2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 3 (Everything BK)

[Diabel]

Maybe this dealer has some seriously old inventory!!
Like from 1975-80, BK did make a non-cat King back then...I believe.

 

[BKVP]

ISUCET, is correct.

 

[A.K.304]

PT/KT models are non cat and are made for up North I think, but I don't know if they still making them.

I emailed BK directly this last week and it was BK that said they make both types on the Princess and King. Manitoba allows non-cat stoves still, not all provinces do however. So I can choose the non-cat Princess. Both the cat and non-cat Princess and King have the automatic thermostat control.

 

[A.K.304]

From the sounds of it your house is probably closer to a decently insulated 1500 square foot house. I have a princess in my 1880 SF well insulated house and it does just fine. Very rarely do I need to open a window. And that’s only on days that have high thermal gain as we have a LOT of sun that hits our house.

The only concern I have about your house is you mention that you can’t get the temp up in the whole house. If you are losing so much heat that it can’t get to the other rooms then I think any stove might have a hard time getting that accomplished.

Spray foam is your friend!

Thank you for your reply. I can get heat to the entire house if I leave the doors to the bedroom open. I keep them closed currently, so that the main area gets heated to 66-67 with the current pellet stove and electric heat.

From what I've read, isn't it true though that running the stove on low all the time isn't the most efficient and creates more creosote? Or, can I just put less wood in the stove or softer wood that doesn't burn as hot to be able to run it on medium or high?

 

[kf6hap]

My house is only 1000 sq. feet and I like the temperature during the day to be around 66-67 and 60 overnight (I can close my bedroom door to keep it cooler).

Well, in the winter I shut doors and my house becomes 940 sq ft. The Ashford 30 does great. Creosote in a well designed cat stove is far less than with an "air tube" stove on low and very low burn. The BK burn times are just what you need to keep your house nice and warm while away.

I would have to burn the Princess on low most of the time, which is not good or efficient and creates more creosote from what I've read.

This was true for over a hundred years. NO LONGER! It is just the opposite with a BK stove. At low burn the "residency time" the time smoke spends within the cat is greatly increased so the creosote is more completely burned, more heat is extracted and efficiency becomes very high as the slowly moving gasses give up a major portion of heat to the stove to heat your house.

Note: At low burn rates the combustion within the cat is the major source of heat, not from the fire within the fire box. Unburned smoke is unburned evaporated wood being wasted by going up the stack . It is pollution too.

 

[webby3650]

Well, in the winter I shut doors and my house becomes 940 sq ft. The Ashford 30 does great. Creosote in a well designed cat stove is far less than with an "air tube" stove on low and very low burn. The BK burn times are just what you need to keep your house nice and warm while away.




This was true for over a hundred years. NO LONGER! It is just the opposite with a BK stove. At low burn the "residency time" the time smoke spends within the cat is greatly increased so the creosote is more completely burned, more heat is extracted and efficiency becomes very high as the slowly moving gasses give up a major portion of heat to the stove to heat your house.

Note: At low burn rates the combustion within the cat is the major source of heat, not from the fire within the fire box. Unburned smoke is unburned evaporated wood being wasted by going up the stack . It is pollution too.

I have seen some serious creosote situations with a BK in a home that’s way too small for the stove. Most of us here know how to prevent this, but without the proper burning technique, the cat won’t take care of the problem. If it’s just burned like any old stove, it will build creosote like “any old stove”

 

[Ashful]

I emailed BK directly about this last week, and they are offered as non-cat. My friend that recommended the BK Princess, has a non-cat one. Here is the email response that I received from BK about this:

"Thank you for considering Blaze King.

Only the Princess and King models are offered as a Non-Catalytic. The Non-Catalytic models come with a Thermostat that will regulate the heat output, but the Thermometer is not included (Thermometer tells you when the Catalytic component is Active). All our other models, such as Ashford, Chinook, and Sirocco are Catalytic models. Unfortunately we do not have conversions for the Catalytic Models.

You can check out all the models on our website www.blazeking.com.
Our dealers are great with an question as well, closest Dealer to you would be Anola Building Centre (204) 866-2815. We have a couple dealers in Winnipeg as well if you prefer.


Jessica Logie
Dealer Support

Blaze King Industries Inc
Valley Comfort Systems"

I should have been more clear. BK makes them in non-cat, but only sells them in markets where wood stoves are not regulated. As it has been explained to me, the rest of us can only buy and install their cat models. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this is the case.

Then, please explain to me why on earth anyone would ever want a BK that’s stripped of one of its two its best features.

 

[Highbeam]

If you insist on a noncat bk then I think you should consider and compare with other noncat stoves. There are some really good ones but none of the noncats, including the bk, will have the very long burn times that bk cat stoves have.

