sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Awesome. Make sure to post some pics of your setup when you are done. Don't skimp on the technical details (driver, how you did the wiring...ect), we are interested. 
Anyone know anything about landscape lighting?
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Update on the light situation. I rented a trencher and ran 12/2 UF out to the firepit.
Sleeve through the block foundation wall.
Of course it had to run right through where a giant maple tree used to be, so I had to chainsaw through a bunch of giant roots.
I hadn't decided whether the LED driver would go inside or outside, so I also ran some 14/2 romex that could be used for the low voltage. Ran the wire into a plastic sleeve after it came out on the other end. Cut/chiseled out a little slot for the sleeve so I could stack more rocks on top and it keep it protected.
Bought an outdoor outlet/switch box at Home Depot. For $35 it includes the all weather box, GFCI outlet and switch. Welded up a little mounting bracket and used some Spax screws to mount the bracket to a big stone, and then the box to the bracket.
Forgot to get a pic of the inside, but I managed to mount the MeanWell 20W LED driver in the box along with a 12v PWM dimmer and a 120v photocell switch. I had to remove the dimmer guys from the housing but was able to squeeze it in the box between the switch and receptacle. Circuit goes to the GFCI outlet first, then to the switch, then the photocell and finally the driver and out to the lights.
For the actual lights, I used these $2.99 Little Dot SMD LEDs from superbrightleds.com. They are super small and allow for a stealth install.
I fished the wires under the top row of stones on the wall, and then used polyurethane adhesive to glue to the LEDs to the bottom edge of stones.
Daytime view... ignore the incomplete firepit construction, still gathering rocks to finish that up. Unless you look super closely, you really can't see the lights at all.
Nighttime view... will try and get a better photo.
Overall very pleased with how it turned out. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't have bought 16 gauge wire... it was unnecessarily big for these tiny lights. Otherwise very happy with everything. Any questions, ask away.
Materials list:
20W LED Driver - $12
LED dimmer - $6
Little Dot SMD LEDs - $3/ea
Photocell - $9
Outlet box - $35
Sleeve through the block foundation wall.
Of course it had to run right through where a giant maple tree used to be, so I had to chainsaw through a bunch of giant roots.
I hadn't decided whether the LED driver would go inside or outside, so I also ran some 14/2 romex that could be used for the low voltage. Ran the wire into a plastic sleeve after it came out on the other end. Cut/chiseled out a little slot for the sleeve so I could stack more rocks on top and it keep it protected.
Bought an outdoor outlet/switch box at Home Depot. For $35 it includes the all weather box, GFCI outlet and switch. Welded up a little mounting bracket and used some Spax screws to mount the bracket to a big stone, and then the box to the bracket.
Forgot to get a pic of the inside, but I managed to mount the MeanWell 20W LED driver in the box along with a 12v PWM dimmer and a 120v photocell switch. I had to remove the dimmer guys from the housing but was able to squeeze it in the box between the switch and receptacle. Circuit goes to the GFCI outlet first, then to the switch, then the photocell and finally the driver and out to the lights.
For the actual lights, I used these $2.99 Little Dot SMD LEDs from superbrightleds.com. They are super small and allow for a stealth install.
I fished the wires under the top row of stones on the wall, and then used polyurethane adhesive to glue to the LEDs to the bottom edge of stones.
Daytime view... ignore the incomplete firepit construction, still gathering rocks to finish that up. Unless you look super closely, you really can't see the lights at all.
Nighttime view... will try and get a better photo.
Overall very pleased with how it turned out. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't have bought 16 gauge wire... it was unnecessarily big for these tiny lights. Otherwise very happy with everything. Any questions, ask away.
Materials list:
20W LED Driver - $12
LED dimmer - $6
Little Dot SMD LEDs - $3/ea
Photocell - $9
Outlet box - $35
Project 2: front walkway
Again, wanted something stealth. Lights on the stone retaining wall were hidden in the same manner as the firepit. For the walkway lights, I used some insulation supports to make little light poles. Bent them in the vise and then spray painted matte black.
Used the same LEDs as above and ran them down the wire "pole", and then covered the whole thing in heat shrink tubing.
They are pretty discreet. The ones under the bushes you can't really see at all, and the one in the open is barely visible. They are actually in the original 'before' photo above.
Followed the same approach for the wiring except used a $6 AC disconnect box from Hope Depot. Mounted the driver in the box along with 120v photocell and manual on/off override switch. No dimmer this time.
Taa daaaa!
Again, wanted something stealth. Lights on the stone retaining wall were hidden in the same manner as the firepit. For the walkway lights, I used some insulation supports to make little light poles. Bent them in the vise and then spray painted matte black.
Used the same LEDs as above and ran them down the wire "pole", and then covered the whole thing in heat shrink tubing.
