General truck talk

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
Mod note: Posts moved to General Truck Talk from EV thread

Ill be holding back as most of these things depreciate rapidly. I dont think ill ever buy a Brand new vehicle again. Ill jump in after the first few yrs of beta testing and free falling depreciation are up. That is if the Corona virus dont get me.:p
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,480
Downeast Maine
Ill be holding back as most of these things depreciate rapidly. I dont think ill ever buy a Brand new vehicle again. Ill jump in after the first few yrs of beta testing and free falling depreciation are up. That is if the Corona virus dont get me.:p
Agreed, I'm over buying new. I haven't since 2009.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
Agreed, I'm over buying new. I haven't since 2009.
And then theres the A=hole that sideswiped my almost new GMC hit and run style ,in the parking lot last month. Sure glad i didnt shell out for new as it will get creamed anyway.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,480
Downeast Maine
And then theres the A=hole that sideswiped my almost new GMC hit and run style ,in the parking lot last month. Sure glad i didnt shell out for new as it will get creamed anyway.
Yeah, nothing lasts especially when you are using it hard.
 

P51mustang

Burning Hunk
Jan 7, 2014
135
Upstate, NY
GM and I think Chysler used to offer hybrid 1/2 ton trucks.

You're right, they have for a few years now. However, they were significantly overpriced with the additional technology needed and they didn't raise mileage that much. The soon to arrive all electric Ford F-150 and the newest hybrid Dodge Ram now available are far more advanced technologically as compared to what I would guess where first generation hybrid pick-ups.

For instance the Dodge Ram gets around 22-24 MPG street driving and even more highway...At a price of course, but it's far better than the early hybrid pick-up which only slightly improved mileage.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,480
Downeast Maine
You're right, they have for a few years now. However, they were significantly overpriced with the additional technology needed and they didn't raise mileage that much. The soon to arrive all electric Ford F-150 and the newest hybrid Dodge Ram now available are far more advanced technologically as compared to what I would guess where first generation hybrid pick-ups.

For instance the Dodge Ram gets around 22-24 MPG street driving and even more highway...At a price of course, but it's far better than the early hybrid pick-up which only slightly improved mileage.
Hey, 1/2 tons are finally catching up with manual trans diesel trucks! I average 22-26 in mixed driving in my Dually ram.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
GM and I think Chysler used to offer hybrid 1/2 ton trucks.
When you run the numbers they dont save much .You have to go right to all electric to get great MPg equiv numbers although they will be grossly overpriced as well out of the gate. Best deal out there right now is a good used volt for 10k. As far as pickups, nothing,even the gassers are overpriced.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,480
Downeast Maine
When you run the numbers they dont save much .You have to go right to all electric to get great MPg equiv numbers although they will be grossly overpriced as well out of the gate. Best deal out there right now is a good used volt for 10k. As far as pickups, nothing,even the gassers are overpriced.
Trucks are outrageous money printers for the auto manufacturers. They will sell all that are made and they cost little to engineer and produce, compared to the profits anyway. I think a Ford F350 can break six figures now.
 
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P51mustang

Burning Hunk
Jan 7, 2014
135
Upstate, NY
I couldn't agree more on the crazy mark up for pick-up trucks...SUV's too. Unfortunately for me, I need a pick-up for a number of reasons.

My current truck I bought brand new in 2009 and am still driving as I refuse to buy a new one at the absurd prices now demanded by auto dealers. It has about 78,000 miles on it and is getting pretty rusty given its been driven all around the upstate, NY area for 10 winters now. The salt required to keep the "North Country" roads clear is insane and eats through any vehicle if driven enough. I think the engine, drive-train, suspension, etc. may hold up for several more years, but the body needs some TLC..

I suspect I'll buy used the next time around or keep my current F-150 as long as possible and only drive sparingly when I absolutely need the truck for what it's built for. Like plowing my drive way, hauling wood pellets from my dealer, trips to the solid waste center, etc...Meanwhile, maybe a used Chevy BOLT cuv for other driving needs. ...The BOLT and a solar array in my back yard would make for a nice retirement gift to myself.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
Friend of mine paid 55k for a simple F150. Its just nuts.
 

