Ashford 25 Insert with existing ZC fireplace

[dan.madigan08]

October 2024, we had an Ashford 25 insert installed in our home. We had around a 30 year old Green Earth? brand Woodstove insert, that nobody would work on for us. I was and still am relatively new to the whole woodstove world as I moved into the home to help out family. (Family passed and so did any knowledge on the existing stove and operation).

What I now have come to understand is that we have a zero clearance here. the wall the fireplace is built into is all faux stone and basically in a huge cavity with sheet metal alcove so to speak. There are two seperate room air circulators with in line fans. I can stand in the “dead space” so to speak via a hatch. The new Ashford is on the main floor of a maybe 700sf home. Pretty poor general air flow/circulation between the basement to second floor. Pellet stove in basement.

First year of new install really had few issues. Seemed to run well.

This second year i keep running into backdraft and smoking the house out any time the loading door is opened. I also really struggle to get the stove ripping and keep the cat in the active zone very long if at all.

Woodstove is vented up through I believe is the zc sheet metal from main floor up to second floor, through attic and roof. Over the roof ridge. Probably around 25’ total. This was installed with 6” insulated SS liner down through the sheet metal zc (I think that’s what I call it).

Installer cleaned woodstove before burning this season but never checked roof/chimney cap. I had them cleaning pellet and woodstove at the time and I didn’t watch guy doing woodstove as I was working…So I called them back to check that this year due to the backdrafts. They found the screen on the chimney cap to be extremely lined with soot/creosote.. maybe 1” thick all around. They removed screen and reminded me I need to burn way hotter. I’m running out of ideas here. I really need to run the temp setting at full to even get it going at all or stay going. It tends to go right out on me. I rarely ever can see flames without keeping door open, this year seems the door is always black, can’t get it good and hot.

I did just purchase moisture meter to check wood mc but wood was all CSS early in the spring this year, set in the sun kept covered, good airflow throughout etc so I’m confident it is ok but will check mc soon to confirm.

As I read more it sounds like this insert being placed into ZC without specified listed enclosure, was a huge no no. Which I had no clue on at the time. Went with who I thought was reputable installer and price tag to match. Trying to do everything as by the books as we could by using reputable installer (was recommended by a few people and not too many options around) however we didn’t get inspected or permit…. (Didn’t consider that part till after)

So I guess my question is what’s with all the back draft/smoke..

How does air flow on these in general? I know the temp flap responds to turning rod but is almost always at full bore or it goes out completely.

Do I need the fan running to help air flow entering underside of the stove?

How does air flow from under stove, where the temp coil and flapper is.. to the heating chamber?

Cat temp rarely reaches active zone.. can I use an IR gun to read temp at the coal bed or door or anywhere on the unit as an indication of cat being ready?

Cat looked ok, I don’t brush it off a bit but didn’t seem terrible..

Was I totally shafted by this install going into existing zc and now don’t have the air flow needed in general? Liner seems attached and seated, however I plan to let stove cool this week and pull it out and really check it all over for being sealed and at least connected to best of my knowledge and understanding of manual.

I’d appreciate any help and input and can take or send photos of any or all components

 

[kborndale]

I would think your problem is wet wood. The plugged up cap is an indicator of wet wood.

 

[Crab]

I did just purchase moisture meter to check wood mc but wood was all CSS early in the spring this year, set in the sun kept covered, good airflow throughout etc so I’m confident it is ok but will check mc soon to confirm.

I agree with kborndale, wood could not have dried enough over 1 sumner especially if it is hardwoods. Need @bholler or @begreen and pics to answer install issues.

 

[begreen]

The sweep did not do his job by forgoing the chimney cap clean. A proper cleaning should have solved the back draft issue unless there is also a house-related issue causing it. This could be because of leaky upstairs windows, a leaky attic door or ceiling vent, or the running of exhaust appliances like a kitchen fan, dryer, bath fan.

The wood does sound suspect, especially if it's hardwood. To test it properly, warm up a few thick splits in the house for a few hours. Then, split them in half and test in the middle of the freshly exposed face of wood with the points parallel to the grain. Push them in firmly.

 

[spudman99]

You clearly seem a bit overwhelmed in this case (not intimidated, rather several overlapping issues that make it harder to solve). I suggest breaking them down individually.

1. Wet Wood. Easiest to solve. Depending on your species of wood, how humid your environment is, 1 year may not be enough seasoning time. One way to check this is to purchase an imitation log, like a North Idaho Energy Log. In the alternative, if you have any 2x4 wood or other dimensional lumber laying around, both can be used as clean burning wood. Try them in a sample fire so see if your draft gets up to speed. This would also generate a hot fire to see the cat thermometer move and also let you gauge turn down thermostat settings.

