General truck talk

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
I am having a real tough time buying into the depreciation and service issues of new vehicles... Most of the dealerships are flat rate shops and the service techs just try to unplug old components and plug in new ones without doing any diagnosis. The purchase price and sale has some pretty scary undercurrents these days. Most new vehicles are being financed...
I remember folks making all of the same claims and complaints in 1994, when your beloved classic FJ was new.

New cars are better than old cars in nearly every way. The few examples you can find of a new car being bricked are matched by literally thousands of old cars requiring repairs in the same time period. It’s impossible to argue, without very few and rare exceptions, that old cars are somehow more reliable or preferable to new.

Financing a new car could be argued either way. Yes, if you get a 7 year loan at 7% then you will pay a cumulative 25% on that loan in interest. However that cost may be less than the difference in maintenance costs between a very old car you can afford for cash, and a new car. The bigger loss is the depreciation, and you can never justify buying a new car, based on finance alone, due to this massive depreciation.
 
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woodnomore

Member
Oct 3, 2019
218
Central MN
I have done my own work for years and have come to the conclusion to buy older vehicles with few if any computers. I drive a "throwaway" Ford Fiesta with a manual transmission that owes me nothing. My Unimog was designed for a 250K service life and has no computers whatsoever. I just picked up a 94 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70 , it does have an engine computer but its a diesel with no major emission controls and the basic engine design has been around for 20 plus years. A lot of the running gear is carryover from the FJ40 line but the body is definitely not as primative. Its closer to an early bronco than an FJ40, Its an "orphan" in the US since american buyers didnt want a lightweight Land Cruiser but the rest of the world wanted it (and still does) so it was made simple and the Americans got the big boat FJ60 . Parts are cheap and the one I picked up came from Europe where they appear not to have used road salt. I have to go through it since its high mileage and put up with a metric speedometer but its pretty rare for a Toyota not to go 250K and if I do preventative work to keep the rust at bay I expect I will get several years off it. The big thing for me is insurance is cheap and my registration is cheap as the excise tax in NH is based on age of vehicle. NH excise tax is based on sticker and for many new truck owners its over $1000 a year then tapers down over 5 years which is just about the time that someone trades it in.
A rusted Toyota? How rare;em
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,442
Northern NH
My personal experience are the benefits of working on my own vehicles over the years seems to lead to different conclusions for me. Most of my painful experiences have been with integrated computer systems in vehicles. Much as I like high pressure common rail fuel injection for better emissions and performance, hard to beat a mechanical injection pump as common rail systems tend to only work with high level of computer control. Sure there may be bugs, but I find that most have usually been figured out and someone has posted a youtube video on a fix or work around.

About the only folks who seem to win out on financing are small business owners. I don't know the details of section 179 but they apparently can get access to some incredibly good tax incentives for buying new expensive vehicles. I am amazed a the various logos I see plastered on large trucks with custom snowmachine and ATV trailers that frequent my area. I didn't know that financial planners need a F350 quad cab or equivalent GM product with a custom trailer to support their businesses but nevertheless I see quite a few.
 
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Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,423
PA
I bought a 2013 Silverado from my neighbor last year. I let vehicles find me. I think I only bought from a dealer twice in my life. Never owned a new vehicle. I keep them 10 years on average so they are 15 or more years old at the end. Thats usually when they break in half on me.

I started taking mine to fluid film now. Maybe I can get one to last 20 years.
 

EODMSgt

Feeling the Heat
Dec 11, 2018
280
White Mountain Region, NH
This is one of those threads where just about everyone has a different opinion based on what vehicles they've owned over the years. I would have to check my list however at last count I've owned over 65 over the years (except for 3 cars, all were 4x4 trucks, Jeeps, or Harleys). New, used, they both have their problems. I just traded in two vehicles on a 2020 Ram 2500 (6.4 gas, not the 6.7 diesel) and put it to work a couple days later, temp tag and all. I still have my old '97 Jeep Cherokee XJ (Sport) for an around town vehicle. The old Jeep needs repairs and tinkering off and on and I'm sure the new truck will have recalls and other issues, however that's just life.
 

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Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,423
PA
The new trucks have electric steering. I dont like that.
 

Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,423
PA
Why not? There are several benifits and not much in the way of downsides.
Both vehicles I have with electric steering have had failures. Luckily they were replaced under soft recalls. My wife and daughters vehicles. You can imagine my displeasure. You know it's not good when you buy a used car with no warranty and the manufacturer replaces the entire steering column and motor at no charge. Just research electric power steering complaints.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,913
central pa
Both vehicles I have with electric steering have had failures. Luckily they were replaced under soft recalls. My wife and daughters vehicles. You can imagine my displeasure. You know it's not good when you buy a used car with no warranty and the manufacturer replaces the entire steering column and motor at no charge. Just research electric power steering complaints.
And are you claiming there were no problems with hydraulic steering when it was first implemented? I have had many failures in hydraulic steering systems
 