P51mustang

Burning Hunk
Jan 7, 2014
135
Upstate, NY
Friend of mine paid 55k for a simple F150. Its just nuts.
I have a basic F-150 4X4 STX model....I think I paid just over 30 maybe 32K back in 2009....I think the same model with the same comparable engine, 4X4, STX package, extra's. etc. today is well over 40K MSRP.....
For basically the same technology as I think the F-150 has only had one complete redesign since 2009. Probably when they began using the aluminum body.....Which was probably the biggest change in the redesign.
 

ABMax24

Feeling the Heat
I have a basic F-150 4X4 STX model....I think I paid just over 30 maybe 32K back in 2009....I think the same model with the same comparable engine, 4X4, STX package, extra's. etc. today is well over 40K MSRP.....
For basically the same technology as I think the F-150 has only had one complete redesign since 2009. Probably when they began using the aluminum body.....Which was probably the biggest change in the redesign.
There is almost nothing the same between an 09 and a 2020 F150. Engines, transmissions, ECM, Body, frame have all changed.

The biggest engine offered in 09 was the 5.4 at 320hp. For 2020 the 2 bottom tier engines the 3.3 V6 at 290hp and 2.7ecoboost at 325hp offer similar power, payload and towing to what an 09 5.4 had.

Not to also mention the new 10 speed transmissions in the 2020's.

You can spend a pile more on a new 2020, but for similar specs as the vehicle you'd replace it's not as much as you think.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
View attachment 258224
General truck talk really should go to another non-EV thread.
Friend of mine paid 55k for a simple F150. Its just nuts.
If that statement is true, that their F150 was "simple" and not including any special and very expensive options, then your friend vastly overpaid. Base price on a Ram 1500 SLT Crew cab 4x4 with the 5.7L Hemi MDS VVT engine and 8HP70 8-speed trans was $39,140, just a few years ago when I bought mine. Heck, optioned with nearly every option they offer, mine had a window sticker price of only $46,725. I'm not sure how you'd ever get to $55k on an F150 without really optioning the heck out of the thing, nor could I understand why anyone would pay that for that truck. I have had rides from friends and coworkers in several newer F150's, and I'm really not impressed with what they're offering today.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
If that statement is true, that their F150 was "simple" and not including any special and very expensive options, then your friend vastly overpaid.
I did his taxes and the paper work was there for the truck ,so yea its true. 55K. He had a trade in so they probably over charged for the new truck to make it look like hes getting a smokin hot deal as dealers often do. What i meant by simple was nothing that would warrent a big add on ,such as a Diesel engine and its a half ton as opposed to an F250 or 350.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Wow... that’s amazing. Ford must have a blind following, for anyone to pay that much for their 1/2 ton. I’m really not impressed by any of the Ford F150’s in which I’ve ridden, in the last five years. I haven’t looked at their pricing, but I suspect your friends $55k truck must’ve not been very simple, likely pretty heavily optioned to get to that price... it’s $8k beyond the window sticker of my truck with lots of the more expensive options added.

I’ve also never understood the concept of brand loyalty, either. Dealership loyalty, yes... but never brand loyalty. Most folks buy a new car so seldomly that the factors that created the pros and cons of a given brand are going to change more quickly than the relevance of their experience. But good for Ford if they’re able to capitalize on that... for now.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Oh... but I forgot to state the point of the post. Yes, you can pay nearly $50k for a 1/2 ton truck, if you want every latest electronic gizmo on it. But you can also buy a 1/2 ton v8 4x4 extended cab truck brand new with most of the basic options for mid $30k’s. Heck, right on the front page of Ford.com it says the F150 CL starts at $28k, and that base-level truck is surely already nicer than any you could’ve bought 30 years ago.