They are pretty discreet. The ones under the bushes you can't really see at all, and the one in the open is barely visible. They are actually in the original 'before' photo above.
Followed the same approach for the wiring except used a $6 AC disconnect box from Hope Depot. Mounted the driver in the box along with 120v photocell and manual on/off override switch. No dimmer this time.
Taa daaaa!
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Looks great man. Both projects came out great.
Just one thought. You might want to try and protect that LED a little bit. In your pathway lighting setup, they are very exposed and might get damaged with snow and someone accidentally bumping into them, or stepping on them. I would either put them in a cheap solar LED pathway light housing, or use some clear potting compound and build a protective 'shell' around them. Clear shrink tubing with a touch of clear RTV might do the trick.
They look water resistant, but there isn't much detail listing them as waterproof.
Just one thought. You might want to try and protect that LED a little bit. In your pathway lighting setup, they are very exposed and might get damaged with snow and someone accidentally bumping into them, or stepping on them. I would either put them in a cheap solar LED pathway light housing, or use some clear potting compound and build a protective 'shell' around them. Clear shrink tubing with a touch of clear RTV might do the trick.
They look water resistant, but there isn't much detail listing them as waterproof.
Thanks! Having lived with them for a few weeks now, I should have done these path lights 3 years ago. SO much better easier walking in the front door at night now that you can actually see (imagine that!) And it took < 3 hours and <$50.
I did consider a more robust housing but I really want them to be as discreet as possible during the daytime. The second one in particular is just out in the open and could easily be squashed by someone. There's actually not much to break though, and worst case I have to make a new one for $5. They claim to be IP65 weatherproof so we'll see how they hold up over the next few years.
I did consider a more robust housing but I really want them to be as discreet as possible during the daytime. The second one in particular is just out in the open and could easily be squashed by someone. There's actually not much to break though, and worst case I have to make a new one for $5. They claim to be IP65 weatherproof so we'll see how they hold up over the next few years.
semipro
Minister of Fire
Great stuff. Thanks for posting.
I'm working on some lighting for my deck and deck steps and you provided some great ideas and links to parts. I'd be interested to know how much power the LED drive pulls when the system is off. I'm picky about parasitic power draws. Of course, if you photocell controls the power to the LED driver than that's not an issue.
I'm working on some lighting for my deck and deck steps and you provided some great ideas and links to parts. I'd be interested to know how much power the LED drive pulls when the system is off. I'm picky about parasitic power draws. Of course, if you photocell controls the power to the LED driver than that's not an issue.
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
I know a good bit about landscape lighting, as I've been installing a system over the last year (with the assistance of my landscape contractor neighbor, who is a guru of sorts on them). I've been pretty unhappy about what's available, and have been working on a fundamentally different approach of my own. So, a few comments ...
1. Re. solar. Forget it. My GF has bought tons of them. They often are pukey light color, they don't last that long after dark, and they wear out quickly. If you have environmental guilt, mitigate it by putting some money aside toward a PV system (for your whole house).
2. Definitely go with LED. They use about 1/10 the energy (mine us about 1/2 watt each) making the decision to avoid solar easy.
3. You can use 18 gauge wire *IF* you stick with LED bulbs. Much cheaper and easier to work with, compared to 10- or 12-gauge wire.
4. Don't go with 48v. Code doesn't allow more than 30v for potentially-exposed wiring in wet locations, and then only if it's DC. The only reason to go higher than 12 or 24v would be to reduce the impact of voltage drops - you win two ways with higher voltage: less current (and therefore less voltage drop) needed for the same power, and a given voltage drop is a smaller proportion of the total. But, with LEDs, voltage drops are not a concern (because the current draw is so little).
5. Another reason to go with LED: you don't need the beefy and expensive transformers generally sold for landscape lighting. My old one is 900 watts and cost hundreds of dollars; my current lighting system uses much less than 100 watts.
6. There's a big rub with LEDs: the available bulbs aren't that great. You almost certainly want "warm white", which mimics an incandescent bulb. But lots of vendors sell "warm white" LEDs, but they're maybe 3000 CCT (the lower the warmer) whereas you want 2700 or less. I love superbrightleds.com for bulbs for my car (where I don't care about the color that much) but I find all their bulbs unsuitable for landscape. The best I've found, in the very common wedge-base form factor, are these, but they still aren't that great:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009DRF3VW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
These, on the other hand, look awful:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00II99ORU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
I don't quite understand why it's so hard to get good bulbs, probably just cost. Cree makes some LED emitters (the basic building block of an LED bulb) that look amazing: truly warm-white with 2700 color temperature, and 90 CRI (color-rendering index, 100 max, the other critical measure of light quality); but they cost $2 and up, so nobody is going to make bulbs from them (unless they can DIY, like me).
