2025/26 VC performance discussion thread

[Smokey Da Bears]

I had started to question this about a week ago (look at Post #104 above in this thread). But ever since relighting the stove last Thursday and running it the last few days I've continued to question if my catalyst is dead - or at least on it's way. It does have moments of brilliance (temps 1000-1400) but this past week it seems to predominantly be hanging in that 800 range for sustained periods of time when in my mind it feels like it should certainly be hotter. The only thing that makes sense to me is the catalyst is dead and not lighting off. I'm seeing more smoke with catalyst engaged then I am when not.

I've got a new metal catalyst picked up last February on the shelf but that means letting the stove go cold, so that's what I'm doing into tomorrow. 👎👎 Bought this catalyst from Midwest Hearth January 2025 and they want a picture before looking at warranty. My recollection and what I said in Post #104, structurally it looked totally normal a week ago. In talking with Midwest Hearth this afternoon, "a catalyst temperature on the exhaust side of the draft above 1600 is considered overheating". I have seen catalyst temps above 1600 with this stove but not really as of late. I have seen 1500-1550 over the last few weeks.

I'll update after swapping this out. Probably take the time to sweep the chimney while I'm at it. Hyperactive new catalyst here we come!

 

[VRB Farm]

I had started to question this about a week ago (look at Post #104 above in this thread). But ever since relighting the stove last Thursday and running it the last few days I've continued to question if my catalyst is dead - or at least on it's way. It does have moments of brilliance (temps 1000-1400) but this past week it seems to predominantly be hanging in that 800 range for sustained periods of time when in my mind it feels like it should certainly be hotter. The only thing that makes sense to me is the catalyst is dead and not lighting off. I'm seeing more smoke with catalyst engaged then I am when not.

I've got a new metal catalyst picked up last February on the shelf but that means letting the stove go cold, so that's what I'm doing into tomorrow. 👎👎 Bought this catalyst from Midwest Hearth January 2025 and they want a picture before looking at warranty. My recollection and what I said in Post #104, structurally it looked totally normal a week ago. In talking with Midwest Hearth this afternoon, "a catalyst temperature on the exhaust side of the draft above 1600 is considered overheating". I have seen catalyst temps above 1600 with this stove but not really as of late. I have seen 1500-1550 over the last few weeks.

I'll update after swapping this out. Probably take the time to sweep the chimney while I'm at it. Hyperactive new catalyst here we come!

Best of luck, I’ve been pleased with my metal one. Not as fussy as the ceramic in my opinion.

Curious once/if they warranty it if you do the boil in vinegar treatment on the old if it does wake it back up. I need to do this to an old ceramic one that only lasted 1 to 1-1/2 burn seasons, aka the learning years on my encore.

 

[Turbo89]

I had started to question this about a week ago (look at Post #104 above in this thread). But ever since relighting the stove last Thursday and running it the last few days I've continued to question if my catalyst is dead - or at least on it's way. It does have moments of brilliance (temps 1000-1400) but this past week it seems to predominantly be hanging in that 800 range for sustained periods of time when in my mind it feels like it should certainly be hotter. The only thing that makes sense to me is the catalyst is dead and not lighting off. I'm seeing more smoke with catalyst engaged then I am when not.

I've got a new metal catalyst picked up last February on the shelf but that means letting the stove go cold, so that's what I'm doing into tomorrow. 👎👎 Bought this catalyst from Midwest Hearth January 2025 and they want a picture before looking at warranty. My recollection and what I said in Post #104, structurally it looked totally normal a week ago. In talking with Midwest Hearth this afternoon, "a catalyst temperature on the exhaust side of the draft above 1600 is considered overheating". I have seen catalyst temps above 1600 with this stove but not really as of late. I have seen 1500-1550 over the last few weeks.

I'll update after swapping this out. Probably take the time to sweep the chimney while I'm at it. Hyperactive new catalyst here we come!

Is your ash tray really full? I notice when my encore is stuffed with ash it struggles to crack 1000 degrees and Smokes a little more. As soon as I pull out ash, back to normal.

 

[Jarch2202]

I am still trying to sift through and determine the best way to operate my dauntless stove. Second season burning, first season putting the cat in.

I spent the first season following the manual, by closing the bypass immediately after reload, and this lead to a decent amount of creosote buildup.

This season i have a better grasp on temps and flue temps to keep the creosote down, but I cant figure out the best time to close the bypass. I would love to follow the manual and just load on a hot bed of coals and close it immediately, notch the air back and let it do its thing, this is pending the cat and flue are hot enough.

