2023/24 VC Temperature discussion thread

[AsylumResident]

I did a cold start today and then once I had a decent bed of coals I did small, less than half load. It was two splits of solid ash and one piece that was kind of punky. It lit quick. My flue hit 800 in less than a minute and my cat is at 1400 within 30 minutes. I usually struggle to get my cat to 1100 from the first load of a cold start on a load this small.

The difference...this is the second time I've put a peice of punky wood in. The first time I did that was when my stove went nuclear on me.

 

[Rusty18]

Well the plan to stuff the stove got aborted. Got the pile about to where I had it last night and it caught…had to reload before the starter fire was burned down so there were a few chunks of coals in the way. Timing dictated it was reload now or not till tomorrow.
So we are gonna have a repeat from last night except this time the coals lit the new load front and center instead of back right corner.

Well let’s just say I bumped the alarm up to 1780 so it wouldn’t keep going off. Not sure if all the details but draft was the issue tonight. First part of the run went just like last night but cat kept creeping high and higher. Opening the secondary flapper didn’t even stop it from going to 1700. Nothing it did helped, opened the top door and used poker to collapse the load, tried burning more in the primary, the list goes on and on. Anyways when I opened the window by the stove the air started blasting through a 1” crack and within 30 seconds cat temp started dropping and within 3 mins dropped from 1700 to 1460.

And as I’m typing this it’s starting back up. Dang chicken bones…

Update. Back up to 1650 and back puffing. Must have a had a bad piece of wood in the pile. Yes there were two splits with bark on them, maple.

…it’s burns like this that makes me want to use this stove as a flower pot!

Final answer…
Cat at 1000 stt at 550, both coming down. Not sure if it was timing or draft related but I kicked on my hvac blower (it pressurizes the upstairs due to screwed up duct work) and my window quite sucking in air and stove lined out immediately. So was either a bad piece of wood or poor draft or both or neither…
Any how it’s cooling down now, won’t reload anymore tonight.

 

[Eman85]

My cat alarm is set to 1600.... I do get occasional wakeup calls from it....

It has 4 different settings, 2 high and 2 low. Did you set them all to 1600?

 

[Eman85]

My stove hasn't been cold in quite a few days, just keep it rolling. Been able to have good coals and 5-600 cat temps on reloads. 3/4 box let it burn good and flip the damper cat rises to 1,000 turn the air back to maybe 10% open and sit back and relax. So far highest is in 1400's.
I do have a cracked glass, new glass in the shop waiting until next week when it supposed to warm up to put it in.

 

[arnermd]

If I lived on a boat this stove would be sleeping with the fishes. Slept on the couch last night minding the stove..... ridiculous.

Typically closing down my key damper brings temps crashing down, not last night. I had to block the secondary air inlet completely when cat temps peaked at 1720....

Will be reviewing the BK brochures this weekend.

 

[arnermd]

It has 4 different settings, 2 high and 2 low. Did you set them all to 1600?

I do not use the Auber, I have a Watlow controller with one alarm setting. Has been 1600, last night it got bumped up to 1700.....

 

[AsylumResident]

If I lived on a boat this stove would be sleeping with the fishes. Slept on the couch last night minding the stove..... ridiculous.

Typically closing down my key damper brings temps crashing down, not last night. I had to block the secondary air inlet completely when cat temps peaked at 1720....

Will be reviewing the BK brochures this weekend.

View attachment 322096

My flue gets higher than yours at those cat temps. Is that because you have a key damper? You're running a metal cat now, right? Is that because of the metal cat?

 

[Eman85]

I do not use the Auber, I have a Watlow controller with one alarm setting. Has been 1600, last night it got bumped up to 1700.....

I thought you had an Auber meter. Anyone with an Auber? What do you have your alarm settings at?

