I found a great deal on a F5100 at a local dealer for 2900 out the door. I should have it this weekend. I asked the difference between the 5100 and 5200 and they said nothing has changed just the name for new epa requirements.Out here in the west I’m close to Pacific Energy, Blaze king, and Regency. Most where offering 10-20%off this fall to clear out the old stock. The only good deal I saw was on a Regency 5100 .
Always good to hear from you. Sorry about the split, but I am glad you are doing well. Any thoughts on HHTs making some stoves with no user air control like the new VC Montpelier II? I'm hoping this is not a trend with their stoves.Hi BG- Unfortunately for me, the owner had an issue with me and another employee, I lost out. I did manage to get on with a larger company in RI, I'm an ops mgr there. I don't do a lot of sales anymore, I am a paper pusher, ordering and scheduling, resolving install and service issues and such. Nice company to be with, always forward thinking and planning. Wood stoves are a small part of the business, its 75 percent gas and wood fireplace installs from Hearth and Home Technology. Harman is our main pellet line.
In Canada we adopt the CSA B415 emissions standards. This CSA standard is the same as the EPA at a max of 2.5 g/hr.
Montreal just implemented the standards a year early, and required all old non EPA 2020 compliant appliances to be replaced with new versions due to poor air quality.
Most other jurisdictions in Canada have allowed all older appliance to remain in operation, just new ones must comply with the new standards.
Do you know for sure if Jotul is going to test a new Carrabassett? Would really like to see that stove come back.Hi Rosem, oh yeah forot Greenville- yes its approved, we just recently got her back on the floor. Hope the Carrabassett gets through, she is a heat-beast!
Look at the rule BeGreen. Single burn rate heaters are not put through the same rigorous testing.Always good to hear from you. Sorry about the split, but I am glad you are doing well. Any thoughts on HHTs making some stoves with no user air control like the new VC Montpelier II? I'm hoping this is not a trend with their stoves.
Yeah, dumb rule. Instead the homeowner does the testingLook at the rule BeGreen. Single burn rate heaters are not put through the same rigorous testing.
Yes indeed. The very fact that there is no sell through for retailers was a huge miss by EPA.Yeah, dumb rule. Instead the homeowner does the testing
Enforcement is done based on complaints. There aren't enough inspectors (and outside of visually looking at amount of smoke coming out of chimneys, how would one know whether the fireplace is compliant with the regulation?) so that is the only way to do determine enforcement. The fines are heavy though. According to our installer they think many people aren't complying but it is hard to know. Apparently the big city to the north, Laval, is also regulating the same way.Wow, I was surprised that they even banned more recent non2020 equivalent stoves. I doubted, so Googled. That must have caused some controversy. I wonder how they'll do enforcement. http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/portal/page?_pageid=7418,76005736&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Enforcement is done based on complaints. There aren't enough inspectors (and outside of visually looking at amount of smoke coming out of chimneys, how would one know whether the fireplace is compliant with the regulation?) so that is the only way to do determine enforcement. The fines are heavy though. According to our installer they think many people aren't complying but it is hard to know. Apparently the big city to the north, Laval, is also regulating the same way.
What I don't understand from your post above is what the difference is between a non 2020 equivalent and a 2020 stove. We bought an EPA certified stove that complies with the Montreal regulations. So how would one know if is compliant with 2020 regulation? Thanks.
I find it amazing that in the past decade and a half that we have not seen people posting here saying that they were nabbed by the clean air patrol and must upgrade their stove. Could be my memory but I think there was only one in the past 15 yrs.? I could pick out several in our community alone.
Sorry, am not sure I understand that sentence in bold. What are the 2020 standards if it is a rating of less than 2.5 g/hr? Isn't the 2020 standard less than 2.5 g/hr? What I understood from Montreal regulations is that it has to have a rating of less than 2.5 g/hr. So what is the 4.5 g/hr spec?Not necessarily it depends on the model you have.
At first the City of Montreal had to look at the old EPA regulations to decide whether or not to allow the appliance to be installed as most appliances weren't tested to 2020 standards yet. So if an appliance was certified to meet or exceed the old 4.5 g/hr spec but its rating was less than 2.5 g/hr it was allowed while not actually being tested to the 2020 standards.
Sorry, am not sure I understand that sentence in bold. What are the 2020 standards if it is a rating of less than 2.5 g/hr? Isn't the 2020 standard less than 2.5 g/hr? What I understood from Montreal regulations is that it has to have a rating of less than 2.5 g/hr. So what is the 4.5 g/hr spec?
Thanks. A bit strange if a stove has less that 2.5 but only is certified to 4.5. Why couldn't they be certified at less than 2.5 is that is in fact what their emissions are? Thanks for your patience on this as I am trying to understand this complex regulation.4.5g/hr is the old EPA spec. The 2.5g/hr spec comes into effect this year.
The city of Montreal did this to allow some grace for stove buyers. At the time of their new regulations very few appliances had been certified to EPA 2020. But there were many appliances that were certified to the old standard of 4.5g/hr but actually had emissions of less than 2.5g/hr, these were then granted acceptance for use.
It's basically a technicality in the interpretation of the rules. As of May new stoves that don't have the EPA 2020 certification can't be sold in the US and many parts of Canada. Even though some of these old appliances that can't be sold are appliances that have emissions of less than 2.5g/hr when they were certified to the old standard.
Also, is the emissions of less than 2.5 g/hr based on emissions with the converter engaged or if it is not engaged? Thanks.Thanks. A bit strange if a stove has less that 2.5 but only is certified to 4.5. Why couldn't they be certified at less than 2.5 is that is in fact what their emissions are? Thanks for your patience on this as I am trying to understand this complex regulation.
It is a different testing procedure than before.Thanks. A bit strange if a stove has less that 2.5 but only is certified to 4.5. Why couldn't they be certified at less than 2.5 is that is in fact what their emissions are? Thanks for your patience on this as I am trying to understand this complex regulation.
If it has a cat it would be tested with it engaged because that is how the stove is meant to be burnedAlso, is the emissions of less than 2.5 g/hr based on emissions with the converter engaged or if it is not engaged? Thanks.
At a bit of a tangent, but is anyone else a bit bewildered by the EPA's focus on stove emissions?
I'm all for effective environmental regulations, and when I was recently stove shopping I initially thought I'd definitely go for the cleanest stove possible. Then I realized that a decrease from 4.5 to 2.5 g/hr is obviously 2 g/hr, or 48 grams per day if burning 24 hrs/day.
Per the EPA, the average passenger car emits 411 grams of CO2 per mile, so that reducing one mile of driving accounts for more than a week's worth of reduction in stove emission from this new regulation.
I get that we don't want people burning tires in outdoor boilers and such, but worrying about exactly how clean modern stoves are burning while allowing unlimited driving seems to be a matter of misplaced priorities.
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