Homemade Pizza

[bigealta]

Well, I'm hoping to start the metric poolish today for pizza tomorrow. (Do I make it 36cm?)
Now I have to decide what flour. From what I can see, flour does not have a "W" rating here. We can get 00 flour, but that is more about the fineness of the grind and not about the W factor. I found this explanation, but that doesn't help with locally available flours. Do we go by gluten or protein content? I found this on the interwebs:
Weak less than 180 W (8-9% protein)
Medium between 180-280 W (10-11%)
Strong Higher than 280 W up to 400 (more than 11%)

King Arthur 00 flour has 3gms protein for 30gm portion. Does that make it a 10% gluten?

Farine Perteghella, una storia di famiglia

Siamo professionisti che si vogliono bene e che vogliono bene alle farine che producono

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00 flour that's the one. You can also do 1/2 AP flour and 1/2 00 flour. That's what i usually do.
If you have easy access to 00 flour you are golden.
If you want to mix AP and OO i would use the AP for the poolish and OO for the rest. With only 1 dough ball though i would probably just use all 00.

 

[bigealta]

Bread flour is stronger (higher protien) than AP flour so that would be our strong flour. But for Pizza it's 00. 00 is made for pizza dough. 00 is what Vito uses.

 

[bigealta]

 

[bigealta]

The above is for 1 dough ball. I prefer to make that for 2 dough balls so just double recipe. More practice and the second dough ball can go in fridge for 2-3 days. And the one in the fridge will taste better than the 1st one that is not cold fermented as long.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'll have to pay attention to what kinds of flour my store has available in bulk. I only have whole grain bread flour, white pastry flour, whole rye, and whole spelt. Maybe some white spelt. My pizza dough never turns out right, but I've only tried white AP, whole bread, or high extraction sifted bread flour. It seems that pizza dough is a whole different game than making bread, which I've only sort of figured out.

 

[begreen]

00 flour that's the one. You can also do 1/2 AP flour and 1/2 00 flour. That's what i usually do.
If you have easy access to 00 flour you are golden.
If you want to mix AP and OO i would use the AP for the poolish and OO for the rest. With only 1 dough ball though i would probably just use all 00.

After a deep research dive this morning I found out the 00 is simply the fineness of the grind. In Italy this is the Tipo (type). It can be ground that fine from several different types of wheat with varying protein levels. We tried one 00 last year and it was poor for pizza. Must have had a W of 90 and didn't absorb water well. It would be better for muffins than a pizza. So, 00 is good, for a lighter puffier crust, but only if it has enough protein (gluten). It looks like the protein level should be around 11-12%, though in one of his videos Vito used a Mantoba which is very high protein (W up to 350!). Fortunately, it turns out that our local store has some Anna's 00 flour, from Italy. It has a W factor of 270! This is what I will use today for the poolish. I think this is the same flour used in one of Vito's videos.

The above is for 1 dough ball. I prefer to make that for 2 dough balls so just double recipe. More practice and the second dough ball can go in fridge for 2-3 days. And the one in the fridge will taste better than the 1st one that is not cold fermented as long.

Yes, that's the plan for today.

 

[begreen]

I'll have to pay attention to what kinds of flour my store has available in bulk. I only have whole grain bread flour, white pastry flour, whole rye, and whole spelt. Maybe some white spelt. My pizza dough never turns out right, but I've only tried white AP, whole bread, or high extraction sifted bread flour. It seems that pizza dough is a whole different game than making bread, which I've only sort of figured out.

We're fortunate to have a great grocery store with a large variety of flours, both bulk and packaged. Amazon sells the flour I will be using today. Walmart and Safeway sell it in 1 kilo bags. Or you can buy it direct from Cento.