Last night cat went into the 1400's and rising just before bed so I checked on it and it stopped rising about 1480 and started back down. I went to bed and everything must have been OK. This morning cat was in the high 500's when I opened the air and it went into the high 800's. I reloaded, let it run to 1,000 and shut it down to 10%. It settled and then started rising into the 1400's. I'm drinking coffee near the stove and have been walking the tightrope with it trying to get maximum heat and not let the cat run away, it's in the teens here and I want some heat. Every time the cat temps drop I give it a little more air, temps rise and then settle. It's almost surreal how controllable the stove has been.

 

[arnermd]

My flue gets higher than yours at those cat temps. Is that because you have a key damper? You're running a metal cat now, right? Is that because of the metal cat?

I do not think the key damper would have much effect on the flue temps, when it is full open (which is how I normally run it). Although my last mod a year or so ago I made a "seal" inside the stove pipe so I can get better shutoff. It seals around the OD of the damper disc so I can really shut the draft off. I posted some pics in last years thread.

Anyway... my point is that seal is a restriction in my pipe even with the damper full open so all else being equal my draft should be lower, maybe that is reducing my peak flue temps? Hard to say.....

The last 3 weeks I have been running the ceramic cat. I may go back to the the metal cat today, my general opinion is the metal cats are less hyperactive and I generally see lower peak cat temps with it. I think @Woodsplitter67 has made the same observations.

This behavior is really confounding (but typical over the last 10 years). I go weeks with the stove being predictable and controllable and then wham, the psychosis sets in.... So what changed?
- My control technique is the same so that's not it, clearly I am not compensating for something.....
- Over night temps are cooler here the last two days, maybe elevated draft?
- Wood? Same batch of wood I have been burning for over a month now. With the bark....haha

I am letting the stove cool off this morning so I can check for refractory damage and leaks in the seals, but I expect I will find nothing amiss....

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd it looks like you close your air down slower than I have been doing. At 1,000 I close it down to about 10% unless I have a very small load in the box. If I try and play with the air it will get away from me. After closing down the temps usually drop but then will start rising steadily to 13-1400 and then stabilize.

 

[arnermd]

@arnermd it looks like you close your air down slower than I have been doing. At 1,000 I close it down to about 10% unless I have a very small load in the box. If I try and play with the air it will get away from me. After closing down the temps usually drop but then will start rising steadily to 13-1400 and then stabilize.

Thanks for the comment, I can certainly try that. Do you go from 100% air to 10% in one shot at 1000F or do you step it down?

 

[Eman85]

One shot. I just hot reloaded, cat temp was high 700's and I opened the air and let it rise as high as it would go into the 800's. I stirred the coals to let the ashes drop and reloaded about 1/2 box or so. I pretty much closed the damper right away and the cat temps rose into the 1.000's and I shut it down to about 10%. As I type cat is holding at low 1,000's but I'm sure it will start rising shortly but won't go wild. Granted it drops the STT to 350 but it's warmed up outside from the teens to low 50's. I'll just let it run like this while I go out and reload my wood rack and do some other outdoor chores. Should have a good bed of coals and I'll reload around supper time enough for the overnite reload at 10PM.

 

[arnermd]

I think i figured out what changed.... it is the wood. I got into a solid row of Ash a couple days back. It was a beetle victim I dropped 2 years ago. Good looking wood, very solid and dry but it is driving the cat bonkers. I need to figure out how to burn it becuase I have a lot of it.... like 6+ cords....

Inspected the stove yesterday and saw no signs of damage or cracking, ceramic cat metal frame is warped and bowed more than it was a few weeks back. Switched back to my metal cat.

Last nights burn, all med ash splits, smaller load, just over half, less then 3/4. Had a good bed of coals so the cat lauched in a few minutes. Cut the air right down to 10% at cat=1000, about 5 minutes in. Temps dropped and recovered as expected, climbed to 1550 and then settled around 1400 - 1450. The ash is defintely more agessive than my red oak, I am not clear why ash burns so hot, the burn time was not much shorter than normal given the smaller load. Just seems to run hot and needs a lot less air. Maybe my ash trees are infused with thermite....

Moderately happy with this burn, a little hotter than I would like but I'll take it. No alarm wakeups last night so thats a win....

