2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 3 (Everything BK)

[kennyp2339]

No long illegal in the black pipe department, I haven't ran the stove in 2 days so with todays impending cold front and low night time temps in the upper teens; I decided to clean the chimney, chuck the single wall out, install the c-cc adapters and double wall pipe.
I did not install the collar adapter with damper since it was damaged during shipping and a new one was going to take 4 weeks to come in due to factory inventory problems so I used another c-cc adapter, crimped the one end to fit inside the stoves flue collar and connected the other end to the double wall pipe. Everything worked out well, nice and tight, no smoke issues.

 

[Highbeam]

No long illegal in the black pipe department, I haven't ran the stove in 2 days so with todays impending cold front and low night time temps in the upper teens; I decided to clean the chimney, chuck the single wall out, install the c-cc adapters and double wall pipe.
I did not install the collar adapter with damper since it was damaged during shipping and a new one was going to take 4 weeks to come in due to factory inventory problems so I used another c-cc adapter, crimped the one end to fit inside the stoves flue collar and connected the other end to the double wall pipe. Everything worked out well, nice and tight, no smoke issues.

Double wall is much gooder. I’m here trying to heat my shop from 49 to 75 with the nc30 that has 10’ of single wall above it. 480 skin temp at 18” above the stove and 280 skin temp at the ceiling. So the room is stealing 400 degrees from the internal flue gas temperature. With double wall more heat stays inside the nice stainless pipe where it can strengthen draft.

 

[Woody Stover]

You'll also need a precisely temperature and humidity-calibrated living room and three pinches of magical fairy dust.

I know where he can get the dust..

Even if that customer shows up with a 53 foot trailer?

Just show up at night, ram the trailer through the wall, and load up. You'll be getting the stove at a fairer price.

one of my favorite new trends:

View attachment 223101

Damn, dude, now you're buying bombs from terrorist street vendors?

 

[Diabel]

Do not run any part of the FA kit above the bottom of the firebox of the stove.

Atmosperically, it is possible for draft to reverse.

Run it along the floor to the outside and cover the line with a nice box. When it exits, make certain to keep snow, leaves or other debris from blocking the air source. Have your BK dealer order the 4" diameter kit to help with long runs.

That is basically what Webby said.
Thank you, confirmed. My application can allow it. Why would this be then recommended for actual basement applications?

 

[kennyp2339]

Double wall is much gooder. I’m here trying to heat my shop from 49 to 75 with the nc30 that has 10’ of single wall above it. 480 skin temp at 18” above the stove and 280 skin temp at the ceiling. So the room is stealing 400 degrees from the internal flue gas temperature. With double wall more heat stays inside the nice stainless pipe where it can strengthen draft.

I'm going to play around today and take a 3ft section of class @ off my chimney stack because of the increased draft in my already strong drafting setup, I just need to double check the 3-2-10 rule. Incase anyone is wondering the chimney must penetrate the roof a minimum of 3ft on the shortest side of the chimney and the chimney must be at least 2ft higher than any portion of the roof in a 10ft radius.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'm going to play around today and take a 3ft section of class @ off my chimney stack because of the increased draft in my already strong drafting setup, I just need to double check the 3-2-10 rule. Incase anyone is wondering the chimney must penetrate the roof a minimum of 3ft on the shortest side of the chimney and the chimney must be at least 2ft higher than any portion of the roof in a 10ft radius.

Success, I know replying to your own post is kind of like dating a second cousin, but I has more than enough length, actually 4ft of chimney after I took off the 3ft section also easily past the 2 ft higher than anything in a 10ft radius. I noticed really nothing any different, just heat vapors, hopefully I will have a slower burn when temps drop below 20.

 

[BKVP]

That is basically what Webby said.
Thank you, confirmed. My application can allow it. Why would this be then recommended for actual basement applications?

Not everyone will want an FA kit.

 

[allan5oh]

Not everyone will want an FA kit.

Other than not being possible or the threat of reversal are there any other reasons not to install one?

 

[BKVP]

Other than not being possible or the threat of reversal are there any other reasons not to install one?

If it gets blocked with snow or other debris, it could cause performance issues.

 

[allan5oh]

If it gets blocked with snow or other debris, it could cause performance issues.

Install isusues. My point is i havent been convinved that theres any flaw in the concept of running one.

 

[Woody Stover]

Install isusues. My point is i havent been convinved that theres any flaw in the concept of running one.

http://woodheat.org/the-outdoor-air-myth-exposed.html

 

[allan5oh]

What a dumb article. "Studies show" yet provides no references or citations. Completely ignores the humidity issue which favors an OAK. Makes too much of an issue of the reversal problem which is installation related not concept issue.

Heres whats changed since i installed an OAK on my non cat stove:

- less humidity up the flue
- more humidity in the house
- ability to close the door much sooner getting the stove started
- ability to push in the primary air completely extending burn times
- more secondwry burn
- fans dont change the draft characteristic. Wind with an OAK has a far less effect than fans without one. Its not even close!

 

[Highbeam]

What a dumb article. "Studies show" yet provides no references or citations. Completely ignores the humidity issue which favors an OAK. Makes too much of an issue of the reversal problem which is installation related not concept issue.

Heres whats changed since i installed an OAK on my non cat stove:

- less humidity up the flue
- more humidity in the house
- ability to close the door much sooner getting the stove started
- ability to push in the primary air completely extending burn times
- more secondwry burn
- fans dont change the draft characteristic. Wind with an OAK has a far less effect than fans without one. Its not even close!

