Fisher mama bear 6inch damper

coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,179
NE PA
I did have the home inspected by a home inspector who also inspected the stove and set up. The previous owners gave me all the paperwork of installation which was done by a professional, the house was built 10 years ago and the woodstove was put in right after. They used it every winter, had it cleaned every winter and never had any issues. I’m not saying it ran as efficiently as it could, but no problems none the less. I can send some pictures of the outside of the house. I believe it’s all triple insulated pipe outside. Im used to a woodstove to heat up the huntin shack, not my house. I cleaned it before the winter and have been using it. If I run it for day or two my house heats easily into the mid 70’s. I didn’t realize how much there was to consider. Can you tell me a little bit more about “when it’s smoking” and a good running temp for it. It is possible he modified the system after the install. I appreciate your time, I’m sure your asked these questions constantly
Since smoke particles sticking to the flue walls are what form creosote, during the coaling stage you can go below the critical 250* flue temperature. Exterior chimneys cool much more than Interior, or “through the roof” straight up chimneys. So you have to allow more heat out of the stove for them. The increase in size of the connector elbow to 8 inch is a sign you probably have a 8 inch chimney outside, but you would need to remove the clean out cap if there is one outside to measure the flue size if you don’t know what it is. Pipe inside normally stays 6 inch for a 6 inch chimney.

When the flue is hot enough, water vapor from combustion is expelled from the top harmlessly. When allowed to cool, or not burning hard enough to generate the heat necessary to stay above condensing point, the smoke particles stick to the wet flue walls. So I use the term “when smoke is present”.

Since it is a guess how much cooling you have at the top of chimney, you can only burn hot and check creosote formation frequently. To get a good idea of the temperature needed at the bottom, an IR thermometer can be used on the inside of flue wall about a foot down to get a temperature reading and compare to the temperature of pipe wall at bottom so you know how much cooling you have in your particular system. An IR thermometer will also show you the drastic temperature difference from the 6 inch coming out of stove to the 8 inch pipe connecting to chimney. You just have to run with the air open more than you would with the correct size chimney, extending burn time and radiating more heat into the building than letting it up the stack.
 
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coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,179
NE PA
@clancey is a friend of mine.
She hijacked this thread with a stove to find.

From Coal Bears and pipe caps, to knob and tube,
this gal can type, and post pictures too!

We'll heat your porch safely, we really do care,
as your new Fisher Stove pollutes the air.

Welcome aboard Clancey!
 
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clancey

Feeling the Heat
Feb 26, 2021
415
Colorado
Ha Ha Tyelliott is gong to get upset with me talking about "tubes" and old "houses" are his wonderful thread with pictures of babies and blankets around them.. You know that baby coal stove looks something like my Morso 1410 Squirrel coming and it is back ordered right now so I am waiting for it to come in so that I can set it up and now designing my back porch for its crib. But if I had a larger house and needed some good heat I would be on the lookout for one those maybe one of those cook stoves . Gosh I can see a family of Bob and Carol sitting around that old stove. Of course we know the newer ones are all updated and more efficient and easy especially those one with the automatic everything and running by electricity but I know if everything goes off these stoves have saved lives in the old days..Wonderful trip and thank you for the space on your thread to have a adventure of these stoves...Now you old coaly I'm Mrs Clancey to you-lol lol ---really enjoyed thank you so much....I love that baby....and that coal stove sure does look like mine that is coming....Thanks again
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
23,986
central pa
Ha Ha Tyelliott is gong to get upset with me talking about "tubes" and old "houses" are his wonderful thread with pictures of babies and blankets around them.. You know that baby coal stove looks something like my Morso 1410 Squirrel coming and it is back ordered right now so I am waiting for it to come in so that I can set it up and now designing my back porch for its crib. But if I had a larger house and needed some good heat I would be on the lookout for one those maybe one of those cook stoves . Gosh I can see a family of Bob and Carol sitting around that old stove. Of course we know the newer ones are all updated and more efficient and easy especially those one with the automatic everything and running by electricity but I know if everything goes off these stoves have saved lives in the old days..Wonderful trip and thank you for the space on your thread to have a adventure of these stoves...Now you old coaly I'm Mrs Clancey to you-lol lol ---really enjoyed thank you so much....I love that baby....and that coal stove sure does look like mine that is coming....Thanks again
There really is only one stove with any electronic controls and it has manual over rides.

