Follow up on my stinky flu/fireplace

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the one looking down the flue showing the shiny black glaze.


That is completely false.


I dont know without seeing it and trying chains.


It would be possible but it would take a fair investment to get the required equipment and then the chains may not even work. As far as the chemicals go I dont know if any of the good ones are available to non pros


no problem at all I come here to help people and you are not being annoying at all you atleast listen to the advice given. The only people who bother me are the ones that ask questions and then disregard the answers given by those who know more about it than them.


not like new no but you should see some orange and there should be no shiny black buildup.


Sorry for the delay between messages. We're battling some family illnesses during all this, and things keep popping up delaying my responses.

I will try to get some additional pics.

I just remembered that one of the companies actually never gave me an opinion, originally, regarding the condition of the chimney. He came out specifically to measure the firebox for either an airtight door or an insert, and I just never thought to ask him because the others had been in agreement that I don't need it cleaned. Anyway, I just looked back at the communications with this guy, and he stated a couple times that he won't do the insert unless he also re-cleans the flue, smoke shelf, and firebox. He mentions specifically that they have found that other sweeps in the area almost never give flues a full clean and have much lower standards than he has seen elsewhere.

Still, even this isn't enough to explain why I would get 100% okays from the other guys and "this is stage three, dangerous build up" from you guys. I'll take pics and try to collect samples.

Thanks to everyone for bearing with me.
 
Still, even this isn't enough to explain why I would get 100% okays from the other guys and "this is stage three, dangerous build up" from you guys
Because they are lazy hacks that don't want to spend the time and energy to do it right. I am sorry I am a pro and I take my job very seriously and it really bothers me when I hear about "pros" pulling crap like this it hurts the credibility of the rest of us in the industry.
 
Because they are lazy hacks that don't want to spend the time and energy to do it right. I am sorry I am a pro and I take my job very seriously and it really bothers me when I hear about "pros" pulling crap like this it hurts the credibility of the rest of us in the industry.
This is interesting. It seems much more common in a service industry like this, or auto repair, etc, to try to up-sell, or otherwise sell you services that are not necessary if they are going to be shady. I don't think I've had an experience like this where they try to discourage a paying service. That's why I find this situation so difficult to understand with several sweeps involved.
 
Because they are lazy hacks that don't want to spend the time and energy to do it right. I am sorry I am a pro and I take my job very seriously and it really bothers me when I hear about "pros" pulling crap like this it hurts the credibility of the rest of us in the industry.
Shooting for mediocrity seems to be a trend ... "good enough" and go. bholler, you are likely one of a rare and dying breed that has the integrity to stand by your work. From the sounds of the OPs review of posts with installer, the installer stands with you on the integrity part. The installer is also looking to minimize any return calls and future liability (as it then becomes less profitable) so do it right in cleaning the chimney in the first place.

StinkyFlueStu ... hopefully the family health issues resolve positively. What kind of price difference in cleaning between the insert installer and other sweeps? Is that part of the breakdown in his quote? Sometimes going "cheap" ends up costing you more in the long run. Have you looked up reviews on any of the parties involved?

Edit: There was only one company with reviews on google... Where exactly are you located in Missouri?
 
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Shooting for mediocrity seems to be a trend ... "good enough" and go. bholler, you are likely one of a rare and dying breed that has the integrity to stand by your work. From the sounds of the OPs review of posts with installer, the installer stands with you on the integrity part. The installer is also looking to minimize any return calls and future liability (as it then becomes less profitable) so do it right in cleaning the chimney in the first place.

StinkyFlueStu ... hopefully the family health issues resolve positively. What kind of price difference in cleaning between the insert installer and other sweeps? Is that part of the breakdown in his quote? Sometimes going "cheap" ends up costing you more in the long run. Have you looked up reviews on any of the parties involved?

Edit: There was only one company with reviews on google... Where exactly are you located in Missouri?


I didn't get an insert quoted by all the different companies. However, the quotes that I did get are fairly equal across the board. I am not going with the lowest bid. The lowest bid offered to put in an insert that he had pulled out of another customer's house. The insert was rusted and its catalytic (that's what he told me the weird manifold at the top was) was shredded, looked like by a sawzall? He also didn't want to put in a liner...