Anna TIPO 00 Flour 1 KG

Anna Type "00” Flour is an old world, authentic Naples style flour that is smooth, easy to work with, and made with less impurities for more even cooking. Type “00” Flour is tailored to high temperature ovens for pizza making and stretches for a thinner crust. It is finely milled with a soft...

shop.cento.com

Amazon product ASIN B00F4AO7BY

 

[bigealta]

We're fortunate to have a great grocery store with a large variety of flours, both bulk and packaged. Amazon sells the flour I will be using today. Walmart and Safeway sell it in 1 kilo bags. Or you can buy it direct from Cento.

Anna TIPO 00 Flour 1 KG

Anna Type "00” Flour is an old world, authentic Naples style flour that is smooth, easy to work with, and made with less impurities for more even cooking. Type “00” Flour is tailored to high temperature ovens for pizza making and stretches for a thinner crust. It is finely milled with a soft...

shop.cento.com

Amazon product ASIN B00F4AO7BY

Yup that's what I use. Our shoprite sells it for $2.20 a bag on sale and $2.99 regular price. For that price it's not really worth mixing in regular AP flour for only 1 or 2 balls. Now EbSP may want to with his 15-25 ball batches.

 

[bigealta]

After a deep research dive this morning I found out the 00 is simply the fineness of the grind. In Italy this is the Tipo (type). It can be ground that fine from several different types of wheat with varying protein levels. We tried one 00 last year and it was poor for pizza. Must have had a W of 90 and didn't absorb water well. It would be better for muffins than a pizza. So, 00 is good, for a lighter puffier crust, but only if it has enough protein (gluten). It looks like the protein level should be around 11-12%, though in one of his videos Vito used a Mantoba which is very high protein (W up to 350!). Fortunately, it turns out that our local store has some Anna's 00 flour, from Italy. It has a W factor of 270! This is what I will use today for the poolish. I think this is the same flour used in one of Vito's videos.


Yes, that's the plan for today.

Vito actually did not use the manitoba flour, he just used that bag to explain the W. I think it's probably to strong. Remember you are making neopolitan pizza dough, not bread or NY pizza. This dough is pretty delicate.

I usually play the video when making the dough, with a lot of start and stops. It really helps. Be Gentle!

 

[EbS-P]

Vito actually did not use the manitoba flour, he just used that bag to explain the W. I think it's probably to strong. Remember you are making neopolitan pizza dough, not bread or NY pizza. This dough is pretty delicate.

I usually play the video when making the dough, with a lot of start and stops. It really helps. Be Gentle!

You mean there might be a better flour that the 1.15$ a 5# bag I used last time Costco AP flour or sams club bread flour were my next stops. Like everything the last 10% takes the most work. Starting with good flour is probably necessary if going for the Neapolitan route. My 100% whole wheat bread flour crust was about as far from light and delicate as you could get.

Right now it’s figuring out how to cook the quantity we eat as quickly as possible. I’m not there yet. I do like good food and am proficient enough on most of our staples but a good pizza I’m still working on. If you like extra chewy whole wheat I made some decent progress on. Can’t wait to really load the grill up with charcoal and get a good fast light and see how it goes. Need to burn the rib grease off anyway!

 

[begreen]

Yup that's what I use. Our shoprite sells it for $2.20 a bag on sale and $2.99 regular price. For that price it's not really worth mixing in regular AP flour for only 1 or 2 balls. Now EbSP may want to with his 15-25 ball batches.

Great, that's encouraging. It sells for about $2 a pound locally whether in the 1kg or 11 kg bag. The poolish is in the fridge. Today we go for the pizza. I wrote down the instructions and will have my iPad there for guidance.