So the point was that, while you CAN spend a lot on a 1/2 ton truck, you really don’t have to.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
I’ve also never understood the concept of brand loyalty, either. Dealership loyalty, yes... but never brand loyalty. Most folks buy a new car so seldomly that the factors that created the pros and cons of a given brand are going to change more quickly than the relevance of their experience. But good for Ford if they’re able to capitalize on that... for now.
My brand loyalty is fading ,no brand is immune to some lemons and no brand gets it right every time.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
to get to that price... it’s $8k beyond the window sticker of my truck with lots of the more expensive options added.
Once they add that 8K to what they tell you they are giving you for your trade in your thinking wow i never thought i could get that much for my trade in ,its not worth that much,your hooked. Thats my theory anyway
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Once they add that 8K to what they tell you they are giving you for your trade in your thinking wow i never thought i could get that much for my trade in ,its not worth that much,your hooked. Thats my theory anyway
Possibly. But sticker price is sticker price... separate from trade-in value. Are you saying he paid $55k on top of trade?!?

I ended up only paying low-$20k’s, by that measure. I took a truck with only 9k miles, off a 2-year lease, and traded in a 12 year old truck in the process. But I was quoting new sticker price, above.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
I didnt look that close , just noticed the final sales price on the pink sheet. I dont have the paper work anymore. That included tax and everything. If i were buying that same truck the deal would look something like
"mid to high 20s for 2 or 3yr old with 15-20 k on the odometer". Or high teens with more miles. Private sales for newer trucks are a good source.
. But someone has to pay the freight for it new .
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Yep, definitely. I was really only responding to the notion that one had to pay that much for a truck today. You can easily pay that much, or much much less, it’s your call.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,632
South Puget Sound, WA
Trucks hold their value well. I got a well-equipped 2013 F150 a few years ago with 46k for $25k. Sold it for $26k last summer, but with new 10 ply tires.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,080
Eastern Central PA
Trucks hold their value well. I got a well-equipped 2013 F150 a few years ago with 46k for $25k. Sold it for $26k last summer, but with new 10 ply tires.
Once they are a few years old they do . Not often you get more than you paid ,good move. Good purchase price. If you had purchased it new you would have taken a bath though. As always.
 

woodnomore

Member
Oct 3, 2019
218
Central MN
I get a new chevy supposed to be every 3 years, I get a deal every time on reupping the lease early. I am very fortunate I am provided a pickup from my employer I do not pay for fuel or even car washes. I have had a ford in the past I prefer chevy's, last two trucks they have not been in the shop for anything other than an oil change.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,441
Northern NH
I am having a real tough time buying into the depreciation and service issues of new vehicles. I know several folks with brand new vehicles that have had to have their truck in the dealer for "reprograming" multiple times. They also have ended up having their "new" trucks towed in when the truck is "bricked". Most of the dealerships are flat rate shops and the service techs just try to unplug old components and plug in new ones without doing any diagnosis. The purchase price and sale has some pretty scary undercurrents these days. Most new vehicles are being financed with long term loans, seven years these days for many and the percentage of borrowers with poor credit has gone up dramatically. More than a few financial analysists expect a credit crash one of these days. Many folks are getting upside down once the typical warranty is over and for many its easier to go further upside down and buy a new truck than deal with out of pocket repairs on their out of warranty trucks.

I have done my own work for years and have come to the conclusion to buy older vehicles with few if any computers. I drive a "throwaway" Ford Fiesta with a manual transmission that owes me nothing. My Unimog was designed for a 250K service life and has no computers whatsoever. I just picked up a 94 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70 , it does have an engine computer but its a diesel with no major emission controls and the basic engine design has been around for 20 plus years. A lot of the running gear is carryover from the FJ40 line but the body is definitely not as primative. Its closer to an early bronco than an FJ40, Its an "orphan" in the US since american buyers didnt want a lightweight Land Cruiser but the rest of the world wanted it (and still does) so it was made simple and the Americans got the big boat FJ60 . Parts are cheap and the one I picked up came from Europe where they appear not to have used road salt. I have to go through it since its high mileage and put up with a metric speedometer but its pretty rare for a Toyota not to go 250K and if I do preventative work to keep the rust at bay I expect I will get several years off it. The big thing for me is insurance is cheap and my registration is cheap as the excise tax in NH is based on age of vehicle. NH excise tax is based on sticker and for many new truck owners its over $1000 a year then tapers down over 5 years which is just about the time that someone trades it in.