largest coal reserve in the world under the Kaparowits (Sp) Plateau in Southern Utah. I have no knowledge about coal in Colorado, but do know the issues revolve around the problems with industrial use of coal in Pueblo and Colorado Springs.Seems ironic that you take the power from the Jim Bridger Plant in Wyoming. I was not aware that you could not use coal in Colorado. Seems ridiculous not to use an available resource, even if you required strict emission standards.

 

[begreen]

If most of Denver/Boulder burned coal, residentially as well as commercially, I suspect there would be lawsuits from there to DC by the downwind states. Also, due to the high-altitude and potential temperature inversions, I would think that the smoke would linger quite a while at times. That could have deadly potential.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i was ignorant about coal at the time of this thread. Hearth.com has educated me pretty well.

 

[slowzuki]

Next thing you know, you guys will be setting fire to barns and documenting the process here in real time! Now that should keep you warm for a few hours....

well now that you mention it I have some sequences of that, elapsed time, 20 minutes.

Hmm the preview is black but when you click it it shows the building. This was a friends barn we burned down, used to be a stable. It was packed to the roof with junk wood from his property, hay bales, various combustible fluids etc etc.

 

[slowzuki]

and the last three, again, total time, 20 min

 

[DoubleClutch]

Coal is a limited resource and wood is not, if managed properly.

Yep, if we continue burning coal at the current rate, it'll only last us about 250 more years! ;-)

 

[Andre B.]

How about comparing the heavy metal emissions of coal verses wood.
arsenic, manganese, mercury, uranium, thorium, chromium, cadmium, boron, selenium, and nickel, etc.

 

[Corey]

[speculation]
I would really wonder if they aren't very close on a btu-to-btu basis. These elements weren't put in the coal or wood by aliens. Most likely what ever was growing at the time absorbed the elements from the atmosphere and soil in which it was growing. So was the earth more naturally polluted by heavy metals eons ago when the coal formed? Most likely not. These trace metals are more likely just a fact of life and are continually circulating in the biosphere.
[/speculation]

If anybody has some comparisons from some reputable sources it would certainly be neat to compare.

Corey

 

[tradergordo]

Would be an interesting expariment to see how sticking a lump of burning coal in the throat of an everburn stove would affect secondary combustion - this might actually make the stove a lot more efficient? Just a guess. I don't personally like the idea of burning coal based on the pollution, not to mention contamination of your ashes (which would then have to be landfilled), but where I live (Pennsylvania is like the coal capitol of the world I think) I can actually get coal literally for free (I've seen more than one craigslist post from people with tons of it in their basements wanting someone to haul it away).

 

[berlin]

"I would really wonder if they aren’t very close on a btu-to-btu basis"

yup, they are, at least in the USA, because our coals haven't undergone mineralization like that of many somewhat poisonous chinese coals have. additionally the carcinogenic pah's from burning soft (bituminous) coals in well designed bituimnous stove are generally less than average epa cert. woodstove. don't even waste your time worrying about mercury in coal used for home heating, you don't burn enough, and per btu, eastern hardwood is only slightly less.

btw, to burn soft coal decently you need a stove designed for it, and yes it will still smoke, and yes it will smell much different than what you're used to. it also has a tendancy in a bulk loading stove to flair the volitiles rather suddenly and violently, so have good gaskets, keep the doors closed and seal and screw the smokepipe together otherwise you soot all over your home when this happens.

btw, it is not illegal to heat with coal, soft or otherwise anywhere in colorado outside of boulder, and possibly other urban areas in those states. so few people heat with it, and so few people would, even with the low price, laws like that are a waste of time.


"not to mention contamination of your ashes (which would then have to be landfilled), "

this is not true very little ash from US coal is considered haz-mat or anything close. most of it is used as roadway anti-skid as well as fill, road bedding, concrete and brick mfg., asphalt pavement etc. you may not know it, but coal ash is all around you, in things u use and drive on everyday.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

the denver metro area (7 front range counties) is banned from burning coal. western slope, north east, and south colorado can burn coal if you can find it.

 

[DavidJinPa]

Always learning reading the posts. Seens this, and it got me wondering. "The high content of volatiles (with wood) means that the combustion air should generally be introduced above the fuel bed (secondary air), where the gases are burnt, and not under the fuel bed (primary air)"... I've been struggling with consistent burns in my stove which is a wood/coal. Should I cut off the air from underneath, and just be using the door vents? Hmmm.

 

[DriftWood]

Out west, there is very little coal avalible for burning,

Wyoming ships it every where else, for coal fired electric plants. Just go down to the RR tracks just east of the Rockies one of those long Wyoming coal trains has probably lost a few pieces. I can find coal on the beach here at Lake Huron. Its form shipwrecks and glacier till.

 

[nwaelder]

Great experiment and thread!
For those interested, there is a forum devoted to burining coal.
http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/index.php

Regards

 

[elkimmeg]

during and after the energy crunch of the mid 70's many a person installed wood /coal stoves One that was really popular was the Chubby they wer ornate looking cylinder stoves

I tell ya they threw some heat. As energy prices went down the demand for coal left. it is real hard to find anyone that delivers bulk. I still see many of these stoves hooked up but have not been run in years I can remember in the late 50's helping my grandfather shovel coal in the furnace. one main floor grate no heat up stairs and a Kero cooking stove in the kitchen that also was the second source of heat.

 

[tradergordo]

"not to mention contamination of your ashes (which would then have to be landfilled), "

this is not true very little ash from US coal is considered haz-mat or anything close. most of it is used as roadway anti-skid as well as fill, road bedding, concrete and brick mfg., asphalt pavement etc. you may not know it, but coal ash is all around you, in things u use and drive on everyday.

It may be fine for roads, but according to what I've read, nothing will grow where coal ash has been dumped. See this thread for example. Salt is dumped on roads too, but I certainly wouldn't want it anywhere on my property or in my woods.

 

[Corie]

Hey traderg,

If you'd like to do a coal experiment on the old everburn, I'd be more than happy to supply you with a few lumps

 

[berlin]

"It may be fine for roads, but according to what I’ve read, nothing will grow where coal ash has been dumped"

that's not true at all for most us coal ash. i have grass growing over many deep areas of coal ash in my yard; you wouldn't even know it. the minerals in coal ash are only slightly more concentrated than the soils in general.

btw, i'm not sure what happened to the rest of that thread, because i'm pretty sure i posted some replys to gibbonboy's nonsense.

 

[DavidJinPa]

Heres what I found out last night/this morning. It makes a lot of heat in my stove. Think I added more that a lump though, Oppps.. lol

 

[restorer]

"It may be fine for roads, but according to what I’ve read, nothing will grow where coal ash has been dumped"

that's not true at all for most us coal ash. i have grass growing over many deep areas of coal ash in my yard; you wouldn't even know it. the minerals in coal ash are only slightly more concentrated than the soils in general.

btw, i'm not sure what happened to the rest of that thread, because i'm pretty sure i posted some replys to gibbonboy's nonsense.

Berlin,
I'm with you. My Grandfather would always mix coal ash and wood ash with his compost pit. All green cuttings from the yard would start at one end processed through the middle and taken to the garden from the other end. He, also used sand, bone meal, blood meal, and pot ash. I am sure he did some tests, but he adjusted the PH with the additives. He had the greatest gardens I have ever seen.