I have had a decent amount of success with loading and keeping the bypass open until hitting 450-500 stt, but I am concerned about flue temps. I had one instance of an overfire where the pipe was glowing for 3-4 minutes and was quickly resolved but it has me concerned with the bypass being left open for too long.

Long question short, how does everyone operate these? Do you follow the manual and close bypass immediately after loading with a hot bed of coals? Or do you keep it open and let it rip for a while and then close?

If the later, how do you manage flue temps? And how do you manage the notching back of air control to get to the right setting without it taking an hour, or sometimes more, from load to cruising?

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I had started to question this about a week ago (look at Post #104 above in this thread). But ever since relighting the stove last Thursday and running it the last few days I've continued to question if my catalyst is dead - or at least on it's way. It does have moments of brilliance (temps 1000-1400) but this past week it seems to predominantly be hanging in that 800 range for sustained periods of time when in my mind it feels like it should certainly be hotter. The only thing that makes sense to me is the catalyst is dead and not lighting off. I'm seeing more smoke with catalyst engaged then I am when not.

I've got a new metal catalyst picked up last February on the shelf but that means letting the stove go cold, so that's what I'm doing into tomorrow. 👎👎 Bought this catalyst from Midwest Hearth January 2025 and they want a picture before looking at warranty. My recollection and what I said in Post #104, structurally it looked totally normal a week ago. In talking with Midwest Hearth this afternoon, "a catalyst temperature on the exhaust side of the draft above 1600 is considered overheating". I have seen catalyst temps above 1600 with this stove but not really as of late. I have seen 1500-1550 over the last few weeks.

I'll update after swapping this out. Probably take the time to sweep the chimney while I'm at it. Hyperactive new catalyst here we come!

Normally when a cat is running like that it's super dirty or on its last leg. I normally use the metal cat as it doesn't crack. It tends to light off faster in my stove and tends not to get that super high spike. I use my compressor to blow my metal cat as it's more durable

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I am still trying to sift through and determine the best way to operate my dauntless stove. Second season burning, first season putting the cat in.

I spent the first season following the manual, by closing the bypass immediately after reload, and this lead to a decent amount of creosote buildup.

This season i have a better grasp on temps and flue temps to keep the creosote down, but I cant figure out the best time to close the bypass. I would love to follow the manual and just load on a hot bed of coals and close it immediately, notch the air back and let it do its thing, this is pending the cat and flue are hot enough.

I have had a decent amount of success with loading and keeping the bypass open until hitting 450-500 stt, but I am concerned about flue temps. I had one instance of an overfire where the pipe was glowing for 3-4 minutes and was quickly resolved but it has me concerned with the bypass being left open for too long.

Long question short, how does everyone operate these? Do you follow the manual and close bypass immediately after loading with a hot bed of coals? Or do you keep it open and let it rip for a while and then close?

If the later, how do you manage flue temps? And how do you manage the notching back of air control to get to the right setting without it taking an hour, or sometimes more, from load to cruising?

So basically I run my stove based on cat temperature alone. I'm using a digital cat probe that gives real time temperature. I can literally see if my cat is already active.. in which I can close the bypass or see that it's not active and let the stove get back to temperature.

I do run my stove when it's cold by stovepipe temperature. This will tell me if I have enough draft to run the stove. Normally it needs to be 309 or more to get a good burn going.

How are you determining cat temperature

What is the moisture of your wood and did you test it,.if you tested it how did you do it

 

[Jarch2202]

So basically I run my stove based on cat temperature alone. I'm using a digital cat probe that gives real time temperature. I can literally see if my cat is already active.. in which I can close the bypass or see that it's not active and let the stove get back to temperature.

I do run my stove when it's cold by stovepipe temperature. This will tell me if I have enough draft to run the stove. Normally it needs to be 309 or more to get a good burn going.

How are you determining cat temperature

What is the moisture of your wood and did you test it,.if you tested it how did you do it

I do have a catalyst probe that came with the kit, the first week it was consistently raising into the above active range, and i called the dealer and he said to not worry about the cat temp probe, and just worry about STT.

I split and test segments of my wood, i dont burn wet, there could be a stray 23% piece of ash here and there though.

 

[VRB Farm]

It will come up but go ahead ans purchase the auger 100 with high temp probe, this will replace the analog probe supplied. Completely changes how you have been running the stove, I believe it is the same cat chamber as the encore which has multiple threads on this.

I got mine at the beginning of last season after running “blind” with the analog. Pipe build up is down 95% with better burn times. Best $100 investment you can make for this stove.

 

[Jarch2202]

I did purchase an auber this season but I got the stove top magnet attachment. If I was to get the probe attachment do I need to get anything the thread it into to ensure a secure placement into the hole?