7. A lot of the fixtures are cheesy. The company that arguably invented this stuff, Nightscaping, makes great stuff; they went out of business, but you can still find some of their stuff on eBay.
8. "Astronomical" timers are neat. I have one in the wall box that controls the 120vac outlet that my system is plugged into to. It keeps track of time of year and thus approximate sunset time; you can tell it things like "turn the lights on at sunset and turn 'em off at midnight".
Have fun !
1. Re. solar. Forget it. My GF has bought tons of them. They often are pukey light color, they don't last that long after dark, and they wear out quickly. If you have environmental guilt, mitigate it by putting some money aside toward a PV system (for your whole house).
2. Definitely go with LED. They use about 1/10 the energy (mine us about 1/2 watt each) making the decision to avoid solar easy.
3. You can use 18 gauge wire *IF* you stick with LED bulbs. Much cheaper and easier to work with, compared to 10- or 12-gauge wire.
4. Don't go with 48v. Code doesn't allow more than 30v for potentially-exposed wiring in wet locations, and then only if it's DC. The only reason to go higher than 12 or 24v would be to reduce the impact of voltage drops - you win two ways with higher voltage: less current (and therefore less voltage drop) needed for the same power, and a given voltage drop is a smaller proportion of the total. But, with LEDs, voltage drops are not a concern (because the current draw is so little).
5. Another reason to go with LED: you don't need the beefy and expensive transformers generally sold for landscape lighting. My old one is 900 watts and cost hundreds of dollars; my current lighting system uses much less than 100 watts.
6. There's a big rub with LEDs: the available bulbs aren't that great. You almost certainly want "warm white", which mimics an incandescent bulb. But lots of vendors sell "warm white" LEDs, but they're maybe 3000 CCT (the lower the warmer) whereas you want 2700 or less. I love superbrightleds.com for bulbs for my car (where I don't care about the color that much) but I find all their bulbs unsuitable for landscape. The best I've found, in the very common wedge-base form factor, are these, but they still aren't that great:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009DRF3VW?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00
These, on the other hand, look awful:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00II99ORU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
I don't quite understand why it's so hard to get good bulbs, probably just cost. Cree makes some LED emitters (the basic building block of an LED bulb) that look amazing: truly warm-white with 2700 color temperature, and 90 CRI (color-rendering index, 100 max, the other critical measure of light quality); but they cost $2 and up, so nobody is going to make bulbs from them (unless they can DIY, like me).
7. A lot of the fixtures are cheesy. The company that arguably invented this stuff, Nightscaping, makes great stuff; they went out of business, but you can still find some of their stuff on eBay.
8. "Astronomical" timers are neat. I have one in the wall box that controls the 120vac outlet that my system is plugged into to. It keeps track of time of year and thus approximate sunset time; you can tell it things like "turn the lights on at sunset and turn 'em off at midnight".
Have fun !
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
Great post, Rusty! However, as someone who designs things that get wired, let me point out there's still good reason to go heavier than 18 gauge. Landscape wiring is exposed to abuse, such as accidentally hitting it with gardening tools, tugging, roots, etc. Heavier wiring, while not required for voltage drop / capacity, is always more durable.
If you do go 18 AWG, there are some heavier jacketed wiring, that is quite durable. However, it may cost almost as much as just buying 500' rolls of regular AWG 14 or AWG 12 landscape wire.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Thanks.
Like you said, you can get wire with heavier insulation, and that's a lot cheaper (and easier to work with) than heavier copper.
It's getting dark pretty early now, so I was thinking about adding some LEDs to my wood shed so I can still fiddle around out there.
Too far from the house to run AC so I am considering either solar powered or battery powered LEDs. Probably just one or two, don't need tons of light, and might only use them a few hours a week. Any thoughts?
Too far from the house to run AC so I am considering either solar powered or battery powered LEDs. Probably just one or two, don't need tons of light, and might only use them a few hours a week. Any thoughts?
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
How far ? Could maybe run 12v, if you use LEDs out there 18ga should be fine, but like Ashful pointed out above, it needs to be landscape-light grade (or equivalent) so it has heavy enough insulation to protect it (still, rubber is cheaper than copper).
Failing that ... I've had very bad experiences with solar landscape lights; tend to be some crappy looking light (too cool and blue'ish), and wear out in a year or two. So maybe battery powered - just have to do the calculation and see how long batteries will last. The ones I linked above draw about 60ma at 12v, so 3 of them would last about 10 hours with a typical 1800mah battery - except it'd have to be a 12v battery, so 8-10 regular batteries in series (disposable alkaline at about 1.5v or rehcargable NiMH at about 1.25v, respectively). I'd try to run a wire if you can; it can't be that far if you go there to get firewood, can it ?
It is probably 150' from the house.... rather not run wire across the backyard and through the woods. I bring the wood up to the house with the tractor a pallet at a time.
