Eko Project Installation

[Jayf19]

Here is my Eko project installation.. Given that I am not a professional in any parts of the installation, I've gone through a lot of mistakes! Anyhow, here it is so far...

Trench

I dug a 110 feet trench from the basement of my house up to the back of the garage. I initially wanted to have the pipe 4 feet deep (6 feet in the driveway) but that plan changed along the way. At first, I planned on installing a weeping tile under the pipe but once realizing I had no place to bring the water, I had to scratch that idea.

All in all, I'm about 2 feet deep where there is no traffic and about 4 feet deep in the driveway. I have pure stone under and above the pipe. The pipe is also covered in sand to protect from rock perforation. Along with the pipe, I also included the electrical cable from the garage to the house to connect the boiler on the backup power's electrical panel. I also included two 3/4 inch water pipes for phone and data lines.

 

[Jayf19]

Goodies trailer came in with 1,400 gallons of storage and the Eko 40.

In preparation to install the water tanks, I framed the whole back wall with 1 1/2 inch Eko foil insulation, which i then covered (partially) with aspenite. I intend to finish the wall once everything is installed and running.

I planned on having a thermal break between the steel of the tanks and the concrete slab, but since my concrete has a tendency of sweating, I thought I should raise everything to allow air to dry the slab when moisture accumulates. Unfortunately, I was advised here and from a a few local folks that I installed the bricks on the wrong side and that they most likely won't be strong enough to sustain the weight of the tanks once filled.

Therefore, I will be removing the bricks today and replacing them with 1 1/2 inch Eko foil insulation, covered with treated 3/4 inch plywood.

Garage door

My garage doors were 2 wooden doors flapping in the wind and letting snow blow inside the garage. I'm in the process of replacing them with SteelCraft Thermodoors. I framed the door opening last Saturday and installed the railings / door panels. This afternoon I'll try to get the jack-shaft and the manual hoist attached.


Miscellaneous pictures

Some miscellaneous pictures of what's being installed. Thermostatic valve, circulation pump, X-300 DAQ, etc.

 

[huffdawg]

I hope you insulated your pipe good or you'll be digging it all back up.

 

[maple1]

I hope you insulated your pipe good or you'll be digging it all back up.

Looks like thermo pex or logstor or the like, so he should be good.

 

[JTWALL]

Circulator pump located on boiler output... is that okay? Also, more room to get access to turbulators would be nice. I have a pipe similar to this and it is a pain to get to one vane.

 

[huffdawg]

Most put the boiler circ. pump on the inlet side of the boiler after the boiler protection as far as I know .

Here is a good link:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-place-for-circulator-pump.51706/#post-648307

 

[JTWALL]

Most put the boiler circ. pump on the inlet side of the boiler after the boiler protection as far as I know .

Here is a good link:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-place-for-circulator-pump.51706/#post-648307

That is what I thought...mine is on the inlet. Seems like less wear/tear on pump also not seeing the higher temps.
Regards,
JT

 

[ewdudley]

Circulator pump located on boiler output... is that okay? Also, more room to get access to turbulators would be nice. I have a pipe similar to this and it is a pain to get to one vane.

The only real difference between having the boiler-storage loop circulator on the supply vs. the return is that the water will be hotter. Modern cirulators spec maximum fluid temperatures up over 220 degF, so if you're pumping 190 degF water vs. 140 degF I can't see any reason for concern.

As regards "pumping away from the PONPC", that is a separate issue and would normally not be of any concern in a boiler-storage loop situation. Except under extraordinary circumstances the pressure delta across the circulator in a boiler-storage loop could never cause the cavitation problems, so when they trot out that bogeyman just run the numbers for your loop and see for yourself if there is anything to worry about.

 

[cityboy172]

Nice. That's a nice looking area you have back there.

 

[Jayf19]

I hope you insulated your pipe good or you'll be digging it all back up.

Looks like thermo pex or logstor or the like, so he should be good.

Correct, it is a commercial pre-insulated pipe.

Circulator pump located on boiler output... is that okay? Also, more room to get access to turbulators would be nice. I have a pipe similar to this and it is a pain to get to one vane.

I'll have to look into this. This is part of the reason why I decided to post the installation process of my boiler. I want to make sure my components are placed adequately and logically inside my system.

Nice. That's a nice looking area you have back there.

Thanks, it's a pretty secluded area, we have about 150 acres of semi open land in the backyard.

 

[Jayf19]

Weekend update

I managed to lift the tanks, remove the bricks, replace them with a 1 1/2" polyisocyanurate insulation board and the 3/4" treated plywood. I also got to finish the insulation on the garage door. Lastly, I convinced my plumber to go with a closed installation; I presented him with one the of the diagrams proposed by Tarm. I'm now waiting on the price for the expansion tank(s) which must be sized to work under 15 psi to meet provincial regulations.

 

[stee6043]

Make sure you install a handful of air vents. Especially at your output line. The top of your tanks would make sense too.

I'd personally move the circ to the return side simply to extend it's life. But this may or may not be worth the work.

Are your tanks ASME stamped? If not, I'm not sure why you'd worry about provincial guidelines for pressure/expansion requirements. The lack of stamped tanks would likely be a non-starter to begin with.

 

[stee6043]

And for what it's worth keeping a system with 1,400 gallons of storage below 15psi is going to take a boat load of expansion acceptance capacity. Unless you start a 2psi (which presents it's own set of problems) you're going to be hurting for headroom on pressure.