 

[VRB Farm]

I just used a little metal baling wire to help secure to the existing probe support. Nothing really to support.

Running off the cat temp vs STT is the way to go, you will find yourself not even paying attention to the STT.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I did purchase an auber this season but I got the stove top magnet attachment. If I was to get the probe attachment do I need to get anything the thread it into to ensure a secure placement into the hole?

You need the 2k degree K type thermo coupler and wire to to the auger

You will see the temperature in real time. Who ever told you to run the stove by STT doesn't know what they are talking about. Especially if the stove is already going.

Your checking your wood with a room temperature piece. Splitting it open and checking the freshly split face with the pins going with the grain.. I hope.. Any other way is incorrect.

 

[Smokey Da Bears]

Well my catalyst got BAKED. I had a few runs of cat temps in the 1500's over the last few weeks as I've gotten more comfortable with hitting those temperatures and loading my stove fuller and definitely getting longer burn times. I've actually been loving it. But I guess this catalyst couldn't take it. I did check this catalyst a week ago and it wasn't warped like this. It was actually unremarkable, little bit of fly ash but pretty intact. So I'm wondering if the Cat was dead and because it wouldn't light off, the warp happened. I don't know, I suppose it is what it is. Not sure if this will change my operation much or not. What say you?

I do give Midwest Hearth all the respect in the world - they discounted me $90 bucks on a replacement with warranty. And they told me they've seen much much worse. Glad I had one on the shelf as I'm lighting a fire this afternoon. My chimney looked fine and I didn't sweep, I'll usually do that in early January. Now I'll have another catalyst on the shelf again.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Well my catalyst got BAKED. I had a few runs of cat temps in the 1500's over the last few weeks as I've gotten more comfortable with hitting those temperatures and loading my stove fuller and definitely getting longer burn times. I've actually been loving it. But I guess this catalyst couldn't take it. I did check this catalyst a week ago and it wasn't warped like this. It was actually unremarkable, little bit of fly ash but pretty intact. So I'm wondering if the Cat was dead and because it wouldn't light off, the warp happened. I don't know, I suppose it is what it is. Not sure if this will change my operation much or not. What say you?

I do give Midwest Hearth all the respect in the world - they discounted me $90 bucks on a replacement with warranty. And they told me they've seen much much worse. Glad I had one on the shelf as I'm lighting a fire this afternoon. My chimney looked fine and I didn't sweep, I'll usually do that in early January. Now I'll have another catalyst on the shelf again.

Bro.. Iv never seen a cat warp like that. You get first prize for this. Iv had the ceramic crumble.. Iv even dropped mine on the floor and shatter it. Nothing like that picture.

 

[Smokey Da Bears]

Is that a compliment? Hahaha!

 

[dmccoole]

Well my catalyst got BAKED. I had a few runs of cat temps in the 1500's over the last few weeks as I've gotten more comfortable with hitting those temperatures and loading my stove fuller and definitely getting longer burn times. I've actually been loving it. But I guess this catalyst couldn't take it. I did check this catalyst a week ago and it wasn't warped like this. It was actually unremarkable, little bit of fly ash but pretty intact. So I'm wondering if the Cat was dead and because it wouldn't light off, the warp happened. I don't know, I suppose it is what it is. Not sure if this will change my operation much or not. What say you?

I do give Midwest Hearth all the respect in the world - they discounted me $90 bucks on a replacement with warranty. And they told me they've seen much much worse. Glad I had one on the shelf as I'm lighting a fire this afternoon. My chimney looked fine and I didn't sweep, I'll usually do that in early January. Now I'll have another catalyst on the shelf again.

Looks like a head on collision! Here's my metal cat after hitting 1740 last January. Only a small bulge out the bottom. I had a bunch into the 1600s before that with no issues to the cat. I ran it for the rest of the winter as well.

 

[arnermd]

Hi all.... you may have noticed I have been relatively quiet this season. The reason is because my stove has actually been running really well the past 6 weeks. A lot of full, hot reloads, engage the cat right after loading, bring the cat up to 1100 and step the air down to fully closed. Peak cat temps < 1450F for short periods, lots of time cruising in the 1000 - 1200F. Been wonderful, but alas the dream may be over......

See the plot below, this was the debacle this morning. Some coals from last night, opened up air all the way to heat the cat back up to 450, 3/4 load of some medium red oak splits, engaged the cat and let it heat up, at 1000F I dialed the air all the way down. As you can see the temps just kept on climbing.... I took no action and let it ride. At 1500F it started flashing over and burping some smoke back into the house. Eventually it burned itself out.....

So what changed?