Let us convince you to choose a catalytic model bk. For primary home heat where the owner is away for work and likes to sleep the cat stove is vastly superior. Wood consumption is lower, heat output is more controllable.

The fact that a pellet stove on high can't keep up means your heat loss is way over the minimum output of any bk cat stove.

 

[A.K.304]

If you insist on a noncat bk then I think you should consider and compare with other noncat stoves. There are some really good ones but none of the noncats, including the bk, will have the very long burn times that bk cat stoves have.

Let us convince you to choose a catalytic model bk. For primary home heat where the owner is away for work and likes to sleep the cat stove is vastly superior. Wood consumption is lower, heat output is more controllable.

The fact that a pellet stove on high can't keep up means your heat loss is way over the minimum output of any bk cat stove.

I'm not convinced either way, that is why I'm here. I've basically decided I would like to buy a BK ... and if all of you say that a cat is just fine and does not require a ton of maintenance I am willing to go with a cat. Now to narrow down a model that is right for my house ... Princess, Ashford 30 or maybe the Ashford 20?

 

[AlbergSteve]

I'm not convinced either way, that is why I'm here. I've basically decided I would like to buy a BK ... and if all of you say that a cat is just fine and does not require a ton of maintenance I am willing to go with a cat. Now to narrow down a model that is right for my house ... Princess, Ashford 30 or maybe the Ashford 20?

Ashford20/30? No contest. Buy the 30. You can always build a small fire in a large stove...but can't build a large fire in a small stove if you need it. The Ashford 20 has larger clearance requirements than the A30 so you'll end up with the small stove taking up about the same space as the larger one.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm not convinced either way, that is why I'm here. I've basically decided I would like to buy a BK ... and if all of you say that a cat is just fine and does not require a ton of maintenance I am willing to go with a cat. Now to narrow down a model that is right for my house ... Princess, Ashford 30 or maybe the Ashford 20?

Great news. I upgraded to a cat stove for 100% of home heating in a 9 month long heating season. It’s been a huge improvement in my wood burning life. I have since purchased a large noncat for my larger shop so I do recognize the situations in which a noncat is just as effective and even more desirable.

The 20 size bk cat stoves are slightly smaller but have larger clearance requirements so almost never save you actual floor space. They “only” burn 20 hours compared to 30 hours for the 30 series. Now, you might assume the smaller 20 stove would have less heat output but for some reason that is not true. The 30 series stove actually has a lower low output setting so it is the superior stove in all areas except the slight purchase price advantage of the 20. Get the 30.

Now the princess has some advantages over the 30 series box. A much cheaper cat (change every 10,000 hours), a 6” deep belly for ash, higher efficiency, but higher emissions. Both are good and really it’s an aesthetic and price decision for most. Go look at them.

Oh, one more important thing. You need a minimum of 15’ of all vertical chimney above all of the bk cat stoves. Any bends add length to this requirement so put the stove under the peak and plan carefully to exceed this minimum.

 

[A.K.304]

Oh, one more important thing. You need a minimum of 15’ of all vertical chimney above all of the bk cat stoves. Any bends add length to this requirement so put the stove under the peak and plan carefully to exceed this minimum.

I have a hole in my ceiling already where the chimney insert will go. The stove will go underneath it, no bends, but to get 15' the chimney will have to extend probably 7' past the roof. Will that be ok?

 

[Highbeam]

I have a hole in my ceiling already where the chimney insert will go. The stove will go underneath it, no bends, but to get 15' the chimney will have to extend probably 7' past the roof. Will that be ok?

Yes, it’s just fine but you will need just one roof brace (support “kit”)at the 5’ point. This means you can’t quite be at the ridge of the roof.

Single level homes like yours and mine with normal 4-5:12 pitch roofs have a hard time getting 15’ without quite tall external chimneys.

Use double wall interior pipe to the ceiling.

 

[kennyp2339]

Finally on the every other day loading schedule, yes I didn't miss type, every other DAY. I loaded the stove on Friday night, and just reloaded again Sunday at 1pm, had some hot coals in the ash still, I just raked them forward and put some small splits of oak on them, got the fire going and then did a full box load, get the cat active, burnt the stove on high and then turned the t-stat down to alien mode. It looks like 60's by the end of the week, so I might be wrapping it up soon, I'm gona miss firing the stove, but I have tons of outside work to do, which reminds me, I need to get my outdoor burning permit and my half barrel of miller lite this week.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Great news. I upgraded to a cat stove for 100% of home heating in a 9 month long heating season. It’s been a huge improvement in my wood burning life. I have since purchased a large noncat for my larger shop so I do recognize the situations in which a noncat is just as effective and even more desirable.

The 20 size bk cat stoves are slightly smaller but have larger clearance requirements so almost never save you actual floor space. They “only” burn 20 hours compared to 30 hours for the 30 series. Now, you might assume the smaller 20 stove would have less heat output but for some reason that is not true. The 30 series stove actually has a lower low output setting so it is the superior stove in all areas except the slight purchase price advantage of the 20. Get the 30.