 

[Jayf19]

Make sure you install a handful of air vents. Especially at your output line. The top of your tanks would make sense too.

I'd personally move the circ to the return side simply to extend it's life. But this may or may not be worth the work.

Are your tanks ASME stamped? If not, I'm not sure why you'd worry about provincial guidelines for pressure/expansion requirements. The lack of stamped tanks would likely be a non-starter to begin with.

I will most likely change the circ to the return side, since nothing has been permanently installed, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

The tanks are not ASME stamped; which is why I'm aiming to keep it working below 15 psi. Also, I will probably end up using only the 2x500 gallons as the different sizing of tanks seems to be giving more problems or potential ones than it brings any good.

As for my headroom, there shouldn't be much problem since I don't have anything that will be plumb higher than the storage.

What I was thinking was going for 2xSX110V or 2xSX160V, and changing the precharge to around 8 PSI.

Right now though, I'm just waiting to see what my installer will come up with.

 

[stee6043]

I will most likely change the circ to the return side, since nothing has been permanently installed, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

The tanks are not ASME stamped; which is why I'm aiming to keep it working below 15 psi. Also, I will probably end up using only the 2x500 gallons as the different sizing of tanks seems to be giving more problems or potential ones than it brings any good.

As for my headroom, there shouldn't be much problem since I don't have anything that will be plumb higher than the storage.

What I was thinking was going for 2xSX110V or 2xSX160V, and changing the precharge to around 8 PSI.

Right now though, I'm just waiting to see what my installer will come up with.

I have 1,000 gallons of storage. My static (cold) system pressure is around 12psi. I have two 66 gallon expansion tanks in my system and I will routinely run up above 25 psi when my tanks push 180. I have stacked 500's.

So your local code says you can do pressurized storage without ASME so long as you keep it below 15psi? That's fantastic.

 

[Jayf19]

I have 1,000 gallons of storage. My static (cold) system pressure is around 12psi. I have two 66 gallon expansion tanks in my system and I will routinely run up above 25 psi when my tanks push 180. I have stacked 500's.

So your local code says you can do pressurized storage without ASME so long as you keep it below 15psi? That's fantastic.

Good to know, I should aim for the SX160V, in that case!

There isn't a local code where I live, since I'm in an unorganized territory. According to provincial regulation though, under 15 PSI pressure vessels and systems are not regulated.

 

[huffdawg]

You could use the 400 gal. Tank as a buffer tank . If you stil want the capacity

 

[Jayf19]

You could use the 400 gal. Tank as a buffer tank . If you stil want the capacity

I'm afraid that my confuse my installer even more and I doubt I'd have enough space to squeeze in the expansion tank in there...

 

[stee6043]

Save a bunch of money and use the 400 tank for expansion.

 

[cityboy172]

Save a bunch of money and use the 400 tank for expansion.

That's what I did. I had a 250 tank around, hung it in the rafters, out of the way so I didn't loose any floor space.

 

[Jayf19]

Didn't get a chance to see my plumber yet, but here is the diagram I intend to show him (depending on whether I keep the current tank for expansion or not).

I'm not sure if the circulation pump should be before or after the storage return, or if it doesn't make a difference.

I'm also not sure if the circulation pump location makes a difference if the piping indoors is with zone valves or witch individual circulation pumps (I will have a air handler, 1 radiator and a sidearm water heater installed indoors).

And I have yet to decide on the garage heater location, chances are I'll be putting an automatic backup generator, which would remove the need for a "heat protection" design. I'm also afraid that, since it'll be the garage heater and the garage insulation is subpar, a heat protection design / garage heater might hog a lot of the heating supply before it reaches the storage or the house. If that's the case, I may zone it after the supply tanks.

 

[maple1]

Boiler circ needs to be on other side of thermostatic valve so it can pull thru both legs of it.

Boiler bypass line should not go through garage heater.

Not sure what that bypass thing is top right?

Also your expansion needs to tie in on the suction side of your circ pump.

 

[Jayf19]

Boiler circ needs to be on other side of thermostatic valve so it can pull thru both legs of it.

Boiler bypass line should not go through garage heater.

Not sure what that bypass thing is top right?

Also your expansion needs to tie in on the suction side of your circ pump.

Thanks for the details. I modified what you suggested me in the following graph.

1. Moved circulator within the thermostatic loop.

2. Added a loop for the safety / garage heater.

3. The bypass thing is to have the ability to directly heat the house, if need be, rather than storing the heat. IE : If I were to come back from vacation and storage would be cold - prioritize house, then store.

4. Moved the expansion after the storage return, where the circulator was in my first diagram.

 

[maple1]

Exactly what kind of 'device' were you thinking about for the bypass thing? Not sure I've seen something quite like that.

If you were to forget about that part, and just make sure your zones pull from the top of your tanks like I think you have them drawn, there won't be much of a delay (relatively speaking) on getting heat to your house on a cold start up - the hot water will go across the top of the tanks from the boiler in to supply out. Might be a bit of a lag compared to a direct line between boiler & zones, but not much. Or, just T in your zone supply to the same bungs that your boiler outlet is hitting the tanks through. i.e. run direct to your zones were you have 'bypass device' labelled, and do away with that second set of bungs you have planned to send to your zones from.

 

[Jayf19]

Am I missing a pump in my proposed diagram? I have a boiler circulation within the thermostatic vale, but should I have one for the storage loop without going through the boiler?