What changed from previous night?
- Metal cat (previously was running ceramic)
- Cut air back from 100% to 10% at cat=1000 (previously I would drop air to 60% at cat =1000 and then 20% at cat=1200)

If anybody has any lessons learned from burning ash send them my way....

 

[Kevin Weis]

Just to say in my Intrepid I switched to a ceramic cat from metal and not looking back. Ceramic is behaving itself well. 1/3 the price as well.

 

[Rusty18]

Mine appears to have survived the other night intact as well.

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd looks like it worked fine for that burn. My stove is still going steady for days now. Follow up on yesterdays burn, when I came in a couple of times I looked at the cat temps and they peaked in the 1400's then next time I looked was in the 1300's. At suppertime I reloaded 1/2 box and did the drill again with good results shutting the air down when cat crossed into the 1,000's. Reloaded a pretty full box at 10PM same deal closing the air at 1,000 and it cruised on through the night. This morning opened air and reloaded 1/2 box full blaze to clean glass flipped damper cat rose nicely to 1,000, flipped the damper cat slowed then steadily rose into the 1300's and settled for a slow decent.
FWIW I checked my Auber and so far since I hooked it up my peak temp has been 1530, I reset it so I can see what peak is on each load.
For me the cutting the air back at 1,000 works well and causes a lot less anxiety instead of trying to slowly drop the air which seems to give the cat too much fuel.

 

[sargeott]

I think i figured out what changed.... it is the wood. I got into a solid row of Ash a couple days back. It was a beetle victim I dropped 2 years ago. Good looking wood, very solid and dry but it is driving the cat bonkers. I need to figure out how to burn it becuase I have a lot of it.... like 6+ cords....

Inspected the stove yesterday and saw no signs of damage or cracking, ceramic cat metal frame is warped and bowed more than it was a few weeks back. Switched back to my metal cat.

Last nights burn, all med ash splits, smaller load, just over half, less then 3/4. Had a good bed of coals so the cat lauched in a few minutes. Cut the air right down to 10% at cat=1000, about 5 minutes in. Temps dropped and recovered as expected, climbed to 1550 and then settled around 1400 - 1450. The ash is defintely more agessive than my red oak, I am not clear why ash burns so hot, the burn time was not much shorter than normal given the smaller load. Just seems to run hot and needs a lot less air. Maybe my ash trees are infused with thermite....

Moderately happy with this burn, a little hotter than I would like but I'll take it. No alarm wakeups last night so thats a win....

What changed from previous night?
- Metal cat (previously was running ceramic)
- Cut air back from 100% to 10% at cat=1000 (previously I would drop air to 60% at cat =1000 and then 20% at cat=1200)

If anybody has any lessons learned from burning ash send them my way....

View attachment 322176

I had similar issues last year with ash. It was the first wood I tried burning when I got this stove and I thought the stove was possessed. I had to constantly manipulate primary air during each burn.
It burns hot and when you think you hit the cruise spot, it off gasses and temp change drastically.
I'm not burning ash this year because of the wild swings.

 

[arnermd]

I had similar issues last year with ash. It was the first wood I tried burning when I got this stove and I thought the stove was possessed. I had to constantly manipulate primary air during each burn.
It burns hot and when you think you hit the cruise spot, it off gasses and temp change drastically.
I'm not burning ash this year because of the wild swings.

You got that right.... I had a full load going this weekend, had it cruising for a couple hours at 1400 with 55% air (I was experimenting with higher air settings) in 5 minutes the cat went to 1600 and hung there for a while then slowly drifted back down.

Running higher air settings seems to help keep cat a little cooler (too early to say for sure), but I end up overheating the house....

I need to figure out how to burn this stuff because I have a ton of it and lots more ash still standing dead....

 

[sargeott]

You got that right.... I had a full load going this weekend, had it cruising for a couple hours at 1400 with 55% air (I was experimenting with higher air settings) in 5 minutes the cat went to 1600 and hung there for a while then slowly drifted back down.