I've found that it's very hard to find online reviews of service companies in my area. I think it's a combination of older folks, rural folks, etc. who just don't think about going online to post reviews.

The company I'm planning to go with is from a larger town nearby. It does have 5 star reviews on several websites, and it is A+ accredited by the BBB. I know that's not always a guarantee of anything, but it's a start. I also like that they are a largish company compared to most of the others being just a few guys who are usually buddies and or family.

I'm not super comfortable posting my exact location. Can you tell me what that would change? I could PM maybe?
 
Just noticed a few clusters of companies in the larger centers and wondered where you were in relation ... really doesn't change anything unless someone from the area has had a good experience with a specific company. Are you checking with companies in bordering states if you are near state lines?
 
Sorry I am coming to this question so late, but have you tried closing off the fresh air intake with plastic (the dryer vent looking thing) and installing the chimney balloon into the flue at the same time? It could be that the balloon is shutting off the chimney draft. However, when you close that off, the homes negative pressure starts dragging in extra hard through the fresh air intake and thus taking the foul firebox air into the house. Once you have them both closed off, check your work by lighting a smoke pencil or incense stick in the firebox and see if the smoke lingers or gets blown somewhere.

Once you have both ports sealed, deodorize the firebox. Take a couple of boxes of baking soda and sprinkle it all over the floor, walls, ceiling, and everything in the firebox that you can get it to stick to. Let that sit for over a week before you vacuum it out. If this works, it wont fix your creosote problem in the flue, but it might give you a rest from the smell for the summer anyway.

I had a house in Rockford that was like this. I closed off the flue and the ash pit drug in air. If I closed the ash pit the flue drug in air. I closed off both and the problem went away within an hour.
 
Hi! Back in April, I started a thread about my stinky flue. I got some very helpful people responding, but it became clear that I had left some info out, plus pics were requested. I meant to just update that thread, but I got sidelined due to multiple family emergencies. So, here's a brand new thread, where I'm hoping the experts here can help me finally resolve this.

Feel free to read the original thread for details, here. Otherwise, here's a brief summary. We bought the house about a year ago. At the time we had multiple sweeps inspect the chimney. We had a crack in the mortar cap sealed, sealant sprayed on the brick, and we removed a gas line that a previous owner had used to put a gas display inside the fireplace. Also, before we ever even burned, we had a radon fan installed under the foundation.

During our first winter of burning, we didn't have much trouble. The wood we bought was wet because we bought it during a storm and it had been stored outside. Winter was wet and cold, so it never really dried off. We'd get some smoke coming in from the fireplace while starting a new fire, but once the fire was hot enough, no trouble. We would then dry off the next few logs next to the fire, and again, no trouble. We also had some smoke come out of the blower vents, but this stopped when we stuffed insulation into the gap between the front edge of the metal firebox liner (one guy called it a "heatilator?") and the front brick wall of the fireplace. Oh, and we had some smoke get sucked into the basement during the first burn, because there is a second chimney that goes down to the basement, but the wood stove was removed long before we moved in. We sealed up the holes in the wall and that has never been an issue again. Both chimneys have rain caps.

In January, we stopped burning and had a sweep clean the chimney. He said it was pretty clean to begin with. He looked at our wood, because I was nervous about how wet it was. He said he agreed it was seasoned fine but just got wet from being outside before we bought it.

Throughout January, we occasionally got smell from the fireplace. I tried taping aluminum foil across the entire fireplace door. That helped with the smell, but it made so much noise from getting sucked in and out by the air coming in/out through the drafty damper, that we couldn't stand it. So, I taped aluminum foil across the top of the flue and plugged the bottom with a homemade chimney "balloon" (trash bag stuffed with insulation). I also vacuumed every speck of ash that I could out of the firebox, plus I found a TON of ash/loose gunk in the smoke shelf that the sweep had supposedly "cleaned." No problems with smell again until mid-April.

