Wood racks - framing

Ashful Posted By Ashful, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:22 AM

  1. Ashful

    Ashful
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    I'm finally building my version of a wood shed, namely several long rows of covered racks, for up to 30 cords of CSSd wood. Overall concept is as follows:

    woodrack 2018 reva empty.jpg woodrack 2018 reva loaded end.jpg
    woodrack 2018 reva loaded.jpg woodrack 2018 reva arrangement.jpg

    A couple key design points:

    1. 4x4 posts are placed at mid-length on the splits being stacked, to work nicely as crib ends.
    2. Generous overhangs, 4' wide roof for 3' wide stacks (2 rows x 18" split length).
    3. Base is 2x4 stringers supported every 2 feet. This was chosen as a compromise between overall height and strength.
    4. The 2x4's that run front to back under main stringers provide support and air flow under main stringers, and are seen as disposable. They will rot, and the intention is to replace them every 3 or 6 years, assuming each rack holds a load for 3 years.
    5. Open design for max air flow. Roofing TBD, but likely asphalt shingles.
    6. Latice on ends to prevent wracking.
    7. Entire base is replaceable, if it rots. Uprights will be tied to base using TimberLoks or carriage bolts, so entire upright structure can be swapped onto another base, down the road.

    Primary concerns:

    1. The only thing keeping the structure from blowing apart at the book ends is whatever fasteners penetrate up thru the 2x4 flat on the ground at each end. If these 2x4's on the flat rot, as I expect they will, strength is compromised.
    2. Might increase 2x4's on flat to 2x6's, at either end, just to allow room for more fastening.
    3. There is provisions (lattice) for wracking front to back, but none for side to side. Might need to add lattice or cross bracing down the center, between the front row and back row of splits.

    Any thoughts? Concerns? Suggestions?
     
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  2. Ashful

    Ashful
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    Oh, and I forgot to add... the reason I’m using rows of racks instead of a shed is three-fold:

    1. Township fighting me on the shed, due to setback restrictions.

    2. Cost, the shed I had planned was a pretty substantial project.

    3. Accessibility, given how I move and store my wood with a farm wagon that is loaded from these racks, and then parked on a patio at the house.

    247aaf09f8f7c227c4fe73cdd227e3aa.jpg
     
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  3. rowerwet

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  4. Ashful

    Ashful
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    Yeah, pallet racks are a great way to get started, quick and cheap. I have about 30 cords worth of racks like that. But here I’m looking for something more cosmetically acceptable. Cost is not a big issue, but my available daylight time is. The racks I’m proposing would be built in an evening or two in my shop, and then carted down to the wood storage area with the front-end loader.
     
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  5. semipro

    semipro
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    Per this discussion in your related post I"m wondering if you shouldn't consider building something that would be compatible with a palletized/caged firewood storage/hauling system for the future?
    The ROPs can be replaced or modded for folding and I'm sure you or someone else could find a use for that sweet wagon.
     
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  6. Monsieur Poele

    Monsieur Poele
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    You should consider adding diagonal pieces of wood so it doesn’t fall laterally. Like making an X at the back of each rack


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  7. begreen

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    An open-sided pole barn makes sense to store this volume of wood with easy drive through.
     
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  8. Ashful

    Ashful
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    That is the competing idea, with which I’ve been struggling for a long time. I had planned a 24 x 36, with room to fit my big tandem axle (wood hauling) trailer under one end. Unfortunately, if I leave a drive-thru path, then even that barn would only hold 15 cords when stacked 6 feet high. That’s about half of my target.

    Then there’s the whole problem with the township. They really don’t want me building it that close to property lines, and since I’m on the edge of wetlands (likely actually infringing), I don’t even want to get into a standoff with them.

    The other issue is the cost difference. I’d anticipate the pavillion to be $15k+, but these racks will be closer to $200 each. That’s an outlay of under $2k per year for 3 years, the way the build is planned, for 2x the storage of the pavilion.
     