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Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,423
PA
And are you claiming there were no problems with hydraulic steering when it was first implemented? I have had many failures in hydraulic steering systems
Failures as in the wheel locks going down the road? When hydraulic steering fails you still have steering when moving. No. I wouldn't want it in a truck for sure. There are torque sensors that input the data into a computer. Then that tells the motor which way to assist and how much. You bang a truck around offroad or get into a tow situation you can damage it easily. You know that when the engine is off that you should never try to turn the wheel with electric steering? It can permanently damage it. My daughters car steering went into a fault and deactivated going down the road. When electric steering fails it is nearly impossible for a woman to steer the car. My wifes car would make right turns suddenly by itself. You can have it all you want.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,913
central pa
Failures as in the wheel locks going down the road? When hydraulic steering fails you still have steering when moving. No. I wouldn't want it in a truck for sure. There are torque sensors that input the data into a computer. Then that tells the motor which way to assist and how much. You bang a truck around offroad or get into a tow situation you can damage it easily. You know that when the engine is off that you should never try to turn the wheel with electric steering? It can permanently damage it. My daughters car steering went into a fault and deactivated going down the road. When electric steering fails it is nearly impossible for a woman to steer the car. My wifes car would make right turns suddenly by itself. You can have it all you want.
I looked it up and read lots of complaints. They all said they just lost power assist. What car did she have?
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
This is one of those threads where just about everyone has a different opinion based on what vehicles they've owned over the years.
A lot of invalid opinions, based on garbage built 20 - 30 years ago, by a bunch of now-retired auto-union workers, designed by a bunch of now-retired engineers, answering to a mass of now-retired management.

So, yeah... everyone’s opinion of Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge, based on their 1992 whatever, is valid. :rolleyes:

Look at the actual statistics, and you will notice one continuous trend: new is better than old. That’s about all you can say, today.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,695
South Puget Sound, WA
I looked it up and read lots of complaints. They all said they just lost power assist. What car did she have?
FWIW, I have had electric steering on the last three vehicles we've owned. No failures in 14 yrs. In our latest car I am not even aware of it being electric.
 

PaulOinMA

Minister of Fire
Oct 20, 2018
699
MA
My wife has a '66 Moke. Wiring diagram is one page. :)

Electrical section in the Bentley service manual for my '11 VW JSW TDI was over 700 pages.

I agree, though. Cars are so much better now. No comparison.
 
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Ludlow

Minister of Fire
Jun 4, 2018
1,423
PA
What car did she have?
One was GM other was Ford. Doesnt matter. Both systems were made by Dorman I believe. I said I didnt want Electric steering in a truck.( In cars it is here to stay and has been for a long time). That is a valid opinion of something new and unproven in an application where a larger vehicle is subjected to more severe service. I know you prefer that the unwitting customer be the beta tester.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,913
central pa
One was GM other was Ford. Doesnt matter. Both systems were made by Dorman I believe. I said I didnt want Electric steering in a truck.( In cars it is here to stay and has been for a long time). That is a valid opinion of something new and unproven in an application where a larger vehicle is subjected to more severe service. I know you prefer that the unwitting customer be the beta tester.
When did I ever say I preferred customer beta test anything? And what company hides the fact that they are using eps making the customer unwitting? Yes there have been a few hiccups with it. But it is a much simpler system than hydraulic steering. Reading the complaints and the couple recalls it really doesn't sound like there have been widespread problems at all.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,695
South Puget Sound, WA
Electric steering will be empoyed in the big rigs. It is part and parcel of autonomous trucks. Personally I like it. I have had to fix more than my fair share of issues with hydraulic leaks and failed pumps in conventional steering.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Listening to you guys, I must be the luckiest person on earth. In 30 years of driving and easily 500,000 miles, I’ve never had a single power steering component failure, either electric or hydraulic, not even on my tractors! If you find yourself putting the likelihood of steering component failures on your list of criteria for shopping automobiles, I’d dare to say you’re shopping the wrong vehicles.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,913
central pa
Listening to you guys, I must be the luckiest person on earth. In 30 years of driving and easily 500,000 miles, I’ve never had a single power steering component failure, either electric or hydraulic, not even on my tractors! If you find yourself putting the likelihood of steering component failures on your list of criteria for shopping automobiles, I’d dare to say you’re shopping the wrong vehicles.
I currently have 1 leaking pump and one leaking cooler. And replaced a pump in the bronco 2 months ago.
 

festerw

Feeling the Heat
Nov 16, 2009
451
Cambridge Springs, PA
22 years driving and I've had 2 power steering issues. One a leaking pump on a nearly 200k Cherokee and the other a cooler leak at 140k on my wife's 11 Durango.

The Durango uses an electric/hydraulic pump for the steering and other than the slight noise turning at idle you'd never know the difference.

I take more of an issue with the spark plugs on the 3.6 requiring the intake to be removed to be changed than the steering.

I still prefer driving the Tundra but it doesn't get crap for fuel mileage compared to the Durango.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,695
South Puget Sound, WA
I've only had power steering issues on used vehicles. None on new vehicles. Bought my first car in 1967. Didn't buy new until 1981 and our second cars/trucks have always been used.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,913
central pa
I don't like the load height on any of the new pickups, even the entry level XL or WT. :p Yup, I'm feeling pretty smug;)
That I agree with completely
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,492
Downeast Maine
We really want the new Jeep Wrangler truck, but we are both out of work now.... It's really frustrating, as things were lined up to be a good year this year for us in terms of income.