Coal bears are not small stoves at all either they are pretty big and extremely heavy.
 

john26

Feeling the Heat
Oct 27, 2008
492
Wildwood MO
No these tubes as I called them were like "cast iron water pipe looking things with the cloth electrical wire inside of them and they were sticking up all over the attic and what I did to make the attic for storage was had all the loose insulation vacuumed and (Bob) the electrician had to cut all these things out and lay new wiring--what a mess that is but I put a window up there as well and have plenty of extra storage with steps going up--somewhat steeper steps because of the chimney in the way but I have a handrail made out of pipe rack and it works good but I only can stand in the middle of the attic but have floor fiberboard and more fiberboard on the sides that hold blanket insulation. plus I have electricity up there too and a single bed in case I need it for a emergency like my brother visiting me--shove him up there--lol..There is like two eaves or something that extend out and has more headroom to stand. That's why I put that window up there with a emergency button on those security bars that flare open the whole side like a emergency exit ..With time we got too old to get up there but its neat for storage and made my electrician electrical work so much easier as other jobs like venting for plumbing and venting for stoves and the rest.. This house has been a trip but a learning experience as well and the wood to this house especially the roofing is so hard one can hardly take a nail out and roofing work is a full day of labor just trying to get the nails out and the roofer was cursing and I asked him if I had to lay some 4x8 plywood over the roof to put the shingles on and he looked at me and said "This wood from those days is such a quality I cannot even take nails out to get the shingle off"--we laughed.. This has been a trip...clancey
Sorry to get back on the "Tubes" but did the house originally have gas lighting? Gas lighting was used as late as the 1930's in parts of the country the metal piping was sometimes reused to pull in electrical wiring. Its hard to believe but I talked to old timers that did that while working for a licensed electrical contractor.
 
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clancey

Feeling the Heat
Feb 26, 2021
415
Colorado
I think you might be on to something because these pipes they look just like my natural gas piping now without the paint on them.. Maybe that is the answer...and this house has always been "not normal". it like when I said to the person that sold me the house and asked if the basement was a coal bin or something because he had it painted with white paint I guess to try to "pretty it up" or something and he said "No" it never had coal.. cause I was trying to figure out why that main door to the basement was so low looking and the steps kind of smallest--then the trap door encasing in the kitchen on the floor with no trap door on it--weird I thought and that basement is only under the kitchen and it looks like a world war two bunker---thick concrete all around the small room with my hot water heater and boiler heat for the house..--vents in the chimney and vents in the wall from the kitchen that heated all four rooms what a trip this house has been and then we have the original porch with floors that slightly slanted down to ground level and I put my washer on that and the washer walked so I put a rug under it and it caught on fire--thank God I was there.. A learning experience and this house has been nothing but a learning experience and now my new wood stove that I am waiting for and I can't wait to see it...(back ordered until May or June).
Its not me Tyelliott that's taking up your nice thread blame the "oldsters" on here for they keep talking about "tubes"---not me--I am innocent...lol But I will tell you the "experts" are coming to help you with your questions and they are "experts? ...So jump in and ask away..But I do love those bear stoves and maybe they had one in this house at one time--just maybe,,,thanks: Mrs clancey..
 

Tyelliott

New Member
Mar 9, 2021
6
Warren county
Since smoke particles sticking to the flue walls are what form creosote, during the coaling stage you can go below the critical 250* flue temperature. Exterior chimneys cool much more than Interior, or “through the roof” straight up chimneys. So you have to allow more heat out of the stove for them. The increase in size of the connector elbow to 8 inch is a sign you probably have a 8 inch chimney outside, but you would need to remove the clean out cap if there is one outside to measure the flue size if you don’t know what it is. Pipe inside normally stays 6 inch for a 6 inch chimney.

When the flue is hot enough, water vapor from combustion is expelled from the top harmlessly. When allowed to cool, or not burning hard enough to generate the heat necessary to stay above condensing point, the smoke particles stick to the wet flue walls. So I use the term “when smoke is present”.