Now the princess has some advantages over the 30 series box. A much cheaper cat (change every 10,000 hours), a 6” deep belly for ash, higher efficiency, but higher emissions. Both are good and really it’s an aesthetic and price decision for most. Go look at them.

Oh, one more important thing. You need a minimum of 15’ of all vertical chimney above all of the bk cat stoves. Any bends add length to this requirement so put the stove under the peak and plan carefully to exceed this minimum.

...what he said.

 

[AlbergSteve]

I've got eight foot ceilings and a flat roof, mine looks like the start of an oil refinery!

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm not convinced either way, that is why I'm here. I've basically decided I would like to buy a BK ... and if all of you say that a cat is just fine and does not require a ton of maintenance I am willing to go with a cat. Now to narrow down a model that is right for my house ... Princess, Ashford 30 or maybe the Ashford 20?

It's performance vs. aesthetics now at this point for you. Ironically, the "Princess" has the best practical features, the Ashford wins the beauty contest.

Do you want to show off her looks, or have one who really appreciates you.

Kidding, sort of. Just study the features, and decide which set is better for you in the long run.

Good luck.

 

[jetsam]

1) What is the ball park number of hours on a cat when you should thing of replace it (it is coated with a sacrificial cathode correct?). Some have posted these numbers on prior posts, but now I am confused.

Don't feel bad; I've been trying to pin that one down for years. Cat manufacturers say 10-12k hours. Everyone seems to agree that performance degrades with usage, and there's not a standard for what 'dead' is. I was unhappy with my cat after 2.25 years (12k-14k) hours and replaced it; BKVP ran the same cat for 18 years, and I assume he burns full time.

Right now my policy is "Just use it until you are not willing to accept its shoulder season performance anymore; give it a vinegar bath before junking it."

2) What should I expect that it will keep running clean but I need to increase the air more and more as the cat ages shorting burn times for more heat?

Hmm, in shoulder season, yes. In winter when you are running the stove harder, you may see worse emissions and less heat from a poorly-performing cat, but you won't need to run the stove harder to keep it active since the firebox is much hotter than the cat needs it to be anyway.

My advice would be to just buy a spare cat and a couple gaskets after a couple years. They won't go bad, and you will be ready when you decide it's time.

 

[jetsam]

I have seen some serious creosote situations with a BK in a home that’s way too small for the stove. Most of us here know how to prevent this, but without the proper burning technique, the cat won’t take care of the problem. If it’s just burned like any old stove, it will build creosote like “any old stove”

My experiences from this year would lead me to recommend a steel cat to that guy, if he has dry wood anyway. I can turn my stove all the way down to the stop now and the cat will be active until the fuel is gone. (He probably didn't have dry wood, though.)

 

[webby3650]

My experiences from this year would lead me to recommend a steel cat to that guy, if he has dry wood anyway. I can turn my stove all the way down to the stop now and the cat will be active until the fuel is gone. (He probably didn't have dry wood, though.)

Dry wood wasn’t the problem. There’s been a few, not just one. Always was a small well insulated home, and the operator afraid to ever turn the t-stat up. Load er full and and leave it on low, all the time...

Your steel cat will calm down and act much like a ceramic next season.

 

[Doc C]

Is the goal to stay in the active zone? I am having trouble keeping it active. If I keep it set on 2 or above it stays there but if I turn it down below 2 then it drops out of active.

 

[Alpine1]

Yep, if you’re not in the “active “ zone the cat isn’t working. My Ashford stalls around 2o’clock too in shoulder season. At 3 it is a hair above active. There’s no fixed rule, every install is different. Outside temps play a role too. But it must be in the active zone for the cat to play its magic.

 

[Doc C]

Yep, if you’re not in the “active “ zone the cat isn’t working. My Ashford stalls around 2o’clock too in shoulder season. At 3 it is a hair above active. There’s no fixed rule, every install is different. Outside temps play a role too. But it must be in the active zone for the cat to play its magic.

That’s what I thought. Was thinking I could get more time out of the load if I could figure a way to turn it down farther and stay active. Still working out the kinks and getting everything fine tuned.

 

[webby3650]

That’s what I thought. Was thinking I could get more time out of the load if I could figure a way to turn it down farther and stay active. Still working out the kinks and getting everything fine tuned.

When the stove is cold, make sure your cat probe thermometer is accurate. It shouldn’t be pointed below the last mark under inactive. If it’s under the mark it needs calibration.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Did a little experiment today. It's been about 13C all day today and I maybe half loaded the stove this morning. At noon I turned the stat to 12 o'clock and "rode the hole" for six hours. Just got back, got a big bed of coals and the cat is still active and most of the house is 23-25C.