• Same wood, same settings
• Outside air temp is a bit cooler lately. I have been measuring draft and generally is it around 0.1 iwc, today it peaked at max temp around 0.13 iwc.
• I redid all my gaskets over the summer, griddle, doors, glass and ash pan.
• A week ago I was struggling to get my metal cat up to temp, so I replaced it with a used ceramic cat.
  • Maybe that is it? Ceramic cat is more hyperactive???

Things were going really well.... I was hopeful. Praying I can get this stove back on the rails.... Might be time for another exorcism.

 

[arnermd]

Well my catalyst got BAKED. I had a few runs of cat temps in the 1500's over the last few weeks as I've gotten more comfortable with hitting those temperatures and loading my stove fuller and definitely getting longer burn times. I've actually been loving it. But I guess this catalyst couldn't take it. I did check this catalyst a week ago and it wasn't warped like this. It was actually unremarkable, little bit of fly ash but pretty intact. So I'm wondering if the Cat was dead and because it wouldn't light off, the warp happened. I don't know, I suppose it is what it is. Not sure if this will change my operation much or not. What say you?

I do give Midwest Hearth all the respect in the world - they discounted me $90 bucks on a replacement with warranty. And they told me they've seen much much worse. Glad I had one on the shelf as I'm lighting a fire this afternoon. My chimney looked fine and I didn't sweep, I'll usually do that in early January. Now I'll have another catalyst on the shelf again.

That is worse than I have ever seen from mine, ceramic or metal. Typically my metal ones look like the pics posted by @dmccoole.

I am very surprised you got $ from Midwest, I thought they discontinued any kind of warranty for the VC 2n1's.... maybe that was Condar....

 

[Smokey Da Bears]

That is worse than I have ever seen from mine, ceramic or metal. Typically my metal ones look like the pics posted by @dmccoole.

I am very surprised you got $ from Midwest, I thought they discontinued any kind of warranty for the VC 2n1's.... maybe that was Condar....

Trust me, I was shocked to see it as well and I feel strongly that I hadn't really hit sustained temps above 1550 and had been cruising pretty well lately. My history with catalysts has been fairly stable. The original ceramic catalyst that came with my stove was wrecked immediately, which had everything to do with the two guys that wheeled my stove into the house. I'm pretty sure those jabronis were pulled the day before the job from the baggage line at Logan airport as there were other issues I had to deal with after a crap install. After I read in maybe the 2022/2023 VC thread, I saw that most people were converting over to the metal catalyst so that's what I bought. That Catalyst lasted me 2 and a 1/2 seasons before I saw it fading, but structurally it was completely fine. No bending or warping. I still have it on the shelf and have debated a wash that I never got around to. At that time Midwest Hearth gave me a 30% discount and I bought another one, which is the catalyst warped to hell and back in my Hall of Fame picture above.

That said....have you ever seen this video? Check out the catalyst around the 2 minute 10 second mark.
VC Defiant Catalyst Replacement after 2 Seasons

Now you've seen it all!

 

[Burnin Since 1991]

Trust me, I was shocked to see it as well and I feel strongly that I hadn't really hit sustained temps above 1550 and had been cruising pretty well lately. My history with catalysts has been fairly stable. The original ceramic catalyst that came with my stove was wrecked immediately, which had everything to do with the two guys that wheeled my stove into the house. I'm pretty sure those jabronis were pulled the day before the job from the baggage line at Logan airport as there were other issues I had to deal with after a crap install. After I read in maybe the 2022/2023 VC thread, I saw that most people were converting over to the metal catalyst so that's what I bought. That Catalyst lasted me 2 and a 1/2 seasons before I saw it fading, but structurally it was completely fine. No bending or warping. I still have it on the shelf and have debated a wash that I never got around to. At that time Midwest Hearth gave me a 30% discount and I bought another one, which is the catalyst warped to hell and back in my Hall of Fame picture above.

That said....have you ever seen this video? Check out the catalyst around the 2 minute 10 second mark.
VC Defiant Catalyst Replacement after 2 Seasons

Now you've seen it all!

I don't know. I think he could have gotten another season out of it. 😁 🎄

 

[bullittman281]

I don't know. I think he could have gotten another season out of it. 😁 🎄

Holly cow, how HOT does he run that???? Even the andirons burnt off........😱😱

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Hi all.... you may have noticed I have been relatively quiet this season. The reason is because my stove has actually been running really well the past 6 weeks. A lot of full, hot reloads, engage the cat right after loading, bring the cat up to 1100 and step the air down to fully closed. Peak cat temps < 1450F for short periods, lots of time cruising in the 1000 - 1200F. Been wonderful, but alas the dream may be over......