I know those little path lights with the tiny panel on top get a bad rap, but wasn't sure about the other style.
I know those little path lights with the tiny panel on top get a bad rap, but wasn't sure about the other style.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Doesn't sound so bad to me. You gotta do that, or do something solar, or just batteries that have to be replaced fairly often. For solar, you might be better off with a little solar panel which charges a small 12v battery for overnight. I'm not sure - I've never set up a solar system - but you might need some sort of controller too.
Maybe there are some that don't suck, I don't know.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
If it was me, I'd run electricity to the shed. The small diameter underground (gray) PVC is only $1.25 per 10 feet! If it was 200' away, you're still <$30. Rent a small ditch witch for the day for $100.
What will cost the most is the wire. Romex ain't cheap.
What will cost the most is the wire. Romex ain't cheap.
I actually had a ditch witch at the house while running power out to my fire pit, but decided against running it to the wood shed. I had no interest in tearing up/repairing more lawn, or excavating over where my septic field is. Also the voltage drop calculators said I would need large cable to over that long a distance, even though experience has shown a bunch of 12 gauge extension cords do just fine. The shed is 150' from the house, out in the woods, and is basically a big roof over a big pile of firewood, so going through the whole town permit thing seemed overkill. Running power out there makes that a less defensible position.
My little brother just bought a pair of these for his chicken coop and just one is pretty darn bright. I like the simplicity of the one piece unit but with the overhang on the shed I don't think they'd get enough sun if I hung them on the posts.
My little brother just bought a pair of these for his chicken coop and just one is pretty darn bright. I like the simplicity of the one piece unit but with the overhang on the shed I don't think they'd get enough sun if I hung them on the posts.
Few updates...
For the wood shed light, I decided to make sure of a super bright rechargable LED flashlight and an old plastic lamp globe I had hanging around. I made up a little bracket that holds flashlight right above the globe and mounted it to the shed:
When I want to work at the shed at night time, I just bring out the flashlight and place it in the fixture. The globe really helps diffuse the light... hard to photograph, but the middle shed bay is very bright and the two side bays are decently bright. Definitely bright enough to split/stack wood.
Update on the path lights: two of the six LEDs stopped working maybe a month after installation. They are the two first in series after the power supply, but might be just a coincidence. I haven't gotten around to replacing them since the other four still give off enough light to illuminate the path. The other four are holding up well... were covered in snow for a week or two and they kept on glowing. I have run into/over a few of them and they are super easy to stick back into the ground, no permanent damage.
For the wood shed light, I decided to make sure of a super bright rechargable LED flashlight and an old plastic lamp globe I had hanging around. I made up a little bracket that holds flashlight right above the globe and mounted it to the shed:
When I want to work at the shed at night time, I just bring out the flashlight and place it in the fixture. The globe really helps diffuse the light... hard to photograph, but the middle shed bay is very bright and the two side bays are decently bright. Definitely bright enough to split/stack wood.
Update on the path lights: two of the six LEDs stopped working maybe a month after installation. They are the two first in series after the power supply, but might be just a coincidence. I haven't gotten around to replacing them since the other four still give off enough light to illuminate the path. The other four are holding up well... were covered in snow for a week or two and they kept on glowing. I have run into/over a few of them and they are super easy to stick back into the ground, no permanent damage.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
I think you'll find that in your application, you may want more protection from the elements with those little LED's.
I've thought about buying the cheapo solar lights and gutting them for my own LED creation.
Off the shelf LED path lights are getting pretty affordable.
I've thought about buying the cheapo solar lights and gutting them for my own LED creation.
Off the shelf LED path lights are getting pretty affordable.
semipro
Minister of Fire
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Looking at those LEDs on the picture above, I'm thinking they are not adequately heatsinked, so that's what caused the premature failure. LEDs are normally reflow-soldered onto tiny metal-core circuit boards (MCPCBs) called "stars"; even though the star is actually meant to be the interface to an actual heat sink, I find these provide enough heat dissipation by themselves when I'm running at about 1/2 watt, and certainly more heat dissipation than what I'm seeing in that photo..
There are a number of vendors who will sell you LEDs already mounted to stars, such as: http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_62
Unfortunately these are geared towards DIY flashlights, and since lumens-per-watt efficacy is higher with higher (cooler) color temperatures, that's what they tend to have, and I think the light tone is pretty unpleasing for landscape lighting. Instead, I buy my own emitters from mouser.com and that vendor will reflow them to his stars for free (if you buy the star from him).
These 2400-degree emitters look awesome:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...tualkey62510000virtualkey720-LCWCR7PEKSKU5YC8
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Neat, but why not just gas up the Coleman lantern? I always smile when I fire up mine, which reminds me of camping as a kid, and it's a great light for working at night.
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