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  9. begreen

    begreen
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    Is this the only location possible? I was thinking something more in keeping with the estate. If you sell it someone could used it for horses. Maybe a closed but leaky barn with a conveyor system would work?
     
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  10. Ashful

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    Anything is possible, I guess... but we are more limited on space than it might sound. Just 4 acres, and half of that is front or side lawn that faces the road (curb appeal), where I’d not want to put any structure. That leaves the back and side, the planned location for all of this being that particular corner. I’ll try to get an annotated aerial shot up, for consideration.

    This was my pavilion concept, which I figured would be good for only 14 or 15 cords, but did have the advantage of getting my trailer under cover:

    View attachment 232258

    Note that 24 feet free span makes for some might big trusses, and a not-so-unobtrusive roof height, at any pitch that’s going to jive with everything surrounding it.
     
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  11. Ashful

    Ashful
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    The reality is that have ten cords of logs rotting on the ground from last year, that I need to get split and stacked in the next few weeks, and then likely another 6 cords hitting the ground over Christmas. I got a bit behind, while debating options and tackling other projects, now it’s time to catch up... fast. These racks are my best bet for the near term, as I see it. Just need some advice on the framing details laid out in post 1.
     
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  12. ED 3000

    ED 3000
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    Why not just have a single pitch roof with enough overhang in the front to keep the space directly in front from getting sloppy?
     
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  13. kennyp2339

    kennyp2339
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    FB9B0FBB-8F27-451E-9FA0-94F5E1CCB0B9.jpeg I like the plan, my only question is the vertical post's in-between each module would have to be doubled up (waste material) to make a continuous roof line. you may want to consider using a 4x4 post and notching out the top for the 2x4's to lay in then lag to the 4x4
     
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  14. ED 3000

    ED 3000
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    I have a long-time, close friend who is an intelligent civil engineer. I always ask his opinion on stuff like this. He always tries to change my mind on what I'm planning to do, rather than give me his opinion about what I'm asking about. His alternatives are always grandiose. We get a kick out of our conversations.
     
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  15. The.Devo

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    IMHO, you should build a larger building to hold this years wood and then the smaller racks to season future wood. You will use up less real estate and less building materials overall. Doing this will require you to move the wood twice, but your family will always know which stack to pull from.
     
  16. Ashful

    Ashful
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    I understand, it’s not that different when someone comes here looking for a slight upgrade on their 35cc Poulan or Echo, and I try convincing them they need an MS661 C-M. Spending other people’s time is almost as fun as spending their money; there is some of that going on here, and it’s all good. Sometimes new ideas come from it.

    I agree that this can be a great way to go, for those moving a more typical 3 cords per year. But the unfortunate combination of my very limited free time during daylight hours, and the sheer amount of wood I’m moving (I’ve done 14 cords in a single year), make me really not want to move every cord I’m processing another time.
     
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  17. sportbikerider78

    sportbikerider78
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    Since you have a tractor, to me it makes all the sense in the world to prevent manually moving anything from the rack to the wagon. I would want to put forks on the front of the tractor, pick up a container and drop it right on the back porch, like you do with the wagon. Make a semi permanent shelter that covers the wood containers and you are good to go.
    For your kind of volume, stacking and restacking (or dumping) is a major hassle.

    What about simple 2x4 wood bins with some plywood on the sides and 4x4's on the bottom that allow the tractor to get forks underneath it?
     
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  18. Ashful

    Ashful
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    I suspect that’s one of those things that sounds a lot easier than it really is, given my constraints. I’ve thought about this, and there are several obstacles, some of which likely preclude the idea. Here they are, in no particular order:

    1. I have forks for the 3-point, but it’s rated only 785 lb. at 24” off the ends of the lower links, the approximate COG of a pallet.

    2. I have a front end loader on it, which is *supposedly* rated 1300 lb., but I suspect it actually breaks out lower than that. Still, a little light for lifting any more than 1/4 cord on a pallet.