Since it is a guess how much cooling you have at the top of chimney, you can only burn hot and check creosote formation frequently. To get a good idea of the temperature needed at the bottom, an IR thermometer can be used on the inside of flue wall about a foot down to get a temperature reading and compare to the temperature of pipe wall at bottom so you know how much cooling you have in your particular system. An IR thermometer will also show you the drastic temperature difference from the 6 inch coming out of stove to the 8 inch pipe connecting to chimney. You just have to run with the air open more than you would with the correct size chimney, extending burn time and radiating more heat into the building than letting it up the stack.
Awesome, I really appreciate the help. In your opinion, what do I need to run it most efficiently and safely. At the end of the day I want it to heat my home and not burn it down haha. I’ll attach pictures of the outside. Thanks again for getting back to me, this forum is great, tons of information
 

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coaly

Fisher Moderator
Staff member
Dec 22, 2007
4,179
NE PA
Put the thermometer on the upper end of the 8 inch elbow inside. Keep it above 250*, preferably 300 while smoke is present. That is your minimum burn. Opening intake air damper more will give you more heat, at the cost of greater loss up the stack as well.
You won't need a pipe damper for an over drafting chimney. Control the fire with just the air intake dampers.

If you had a double door stove, burning with doors open and a screen in place you would need the pipe damper since it becomes you're only control with doors open. You then close a pipe damper slowly until smoke starts to roll in at top. Open slightly, to allow smoke to evacuate and that is your setting to slow the draft as much as possible to slow the fire and retain as much heat as possible, which isn't much. They are not considered radiant heaters in Fireplace Mode with doors open.
 
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Dec 14, 2020
156
Lisburn, PA
Some observations. Your basement appears to be cast in place concrete walls with a large portion above grade. Typical construction. The insulation appears to be a R-10 poly scrim vinyl which is attached with pins to the concrete. The wall behind the stove appears to have vertical framing, probably wood. Not many metal studs used in residential. The drywall has tile attached. There are others on Hearth that can address the distance required from the stove to this type of wall construction. The tile will get hot and transfer heat thru the drywall to the studs. If the stud cavity is insulated, the studs can become overheated.
The reason I'm making these observations, is heat loss. If you increase the R value of your basement walls you will have more heat to go up to living area. The wall behind the stove would be the place to start. The back of the stove and the stove pipe will radiate heat thru that wall and to the outside.
So even if the existing setup is "according to code" you can reduce heat loss and reflect more heat off the wall.
The transition of 6" to 8" pipe does not seem like something a professional with knowledge of wood stoves would install. The pipe on the outside looks to be insulated 6" inside, 8" outside diameter. I'm basing this on the fake brick lines on the concrete wall. The cleanout at the bottom is corroded which tells me condensation is forming in there. It is worth the time to open this up and inspect.
If the outside pipe is 6" inside, I would take the inside pipe apart and find out what pipe goes thru the wall to the outside T. You may be able to change to 6".
From the pictures I can't tell if the top of the chimney is the required horizontal distance from the roof. And I would inspect the straps attached to the wood siding and face board. You don't want the pipe to blow off the side of the house.
 

Tyelliott

New Member
Mar 9, 2021
6
Warren county
Put the thermometer on the upper end of the 8 inch elbow inside. Keep it above 250*, preferably 300 while smoke is present. That is your minimum burn. Opening intake air damper more will give you more heat, at the cost of greater loss up the stack as well.
You won't need a pipe damper for an over drafting chimney. Control the fire with just the air intake dampers.

If you had a double door stove, burning with doors open and a screen in place you would need the pipe damper since it becomes you're only control with doors open. You then close a pipe damper slowly until smoke starts to roll in at top. Open slightly, to allow smoke to evacuate and that is your setting to slow the draft as much as possible to slow the fire and retain as much heat as possible, which isn't much. They are not considered radiant heaters in Fireplace Mode with doors open.
@coaly
To be honest, I haven’t ran the stove since the last message. You got me way to nervous. I had zero issues prior to reaching out. I’m grateful for the info, but dang it had me scratching my head wondering if I have been putting my new home at risk. I’m sure I could update the T joint that’s starting to go, but everything seems structurally sound. The tile is warm at best when the stove is running. I think that I was burning correctly, but the overload of info really made me nervous. I genuinely appreciate it all. I just thought an update to close this thread out would be good. Thanks again