Running higher air settings seems to help keep cat a little cooler (too early to say for sure), but I end up overheating the house....

I need to figure out how to burn this stuff because I have a ton of it and lots more ash still standing dead....

This may not be of much help, but here is what I did:
Let the house cool down to about 60 degrees before starting/ stoking the fire. Add the Ash wood, or cold start with it and when temps in the stove room get to 68 open a window and kick on a window fan. (mitiagte the temperature in advance).
At night dont reload any sooner than 2 hours before bed and run at 50% air. Be- prepared for an over heated house. Right before bed, shut the window and kill the fan. Close all the interior doors of the house and choke the air down (knowing the stove room is going to over temp).
That's what I dealt with every day last year buring that stuff unless it was below 18 degrees out. At this temp and lower our cabin won't stay warm enough inside and I could run the stove wide open with STT at 550 most of the time. It was terrible for long burns.
Keep in mind I was trying to learn my stove during this entire BS rodeo. The inside temps swings royally upset the family.

 

[AsylumResident]

You got that right.... I had a full load going this weekend, had it cruising for a couple hours at 1400 with 55% air (I was experimenting with higher air settings) in 5 minutes the cat went to 1600 and hung there for a while then slowly drifted back down.

Running higher air settings seems to help keep cat a little cooler (too early to say for sure), but I end up overheating the house....

I need to figure out how to burn this stuff because I have a ton of it and lots more ash still standing dead....

So this is where I am at. I too have tons of ash and will most likely be my burning fuel for the next few years, at least.

Sunday night I had a big problem. It was the first time I had to almost completely abort a burn. I was gone over the weekend and got back Sunday night. Before I started a fire I checked the cat. My cat cracked about a week back and now a decent size chunk had fallen out. I got about 2 cords of wood through that ceramic cat. I switch it out with a metal cat.

I started with a smaller fire, two large splits of ash with the cat engaged. That went ok so when the cat dropped low enough I loaded up the stove pretty full with large ash splits. I think I got about an hour of ok burn and then the apocalypse seemed to descend upon me. The cat shot high almost within seconds, but I was able to bring it back down some to around 1400 then all of sudden my flue gasses shot over 1200 with the cat about 1400. Never seen that before. That I couldn't get under control. I took some wood out and then messed with the stove for the next hour and half and nothing would settle in. The cat kept climbing and flue kept climbing. I pulled out more wood. When it was all said and done I had a bed of coals with one split half burnt left in the fire box. That finally allowed me to get in under control.

So two big changes, ash and a new cat. Since Sunday I have done a few smaller burns and I feel like I am learning the stove all over again. Everything reacts differently than it has the last few months. I am not worried, I will figure it out and be burning happily again. Just not sure how long this learning curve will be. My methods with the ceramic cat the locust wood won't cut it for the metal cat and ash wood.

 

[U235]

@AsylumResident - I’ll second that burning locust is very enjoyable in these stoves. So many coals! @Rusty18 ill also agree the Maple is like diesel soaked newspaper.

Hoping you guys figure out Ash as I’ve got probably 2+ years worth from a monster ash claimed by the borer at my in-laws house.

 

[sargeott]

Ash seems like unpredictable rocket fuel.
The value use case for me, if I have wood that doesn't produce much heat, throw in an ash log. If I want a constant burn rate with predictable heat, it won't be a full load of ash.
Just me .02

 

[arnermd]

So this is where I am at. I too have tons of ash and will most likely be my burning fuel for the next few years, at least.

Sunday night I had a big problem. It was the first time I had to almost completely abort a burn. I was gone over the weekend and got back Sunday night. Before I started a fire I checked the cat. My cat cracked about a week back and now a decent size chunk had fallen out. I got about 2 cords of wood through that ceramic cat. I switch it out with a metal cat.