Of course do the proper wood moisture check. Bring a log you plan to burn inside for at least 24 hours. Then go outside and split it in half and use your moisture meter in the middle of the freshly split section, Pins should be parallel or running with the grain when checking, and push them in pretty hard by had. A light jab into the wood is usually not sufficient.

2. Starting procedure. I will not repeat that here, many threads about how to start and get a fire rolling in a Blaze King. Search is your friend. Assuming good wood, this will get you out of the gate

3. Dont brush the cat. A visual inspection is all you need. Remove the flame shield and look. You can blow thru it with those computer air cans, or a compressor at very low pressure. Blowing is used to remove fly ash from prior fires. Sounds like that is not your issue but check.

4. If there is a local Blaze King dealer near you, reach out to them. Even if you have to pay for an hour or 2 of their time, they have the experience to look over your stove and suggest/show you operating procedures. While I realize they may not be true "experts", they should have enough experience in overall wood stove operation to be of assistance. Maybe another Hearth member who is nearby would also assist. Incredibly helpful community herein and its worth asking.

Good luck. Pics are always helpful to diagnose your issues. Stick with us here as I am sure this site can get you into an operating state that works for you and your family.

 

[dan.madigan08]

I don’t want to say all is fixed.. but I will say, I decided to run the brush up through the chimney to be sure, and got close to a 5 gal bucket of soot and creosote out.. I’m thinking that when it was cleaned, they may have only went so far and hit a block and stopped, thinking it was the cap.. I have her ripping to an extent it hadn’t since last year. Went about an hour full bore, and has been thoroughly in the active zone for the cat so running there for now, slowly bringing temp setting down too. Photos below are before cleaning today and inside the wall cavity and cat at this point. Stay tuned. Hoping to keep this momentum. Also started with newspaper, fatwood, and a package of kiln dried to be sure it was ripping. Testing my splits this week for MC as I get more time.

 

[begreen]

5 gallons is a huge amount of soot and sote. The sweep needs to refund you. That is not in any way acceptable and could have been dangerous.

 

[dan.madigan08]

5 gallons is a huge amount of soot and sote. The sweep needs to refund you. That is not in any way acceptable and could have been dangerous.

You’re telling me… I didn’t think I was completely crazy.. but the whole situation sent me down a rabbit hole on all possibilities. Here’s to hoping it stays on the up n up🔥💨

 

[bholler]

I don’t want to say all is fixed.. but I will say, I decided to run the brush up through the chimney to be sure, and got close to a 5 gal bucket of soot and creosote out.. I’m thinking that when it was cleaned, they may have only went so far and hit a block and stopped, thinking it was the cap.. I have her ripping to an extent it hadn’t since last year. Went about an hour full bore, and has been thoroughly in the active zone for the cat so running there for now, slowly bringing temp setting down too. Photos below are before cleaning today and inside the wall cavity and cat at this point. Stay tuned. Hoping to keep this momentum. Also started with newspaper, fatwood, and a package of kiln dried to be sure it was ripping. Testing my splits this week for MC as I get more time.

View attachment 342567View attachment 342568View attachment 342569View attachment 342570View attachment 342571View attachment 342572

That install is very concerning

 

[dan.madigan08]

That install is very concerning

Ok point me in the right direction to learn why

 

[bholler]

Ok point me in the right direction to learn why

Because its an insert in an old prefab fireplace of unknown condition thst looks like it wasn't installed with proper clearance to begin with. That never allowed inserts to be installed in it. Its unknown if it has cooling channels that have ben covered up.

 

[dan.madigan08]

Because its an insert in an old prefab fireplace of unknown condition thst looks like it wasn't installed with proper clearance to begin with. That never allowed inserts to be installed in it. Its unknown if it has cooling channels that have ben covered up.

Idk if it helps or hurts the situation but there are two. See the red lines. With in line fans at the bottoms of each line that I can turn on and off

 

[bholler]

Idk if it helps or hurts the situation but there are two. See the red lines. With in line fans at the bottoms of each line that I can turn on and off

There are just to many unknowns. It may be perfectly safe but you are combining 2 systems that were never meant to be used together so I have no clue. Even if I was on site allot of it would be guessing because nothing has been tested

 

[mellow]

The manual for the Ashford 25 calls its out:

THIS APPLIANCE MAY NOT BE INSTALLED INTO A FACTORY BUILT FIREPLACE. FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL VOID ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES.

https://www.blazeking.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/180-AF25-v2.51.pdf

 

[dan.madigan08]

The manual for the Ashford 25 calls its out:

THIS APPLIANCE MAY NOT BE INSTALLED INTO A FACTORY BUILT FIREPLACE. FAILURE TO COMPLY WILL VOID ANY AND ALL WARRANTIES.

https://www.blazeking.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/180-AF25-v2.51.pdf

Solid. Great to know the installer actively did so smh.