How much experience do you have heating with a wood stove? Processing firewood etc?
Woodstove for interior Alaska cabin
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I watch these two and they use coal and wood to heat their garage along with in floor radiant that uses heating oil. They heat their small log cabin with a Blaze King Princess.
Yes, they have a very large garage and certain things on their property that I won't have. Do you know how many square feet their cabin is?
I think what you should do, is first have the cabin and its insulation designed.
Then hire someone to do a manual J calculation for the design.
Then design the heating systems.
It's no big deal to change the design of penetrations for piping from wood to coal or oil the other way around. Swapping the design for these is peanuts. Just some different parts and a differently sized hole.
So that can be done last when you know what you are going to need.
And only then does it start to make sense to think about reloading times ("burn times") as a factor in deciding what model of whatever you choose to get - IF you even have the luxury that there are choices to be made in the limited set of heating appliances that fit the BTU need bill.
Then hire someone to do a manual J calculation for the design.
Then design the heating systems.
It's no big deal to change the design of penetrations for piping from wood to coal or oil the other way around. Swapping the design for these is peanuts. Just some different parts and a differently sized hole.
So that can be done last when you know what you are going to need.
And only then does it start to make sense to think about reloading times ("burn times") as a factor in deciding what model of whatever you choose to get - IF you even have the luxury that there are choices to be made in the limited set of heating appliances that fit the BTU need bill.
Thank you.
I know it's a hypothetical question but, should a duel fuel cabin be something to look into, having two separate heat sources built into one cabin, a coal stove and wood stove in case supply chain issues or price increases ? I think the ability for a cabin to be heated with both wood and coal and switch back and forth gives the homeowner more flexibility and creates a more versatile home.
I think versatility in heating systems is good. But making that versatility more dependent on supply chains, when those are long and expensive, is not ideal.
I do like coal, if you can get it, because storage is ideal, and its energy density is high. It doesn't go bad and doesn't get affected much by ambient moisture. But if you can't get this locally, easily, I'd build a *large* storage where you can store at least 2 years of coal. That way, you're not in a bind when one year coal delivery doesn't work out for whatever reason and you can double down on wood to get through the next winter.
Oil (diesel) is great too, energy density. If you can store it inside. With a double wall and large tank that doesn't get too cold - but only if you can maintain the burner yourself. If midwinter your flue gets damaged by snow sliding down, and you need to rely on oil, but a part conks out, you need to be able to replace stuff yourself.
You'll need a decent stock room with spare parts for important systems at your place. That includes for your heating appliances.
I would hope you make the time to cut and split your wood. Living there and ordering stuff to have it delivered seems antithetical to ... living there. Sure, it's work. But you can enroll family members, make it family time.
Working together to provide for yourself are great times, especially when it's physical work outside.
I would seal and insulate the hell out of that cabin, get two wood stoves, one cat and one tube, and have total control over your heating needs by sourcing your own wood. You'll know exactly how much you have before the winter, and all issues of fuel supply chain and cost are gone.
Off grid Alaska is not a place to live planning to rely on ordering things imo.
I do like coal, if you can get it, because storage is ideal, and its energy density is high. It doesn't go bad and doesn't get affected much by ambient moisture. But if you can't get this locally, easily, I'd build a *large* storage where you can store at least 2 years of coal. That way, you're not in a bind when one year coal delivery doesn't work out for whatever reason and you can double down on wood to get through the next winter.
Oil (diesel) is great too, energy density. If you can store it inside. With a double wall and large tank that doesn't get too cold - but only if you can maintain the burner yourself. If midwinter your flue gets damaged by snow sliding down, and you need to rely on oil, but a part conks out, you need to be able to replace stuff yourself.
You'll need a decent stock room with spare parts for important systems at your place. That includes for your heating appliances.
I would hope you make the time to cut and split your wood. Living there and ordering stuff to have it delivered seems antithetical to ... living there. Sure, it's work. But you can enroll family members, make it family time.
Working together to provide for yourself are great times, especially when it's physical work outside.
I would seal and insulate the hell out of that cabin, get two wood stoves, one cat and one tube, and have total control over your heating needs by sourcing your own wood. You'll know exactly how much you have before the winter, and all issues of fuel supply chain and cost are gone.
Off grid Alaska is not a place to live planning to rely on ordering things imo.
Thank you, good info.
I just talked to Hitzer rep on the phone. They have four different stoves available that are compatible with both bituminous coal and wood logs that can be burned in the same stove...
Hitzer 354 HZ-354-CFG
Hitzer 254 HZ-254-CGF
Hitzer 82 UL HZ-82UL-CFG
Hitzer 55 UL HZ-55F-CFG
The two I'm interested in are the Hitzer 354 HZ-354-CFG and Hitzer 82 UL HZ-82UL-CFG. Those are their two biggest stoves. Their two smaller ones that are available are also sold in Alaska and the rep said people there have no problem heating their homes with them either up there.
The rep said you should be able to get 20+ hour burn times with coal. He said he has a farm house that's over 2,400 square feet in Indiana that his coal stove can burn 20+ hours with no problem and keep it warm consistently. The coal stoves will burn longer than wood logs, more sustained heat output.
The Hitzer 50-93 is for anthracite coal only. It will not work with bituminous coal.