I started with a smaller fire, two large splits of ash with the cat engaged. That went ok so when the cat dropped low enough I loaded up the stove pretty full with large ash splits. I think I got about an hour of ok burn and then the apocalypse seemed to descend upon me. The cat shot high almost within seconds, but I was able to bring it back down some to around 1400 then all of sudden my flue gasses shot over 1200 with the cat about 1400. Never seen that before. That I couldn't get under control. I took some wood out and then messed with the stove for the next hour and half and nothing would settle in. The cat kept climbing and flue kept climbing. I pulled out more wood. When it was all said and done I had a bed of coals with one split half burnt left in the fire box. That finally allowed me to get in under control.

So two big changes, ash and a new cat. Since Sunday I have done a few smaller burns and I feel like I am learning the stove all over again. Everything reacts differently than it has the last few months. I am not worried, I will figure it out and be burning happily again. Just not sure how long this learning curve will be. My methods with the ceramic cat the locust wood won't cut it for the metal cat and ash wood.

Very sorry to hear this story..... I know exactly how you feel, amazing how similar our experiences are.... but you have drained all hope for me. I think there is no cure, the stove is what it is.

I do have one suggestion for you, make a plate to cover the secondary inlet completely and get some magnets to hold it in place. It will kill your secondary temps when all else fails and you can leave the damper closed.

As I was working through my pile of ash I was burning small loads 1/2 or less with 60% air and that helped. Still managed to get it through the night and avoid striking a match. I am now back to mostly red oak and it seems like I can't keep the cat lit...... 100% air till cat gets to 1000 then I throttle it down to 60% and cat temps drop to 550-600 in an hour..... always something. Might be reduced draft due to warmer temps and some buildup in the stack.

 

[Eman85]

So far my stove has been remarkably easy and predictable. It's been rolling 24/7 since I cleaned and reloading hot and cold. The colder reloads I just wait for STT to rise to 500 and close the damper. Still doing things the same with closing the air down but I've been letting it run to 1100 then closing the air to 10%. Cat will drop down to the 900's or so and then rise nicely to the 1200-1400's depending on the size of load. It will burn nicely and cat temps drop slowly. If I'm around I'll open the air more to keep the cat hotter and get a little more heat from the stove. I've been using the max temp recorder feature of the Auber and highest has been in the 1400's. My wood is mixed, has some ash, cherry. oak, walnut, hickory and locust probably some ironwood and any other thing I cut.

 

[Sticker]

I feel its a combination.. starved for air and a buildup of gasses in the box.. you finally get an ignition and off it goes..

Question from reading Novembers posts. Stove is a VC Encore, wood is very seasoned (12%) and stored inside of dry building. Flue is 6" 27' with exceptional draft compared to wood stoves I've ran in the past with 16 'flue.

So we built new home and wanted wood stove in case of emergency, but also I like to work with firewood. Last season i figured out i had to get the fire going , then within 15 minutes shut air off as tight as possible to keep extra strong flue draft from overheating stove and especially catalyst ( no temperature reading, just going by white zone on dial in back of stove).

Cutting air off gave me smooth 4-5 hour burns that heated a 3000 sq ft home very comfortably (75 main room, 72 most of house). Problem was/is I would get some dark glass and very gentle puff backs as the hot fire was just a little too starved for oxygen IMO.

So, seeing cold air is headed to Ohio next week, I tried to open the air up a bit this morning. As the fire gained in heat, it eventually started puffing again, this time more forceably, I'm assuming because it was larger and more intense but still incapable of burning all the released gasses with the amount of oxygen im feeding it? This time the back fires have caused smoke into the room, thankfully Moms not home to appreciate my pyrotechnics on display.

So my primary questions are
1- is the cat really too hot when outside the white painted area?
2- am I burning it wrong starving it for air before just as the wood gets ignited well?

I weigh my wood, and burn 120lbs per day on an average 35 degree winter day. That equates to about 547,000 btu's actual heat if stove is converting at 80% efficiency. This number is almost exactly what it takes on a similar temperature day to heat with propane. Propane use is 6.4 gallons per day at 93% efficiency yielding the same 550,000 btu's.