    3. At that weight limit, the pallets will have to be short. Also stability requirements for moving across my somewhat hilly lawn are also going to keep the pallets short. That means a LOT more roof to keep them covered.

    4. I suppose the pallets could be double-stacked, but now they have to be built to take that weight, or I’d need to build a pallet mezzanine/rack.

    5. Moving the firewood from the rack to the wagon is my chance to get rid of mice nests, and all sorts of other nasties that I don’t want to bring up to the house.

    6. I need this wagon for other stuff, and if I’m putting pallets where it normally sits, now I need to find another place to store it!
     
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  19. Poindexter

    Poindexter
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    My only concern is what happens when the wind blows with some snow load accumulated?

    You are in an unenviable position, 14 cords in a shorter burn season than mine.

    You have reasonable rationales for all your expressed choices, but you are moving a lot more wood, faster, than I would want to sign up for.
     
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  20. Ashful

    Ashful
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    Just to be clear, 14 cords is my record, not my average. A few years, due to weather or stove problems, I've probably even come in shy of 6 cords. I plan for 10 cords per year, keeping 20 - 30 cords CSS'd at all times, and probably average less than that.

    On roof load, I beefed the 2x4 headers up to 2x6's, for better strength. I also added a ridge beam, as part of the diagonal bracing @Monsieur Poele had suggested, the "x" will run between ridge beam and a fifth stringer running down the center of the rack. This should make the roof fairly stout.

    We will get some big snows, up to 3 feet in a single event, very occasionally. But it's not generally going to stay on a roof for that long, especially if it's blowing when it's coming down. I don't anticipate any problem, but perhaps I'm naive or too optimistic?

    I've been debating the single pitch roof, but my gut tells me what I have should look better, when it's done. It's debatable, tho.
     
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  21. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu
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    I'll just run this one up the flag pole, see if it flies…its something I've thought about doing myself.
    What about putting 4x4's, or 6x6's (4x6's?) in the ground, say every 8' or so in a line as long as you want your "shed" and stacks to be.
    Put 2x6's across the top to act as a ridge beam, then build short rafters of sorts to form an overhang shed roof on both sides. Stack the wood on pallets or what ever you want.
    Here's a QUICK "Paint" sketch, (no laughing ;em) this would be an end view.
    woodshed.png
     
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  22. Ashful

    Ashful
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    Hah... that was my original plan! I didn’t he’d it when I thought about the actual effort of augering 35 holes deep and wide enough for the 6x6 posts I had planned. I think 4x4’s would snap like toothpicks, if inadvertently bumped with my tractor. The mobile racks will just move.
     
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  23. Poindexter

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    I have no idea what snow load you should build for in your area, and I was kinda figuring not all the pieces of roof framing were shown in the first images.

    FWIW mine are individual units on cinderblocks. Not permanent. Not taxable structures, locally.

    Also, on mine I put two verticals at the end of each stack of wood. On one of the early prototypes I had one vertical at each end of each stack of wood, four verticals total on a foot print like yours. It is one of the early three with a profane nick name. Having two verticals at the end of each stack makes the units much easier to load, because the pieces at the end of each row can't rotate around the uprights, but the splits at the end of each row can will and do rotate around single uprights. I don't know how much it costs you to work for free, but doubling up the vertical 2x4s covered the material cost for me in time savings the first time I loaded each newly built module.

    Good luck.
     
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  24. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu
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    Meh, a post hole auger on your tractors 3 PH would drill all those holes in an afternoon or less....BTDT, miles of fence making under my belt
     
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  25. Ashful

    Ashful
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    Been looking at that space as I do some work on the back of the house this afternoon, and thinking how much nicer a pavilion would look down there. Anyone care to estimate the cost of a 24 x 36 pavilion? Assume it has to look nice, no aluminum gables garbage.
     
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