In mid-February, we had weatherization work done on the house. This included additional attic insulation, caulking the windows, door sweeps, etc., plus a small, always-on exhaust fan in the basement. We still didn't have any problems until a month after this work was done.

Finally, in mid-April, we woke up to the house smelling like "Satan's butt-hole." It was just the thickest, stankiest, nastiest fireplace smell I've ever encountered. We tried all the troubleshooting we found online, but we couldn't get it to change by cracking windows, turning appliances off/on, etc. We called some sweeps.

The first sweep first blamed it all on our flue being too short, causing the prevailing wind to come across our roof and straight down the flu. I pointed out that the flue had been completely sealed with the foil, so he changed his mind and said that he could see water literally trickling down inside of the flu. He also said he could see efflorescence in there. He showed me a picture (attached), but I didn't see any of what he was describing. He also said that mortar chimney caps are absolutely not acceptable and that I would need a steel cap immediately.

The next two sweeps disagreed with almost everything the first guy said. They said that the mortar cap could be replaced if I wanted, but that it looked like the crack had been repaired just fine. They said that there is always some dampness that soaks in through the bricks/tiles, and that I had caused this to build up and compound by sealing both ends of the flu. One recommended either an insert or at least an airtight door, while the other said to just put kitty litter in there to soak up the smell (which didn't help at all). A fourth sweep couldn't come out, but he talked a lot over the phone and basically agreed that I messed up by plugging the flue completely, and he recommended an insert. All the sweeps said that there is no magic bullet, as there's nothing obviously wrong with the chimney, other than my stupid sealing method. Oh, and one guy said the ash dump, which has been plugged with decades of compacted ash since we moved in, needs to be cleaned out and bricked off, but the others said there's no way it could be making any smell.

I also talked to weatherization people, HVAC people, etc. They all agreed that the radon fan and the exhaust fan create such a tiny amount of suction that there's no way they could be responsible for this (plus I know the radon fan was running the entire year before this started). They also said that my house isn't tight enough to warrant an air exchange and that it couldn't help with this. This was told to me after the final inspection and blower door test, so I feel like they must know what they're talking about. This doesn't mean there isn't a draft issue (there obviously is), but I take them at their word that an exchange and/or removing the fans won't fix it. Edit: Also, I tried turning the exhausts off for over a month, and it made no difference at all.

While going through the first thread discussion, I found that if I burned candles in the fireplace, the smell almost completely disappeared (but only while burning). As the days got hotter and more humid (I'm in the Midwest), I would have to burn more and more candles. Finally, the chimney balloon I ordered arrived. It has definitely helped reduce the smell, but the smell is still there. It's worse than when I had candles burning, but still a tiny fraction of what we originally encountered. Edit: I've also noticed that the smell still fluctuates drastically based on the weather. Hotter and more humid days result in a thicker smell that radiates further from the fireplace, while cooler, dryer days result in very little odor.

So, now my plan is to either get an insert+SS liner, or to get a Lyemance top-damper, airtight fireplace door, and gas loglighter.

I'm leaning toward the insert+liner. However, I worry that because we still never identified the one "thing" that is wrong with the flu, I'll spend thousands of dollars on a bunch of work but still end up having the same problem.

What can I do further to ensure that I've identified the problem and that an insert/liner will fix it?

Would you recommend the airtight door instead of the insert? Why?

If I go with an insert and liner, what details do I need to pay attention to in order to make sure all the work is done and all the accessories added to ensure a stink-free home?

What other information do you need from me to help resolve this?



I can't tell you how desperate we are to just get this fixed, and I'm ever so grateful for any help to get it fixed the RIGHT WAY. Thanks!

Oh, and I tried uploading a "media album" with descriptions of my pics, but it said that a moderator had to approve it before I could add it to this thread. So, I've attached the pics directly for now.

EDIT: I forgot to make this point: in the first thread, the last few comments are from people saying they think I'm dealing with an issue of negative pressure and moisture in the flu.