The Hitzer's do pretty good with wood logs but, I don't believe they will have as long a burn times as the Blaze King King 40 with logs.
A stove made to burn two different fuel supplies is not burning either fuel as good as a stove built for one fuel supply. If you want to burn wood and coal I would go with two separate stoves to do it.
Why are you focusing on the burn times?
Burn time is "# of BTUS into the stove" divided by the BTU release rate per hour.
If you only need the # of BTU per hour of these stoves *at the lowest setting*, you can get the 20+ hrs in the HItzer and the 40 hrs in the BK.
But it's unlikely that you can keep warm with 10,000 BTUs per hour - and that's what a BK delivers when you have it set to a 40 hr burn. That equates to about two 1.5 kW plug in electric heaters...!
So burn times are not something you should be thinking about, as they directly (inversely) correlate to BTU output - and you don't know yet what would be a sufficient BTU output rate.
Burn time is "# of BTUS into the stove" divided by the BTU release rate per hour.
If you only need the # of BTU per hour of these stoves *at the lowest setting*, you can get the 20+ hrs in the HItzer and the 40 hrs in the BK.
But it's unlikely that you can keep warm with 10,000 BTUs per hour - and that's what a BK delivers when you have it set to a 40 hr burn. That equates to about two 1.5 kW plug in electric heaters...!
So burn times are not something you should be thinking about, as they directly (inversely) correlate to BTU output - and you don't know yet what would be a sufficient BTU output rate.
I predict this project never happens.
Go up to your spot and talk to the neighbors if you are really serious and not just dreaming. That will be the best way to get the info you are seeking, and also find out more things to know about building and living there, and more about what you don't know to ask about living there.
Go up to your spot and talk to the neighbors if you are really serious and not just dreaming. That will be the best way to get the info you are seeking, and also find out more things to know about building and living there, and more about what you don't know to ask about living there.
You need to stop focusing so much on long burn times. For example my blaze king princess can easily burn 24 hours on a load of wood but I only do that a few times a year because burning that long it isn't putting out enough btus to heat my house unless it is in the 50s. And that is a 2200 sq ft ranch in the central pa mountains.
It’s pretty tiny with no loft just guessing about 600 sq ft. I know they hit -60 a few times and their stove has no problem keeping up.
I wouldn’t poo poo the log cabin idea yet. There are plenty of them doing just fine in Alaska. Once all those logs soak in the heat they stay warm for long time. I would just make sure they are larger diameter D type logs for better R value and they have a good seal between.
So, top priority first is for the designers/builders to focus on insulation, insulate it as much as possible
Here are some ideas below...
Insulate aggressively: Aim for R-40 walls, R-60 attic, triple-pane windows, argon-filled units with low U-values (<0.20). Consider interior storm windows during winter.
Seal all air leaks with spray foam, gaskets, and weatherstripping. Aim for ≤ 1.0 ACH50 (air changes per hour at 50 pascals) on a blower door test.
Now, is that possible with a log cabin ?
Here are some ideas below...
Insulate aggressively: Aim for R-40 walls, R-60 attic, triple-pane windows, argon-filled units with low U-values (<0.20). Consider interior storm windows during winter.
Seal all air leaks with spray foam, gaskets, and weatherstripping. Aim for ≤ 1.0 ACH50 (air changes per hour at 50 pascals) on a blower door test.
Now, is that possible with a log cabin ?
The R value of wood is around 1.25 per inch.
An 8" log will then an R value of 10. That's less than a 2x4 stud wall with 1970s glass fiber insulation...
Moreover, the R10 is across the largest width. The R value of a wall is mostly determined by the heat leaks (just like the R value of a window is determined by the least insulating components). It's like adding the inverse of the thermal conductivity of the different components (scaled by their surface area, I surmise).
So 8" logs would have an R value quite less than 10 because parts will be thinner than 8".
Now, if you put 8" logs and then add R38 rockwool on one or the other side, you'll be good (if you keep the logs sealed).
If you want the log view on the outside, the rockwool would be inside. But then you loose the thermal mass of the logs to even out temperatures in your home. Putting insulation on the outside is better imo.
So, then I'd go with ICF, or proper (offset 2x4s in a 2x6) stud wall with logs slices on the outside as siding. That's what @begreen proposed above.
You have the looks of a log cabin but a much better insulation value.
Also consider the air leakage rating of the windows.
An 8" log will then an R value of 10. That's less than a 2x4 stud wall with 1970s glass fiber insulation...
Moreover, the R10 is across the largest width. The R value of a wall is mostly determined by the heat leaks (just like the R value of a window is determined by the least insulating components). It's like adding the inverse of the thermal conductivity of the different components (scaled by their surface area, I surmise).
So 8" logs would have an R value quite less than 10 because parts will be thinner than 8".
Now, if you put 8" logs and then add R38 rockwool on one or the other side, you'll be good (if you keep the logs sealed).
If you want the log view on the outside, the rockwool would be inside. But then you loose the thermal mass of the logs to even out temperatures in your home. Putting insulation on the outside is better imo.
So, then I'd go with ICF, or proper (offset 2x4s in a 2x6) stud wall with logs slices on the outside as siding. That's what @begreen proposed above.
You have the looks of a log cabin but a much better insulation value.
Also consider the air leakage rating of the windows.
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