Here is what I captured from the video:

Pizza Dough for 1-pie [2 pies] 12” size

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Poolish prep – do this 16 - 24 hrs. beforehand

100 [200] ml warm 90º water
2 [4] grams yeast
100 [200] grams 00 flour – W250?, high gluten (Anna)
a [2] dab honey

1. Mix the yeast into the room temp water
2. Mix a bit and add little honey
3. Add the flour and mix well for a minute or two
4. Cover and let it rest 1 hour at room temp, then 16-24 hrs. in the refrigerator

Pizza Dough

10 [20] grams cold water
5 [10] grams salt
60 [120] grams 00 flour
plus the polish

1. Mix the salt into the water
2. Add the salt water to the polish and mix
3. Mix in the flour, stir
4. Stretch and fold the dough repeatedly. It will be sticky. Add a little flour if it is really tacky. Work in the flour for a couple minutes.
5. Make it into a rough ball and cover for 15 minutes to let it rest.
6. Put some olive oil on your hands and pull/stretch the dough into a ball by tucking in the bottom
7. Oil the bowl with a little olive oil and put the formed dough ball in it
8. Cover and let it rest for 1-2 hrs. at room temp (the more hydration, the puffier the crust, less hydration makes a crunchier crust)
9. Put a batch of flour mixed with semolina on the board.
10. Dump the dough ball into the flour
11. Gently press the flour into it, flip and repeat a couple of times, forming the pizza shape, about 6-8” in diameter. Press the air out.
12. Move the flour out of the way and put the dough back on the board.
13. Use the right hand to press, the left hand to pull, as the dough is lifted off the table. Do this a few times to create the pizza shape.
14. With the right hand pressing lightly on the right side of the pizza dough, flip the dough over the right hand. Then, lift the left side with the left hand. Roll it down on the table.
15. Put on the sauce & cheese. Drizzle olive oil over the top.
16. Put a little flour at the beginning of the peel. Pinch the edge of the dough and then quickly slide the peel under the pizza. Stretch the pizza into a 12” final shape.
17. Bake, turning frequently in a hot oven

 

[begreen]

You mean there might be a better flour that the 1.15$ a 5# bag I used last time Costco AP flour or sams club bread flour were my next stops. Like everything the last 10% takes the most work. Starting with good flour is probably necessary if going for the Neapolitan route. My 100% whole wheat bread flour crust was about as far from light and delicate as you could get.

Right now it’s figuring out how to cook the quantity we eat as quickly as possible. I’m not there yet. I do like good food and am proficient enough on most of our staples but a good pizza I’m still working on. If you like extra chewy whole wheat I made some decent progress on. Can’t wait to really load the grill up with charcoal and get a good fast light and see how it goes. Need to burn the rib grease off anyway!

I haven't tried this, but my wife pointed out that you can buy gluten to add to say a 10% protein all-purpose flour to boost it up to around 12 or 13%. She has a jar of it from which she adds a little sometimes when making bread.

 

[bigealta]

I haven't tried this, but my wife pointed out that you can buy gluten to add to say a 10% protein all-purpose flour to boost it up to around 12 or 13%. She has a jar of it from which she adds a little sometimes when making bread.

you can probably skip 13 and 14, that's a bit more advanced stretch. If you find u don't need it skip it, just use your hands to push the air to the crust. After that you may find stretching will be too much and tear the dough.

And if u are cooking in home oven, just put sauce on dough and cook for 3-4 minutes at full blast 550F in my oven.
(Vito shows that in later videos and it works much better.)

Pull out and turn broiler on Hi, and Make sure rack is 2nd level below Broiler.
Then add cheese and whatever else.
Put pie back in till crust develops dark spots to your liking and the cheese melts.
If you use fresh Motz. then just melt it, not to bubbly, 3 ish minutes depending on your oven
Pull and enjoy!

If it's a disaster with the dough don't worry, it takes a bit (a lot) of practice. I still have major fails for various reasons.

Also if you use a wood peel and not a thin metal one, you can gently pick up the dough and place it on the peel. It's much easier, then put sauce on while on wooden peel, use plenty of semolina on wood peel so dough does not stick. Then don't waste time get it off the peel quickly into the oven. It will stick to peel if you are too slow.

 

[begreen]

Thanks, I will have to watch the home oven video at some point. My wife prefers to make it our oven.
Tonight's pizza will be in the Ooni, 700º stone temp, and about 1.5 minute bake time.