I think there's no denying this, based on the symptoms. I didn't make this thread because I discount/disbelieve/don't value their input. I made this thread because I'm hoping that, with the pics and additional info I've given, we might be able to more accurately identify the causes of these issues and ensure that whatever work I have done will actually make a difference.

So, I guess what I mean is, I'm hoping here to fine tune and build upon the great advice already given. I'm not trying to throw away what others already said and start over.


Is your problem located in your basement? They are humidity traps and will smell after a while. I would recommend a standalone dehumidifer (around $200). I had a smelly basement and after running one it cleared the smell right up.
 
Sorry I am coming to this question so late, but have you tried closing off the fresh air intake with plastic (the dryer vent looking thing) and installing the chimney balloon into the flue at the same time? It could be that the balloon is shutting off the chimney draft. However, when you close that off, the homes negative pressure starts dragging in extra hard through the fresh air intake and thus taking the foul firebox air into the house. Once you have them both closed off, check your work by lighting a smoke pencil or incense stick in the firebox and see if the smoke lingers or gets blown somewhere.

Once you have both ports sealed, deodorize the firebox. Take a couple of boxes of baking soda and sprinkle it all over the floor, walls, ceiling, and everything in the firebox that you can get it to stick to. Let that sit for over a week before you vacuum it out. If this works, it wont fix your creosote problem in the flue, but it might give you a rest from the smell for the summer anyway.

I had a house in Rockford that was like this. I closed off the flue and the ash pit drug in air. If I closed the ash pit the flue drug in air. I closed off both and the problem went away within an hour.

I have the air intake stuffed with insulation down the pipe and aluminum foil in front of that. The weatherization guys used a smoke gun and confirmed no air coming from ash dump or air intake, and that was with the door blower tester still running.

I did discover that they installed the balloon incorrectly, and it loses enough air to let stink in every 12 hours or so. I'm replacing it with a new one while shopping for an insert. And yes, I'm still planning to get the pics/sample that were requested. Things are just crazy here. :(
 
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Is your problem located in your basement? They are humidity traps and will smell after a while. I would recommend a standalone dehumidifer (around $200). I had a smelly basement and after running one it cleared the smell right up.

No, this is all on the main level. However, since there is clearly a humidity issue, I considered running my dehumidifer inside the firebox. I didn't, because I decided that would only suck more nastiness down the flue. Right?
 
If the ash pit and the intake passed a smoke pencil test with a blower door on at -50 Pascal...then they are sealed up pretty tight. That eliminates those portals anyway.

You do need to replace the balloon though if it is going soft after only 12 hours, it has a pretty nasty hole in it. Since the installers put it in wrong, just call the supplier and ask for a warranty replacement. Or you could try a wool Flueblocker instead, if the balloon isn't robust enough for the application. The trick is the wool tends to breath a bit, so it might not seal quite as tight as a balloon. There is give and take on either route.
 
If the ash pit and the intake passed a smoke pencil test with a blower door on at -50 Pascal...then they are sealed up pretty tight. That eliminates those portals anyway.

You do need to replace the balloon though if it is going soft after only 12 hours, it has a pretty nasty hole in it. Since the installers put it in wrong, just call the supplier and ask for a warranty replacement. Or you could try a wool Flueblocker instead, if the balloon isn't robust enough for the application. The trick is the wool tends to breath a bit, so it might not seal quite as tight as a balloon. There is give and take on either route.

I am sorry but the balloon is just a band-aid that is covering up the real issues which are a combination of a dirty flue possible moisture infiltration and a negative pressure situation. Fix the real problems don't just cover them up.
 
I am sorry but the balloon is just a band-aid that is covering up the real issues which are a combination of a dirty flue possible moisture infiltration and a negative pressure situation. Fix the real problems don't just cover them up.

I know the balloon is just a band aid. It was never meant to be more than that. Right now we're headed down the path of a SS liner with a block plate and an insert. We're probably going to get the Regency CI2600, although we're also considering the Napoleon EPI3C because of its huge window.

It's been raining here for weeks, but it looks like it's finally stopped, so I hope to get up and take those pics once the roof is dry.
 
Also look at the Hearthstone Clydesdale for a big window view in an insert.
 
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