See the plot below, this was the debacle this morning. Some coals from last night, opened up air all the way to heat the cat back up to 450, 3/4 load of some medium red oak splits, engaged the cat and let it heat up, at 1000F I dialed the air all the way down. As you can see the temps just kept on climbing.... I took no action and let it ride. At 1500F it started flashing over and burping some smoke back into the house. Eventually it burned itself out..... View attachment 343631

So what changed?

• Same wood, same settings
• Outside air temp is a bit cooler lately. I have been measuring draft and generally is it around 0.1 iwc, today it peaked at max temp around 0.13 iwc.
• I redid all my gaskets over the summer, griddle, doors, glass and ash pan.
• A week ago I was struggling to get my metal cat up to temp, so I replaced it with a used ceramic cat.
  • Maybe that is it? Ceramic cat is more hyperactive???

Things were going really well.... I was hopeful. Praying I can get this stove back on the rails.... Might be time for another exorcism.

My stove ran the best with the metal cat. The ceramic tends to light off slower, gets hotter, and crumbles if your rough with it

 

[arnermd]

Trust me, I was shocked to see it as well and I feel strongly that I hadn't really hit sustained temps above 1550 and had been cruising pretty well lately. My history with catalysts has been fairly stable. The original ceramic catalyst that came with my stove was wrecked immediately, which had everything to do with the two guys that wheeled my stove into the house. I'm pretty sure those jabronis were pulled the day before the job from the baggage line at Logan airport as there were other issues I had to deal with after a crap install. After I read in maybe the 2022/2023 VC thread, I saw that most people were converting over to the metal catalyst so that's what I bought. That Catalyst lasted me 2 and a 1/2 seasons before I saw it fading, but structurally it was completely fine. No bending or warping. I still have it on the shelf and have debated a wash that I never got around to. At that time Midwest Hearth gave me a 30% discount and I bought another one, which is the catalyst warped to hell and back in my Hall of Fame picture above.

That said....have you ever seen this video? Check out the catalyst around the 2 minute 10 second mark.
VC Defiant Catalyst Replacement after 2 Seasons

Now you've seen it all!

Some of mine have been nearly that bad. One year I collected all the large pieces and stacked them on top of the holes in another one.... it worked for a month or two and then completely fell apart. If you are getting 2.5 years out of a cat that's pretty good. I get 1.5 on average.

I have noticed the frame on the metal cats seem to hold up better than the ceramics, probably because the corrugated metal is not nearly as stiff as the ceramic cores.

I have done the vinegar wash on a couple cats, I had some success, got another month or two out of some.

I have had some that I would swear were dead for a few days but then all of sudden would light off. That was probably the masking that @Woodsplitter67 was referring too. Eventually it burns off and you re-expose the platinum to the smoke.... voila.

 

[Smokey Da Bears]

Hi all.... you may have noticed I have been relatively quiet this season. The reason is because my stove has actually been running really well the past 6 weeks. A lot of full, hot reloads, engage the cat right after loading, bring the cat up to 1100 and step the air down to fully closed. Peak cat temps < 1450F for short periods, lots of time cruising in the 1000 - 1200F. Been wonderful, but alas the dream may be over......

See the plot below, this was the debacle this morning. Some coals from last night, opened up air all the way to heat the cat back up to 450, 3/4 load of some medium red oak splits, engaged the cat and let it heat up, at 1000F I dialed the air all the way down. As you can see the temps just kept on climbing.... I took no action and let it ride. At 1500F it started flashing over and burping some smoke back into the house. Eventually it burned itself out..... View attachment 343631

So what changed?

• Same wood, same settings
• Outside air temp is a bit cooler lately. I have been measuring draft and generally is it around 0.1 iwc, today it peaked at max temp around 0.13 iwc.
• I redid all my gaskets over the summer, griddle, doors, glass and ash pan.
• A week ago I was struggling to get my metal cat up to temp, so I replaced it with a used ceramic cat.
  • Maybe that is it? Ceramic cat is more hyperactive???

Things were going really well.... I was hopeful. Praying I can get this stove back on the rails.... Might be time for another exorcism.

I’m no expert, and just cooked a cat, so it’s just an opinion…but it seems like you did exactly what’s been discussed in here, which is to let that thing ride. Looking at your STT temperature plot against your catalyst plot you probably could have gave it some primary air which would have prevented those burps. Your stove top had some room to heat which may have brought that cat down. But maybe not. I think this is where most of us say the Defiant at least, is not exactly a set it and forget it stove. But I’ve also been there debating every adjustment and farting all over it. Unless you baked the catalyst I wouldn’t sweat that one too much and enjoy the heat!