That article I s full of nonsense. Long ago discredited. It’s like going to a PETA site for bbq meat recipes!

I love my oak.

 

[Poindexter]

re: FA kit or Outside Air Kit is important to look at the whole home, not just the stove and the humidity inside the house.

two specific issues, two reasons to not run an OAK if you don't have to have one:

1. Air turn over. My home is +/- 40 years old. On the current rehab project we (the wife and I) are cutting out interior drywall under all the windows. So far we are finding moldy insulation and some surface mold on the framing and exterior sheathing in about 60% of the stud spaces.

I understand perfectly well there are billions and billions of micro-organisms in every cubic meter of air. Given my home was designed to be heated with oil and lit by electricity, the only two installed air handlers during construction are the vent fans in the bathrooms. Running my stove in my home without an OAK has improved my indoor air quality by forcing more air turnover and lowering the average concentration of bad stuff in the air.

Discussion of indoor air quality on this properly belongs in the DIY section. Individual sensitivity to mold and fungus spores is highly variable, and etcetera. Just pointing out OAK v- no OAK can have a bearing on indoor air quality

2. Condensate. When you suck cold air through a pipe, but the outside of the pipe is in warm air, you risk having the humidity in the warm air condensing on the cold pipe. It's basic physics. I have seen some discussion of using essentially double wall pipe for the OAK tubing as a strategy for reducing or eliminating condensate.

I am confident under mild conditions condensate might be eliminated, just as I am confident under extreme conditions condensate on OAK tubing can't be helped.

If you have to have and OAK, how are you going to deal with condensate? If you have to have an OAK, can you install it in a way that allows it to be disconnected if you someday desire that flexibility?

 

[allan5oh]

1) A wood stove is a poor way to regulate humidity or indoor air quality. All newer or remodeled homes should have an HRV if this is a concern.

2) we have -30c actual temps here and condensation isnt an issue. Installation, not concept.

 

[Diabel]

If I have HRV installed should I still get the OAK?

I think I am more confused than before.....

 

[allan5oh]

Yes do both is what i meant.

 

[Poindexter]

An HRV is much easier to balance if the OAK and chimney are a separate circuit.

 

[kennyp2339]

Just a quick observation since losing 3ft of class a off my stack, I have coals, many, many more coals, I haven't changed wood supply, my moisture is anywhere from 12% - 18% of oak, ash, maple, and locust. I have only done 2 loadings so far so it seems like I'm on the right track of slowing things down without a damper. Also I hade one of those crappy single wall thermometers, I took it an put it equal to the cat probe on the left side of the stove, I have held a consistent temp between 400 - 500 deg stove top, so when I reload the stove I'm still at a 400deg stove top then burn up to 500deg and slowly work my way back down to 400deg in 12 hrs with the cat engaged and blower running on low. I'm very happy so far, t-sat is set at 2:30 o'clock

 

[Woody Stover]

That article I s full of nonsense. Long ago discredited.

Yes, the article is dated but the points he makes about potential problems (based on physics) are just as true today.

Install isusues. My point is i havent been convinved that theres any flaw in the concept of running one.

The "concept" is sound but that doesn't always translate well to real-life situations. Wind-induced chimney downdraft an "install issue?" Or, what happens when the wind blows opposite from the prevailing direction, and your OAK is now on the depressurized side of the house? Not "install issues."

Heres whats changed since i installed an OAK on my non cat stove:
- less humidity up the flue
- more humidity in the house
- ability to close the door much sooner getting the stove started
- ability to push in the primary air completely extending burn times
- more secondwry burn
- fans dont change the draft characteristic. Wind with an OAK has a far less effect than fans without one. Its not even close!

A lot of those points indicate that you have a tight house in which your chimney has low draft without the OAK. I'm pretty sure that tight-house problems like yours don't apply to the vast majority of people that burn wood. I don't think many that read this are saying "Yeah, I have to leave the door open a long time to get my stove burning."
How are you measuring "more humidity in the house?" What is the before and after humidity level? "Less humidity up the flue"...what is that?
Great that the OAK is working in your case, but you talk like any potential problems are from a bad installs, which is flatly untrue. I think that in most cases an OAK is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. You may be preaching to an even lower percentage of tight-house affected people on this particular thread since you are espousing the vast benefits of an OAK...installed on your non-cat stove, which needs a lot more air to breathe properly than a cat stove.

I love my oak.

Why is that?

 

[Highbeam]

Even with 500 degree flue temps, even in mild Washington, we still get creosicles. This is more like yellow snow really.

The pellet bbq is cranked up for some tri-tip too.

 

[Woody Stover]

Meat, ewwww.

 

[tarzan]

Even with 500 degree flue temps, even in mild Washington, we still get creosicles. This is more like yellow snow really.

The pellet bbq is cranked up for some tri-tip too.

Man, are you serious with that "pellet smoker?"

Get yourself a "real" offset stick burner and kick in a cooler of beer cause you ain't gonna get far from it until the foods ready.

A little jealous of the tri tip though. Can't find it in my area.

 

[kennyp2339]

Don't eat the yellow snow HB

 

[begreen]

Is that snow from today. We just got a 5 minute squall. Nothing stuck, but the wind has been blowing steady at 25-30mph.