 

[begreen]

I made pizza following the video directions by making the polish the day before and using a proper 00 flour (Anna) with about a 270 W rating. All went pretty well, but I had a hard time stretching it at the final step into a proper pizza shape. It kept wanting to shrink back. At one point, one of the pizzas started tearing. I doubled the recipe which should have made two 12” pizzas but mine were more like 8-10”.

I also need to perfect my oven technique. When cooking in a 750º oven you need to be right on it. The crust flavor was good, but could have baked a little more on top. It had some air pockets, but not like Vitos. It was denser. I am getting better at spinning it on the stone, but now I can see that I need to elevate it on the peel off the hot stone for the last 30 seconds so that the top can continue to bake without darkening the bottom. Also, I have a 16” peel and now think that a 12” peel would give me more wiggle room for manipulation inside the Ooni. Overall, I would give my first attempt about a 6 or 7. I will keep at it in hopes of pizza perfection one day.

 

[bigealta]

I made pizza following the video directions by making the polish the day before and using a proper 00 flour (Anna) with about a 270 W rating. All went pretty well, but I had a hard time stretching it at the final step into a proper pizza shape. It kept wanting to shrink back. At one point, one of the pizzas started tearing. I doubled the recipe which should have made two 12” pizzas but mine were more like 8-10”.

I also need to perfect my oven technique. When cooking in a 750º oven you need to be right on it. The crust flavor was good, but could have baked a little more on top. It had some air pockets, but not like Vitos. It was denser. I am getting better at spinning it on the stone, but now I can see that I need to elevate it on the peel off the hot stone for the last 30 seconds so that the top can continue to bake without darkening the bottom. Also, I have a 16” peel and now think that a 12” peel would give me more wiggle room for manipulation inside the Ooni. Overall, I would give my first attempt about a 6 or 7. I will keep at it in hopes of pizza perfection one day.

Yes it takes a bunch of practice for sure. I would use the next level double fermentation recipe and method and just cut it in 1/2 if it's to much. The overnight makes a difference (2 nights even better). Stretching and handling the dough is a skill developed over time and much practice. Remember Vito is a pro and just like any sport or craft the pros make it look easy. But you will get great pizza, in not too long, if you want it.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I need to learn more about the right feel and moisture content of the dough. He says add a little flour if necessary, but that is subjective. I will keep practicing and reading and watching.

 

[bigealta]

For those who cold ferment their doughs. Nice test results.

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[Woodcutter Tom]

I just found this thread. Can't wait to read through and get your ideas and recipes.

I have a Pizza Que. Paid about $95.00 for it 5 years ago at Cabela's. I don't think they are made any more. Works great for me.

 

[begreen]

For those who cold ferment their doughs. Nice test results.

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At what stage is this cold ferment? It looks like it is at the final stage which was 2 hrs. for me last week. Visually, they all look good. The dough is more delicate after a week and it might taste better but they haven't perfected that part of YouTube yet. I would guess the 48 hr. might be the best?? I think I will try 24 hrs. with my batch this week.

 

[EbS-P]

Fermenting the final dough balls seems like what I would want to do in big batches. But you need space for the individual portions. I can see fermting the poolish for several days then mixing the last bit of flour and water getting a colder result with much less fridge space.

 

[bigealta]

I can see fermting the poolish for several days then mixing the last bit of flour and water getting a colder result with much less fridge space.

If that worked the pros would already be doing that. They don't want to waste time and space either.

Poolish in Fridge for 16-24 hrs max.
Dough balls in fridge for 2-3 days is pretty ideal for me.
1, 2 or 3 days of dough balls in fridge is always better than no time in fridge in my experience.
Pull dough balls from fridge for 1 or 2 hours before you use them to let them come up to room temp.

 

[bigealta]

Fermenting the final dough balls seems like what I would want to do in big batches.

Yes, Re watch the Next level Double fermentation Video.
The Bulk dough goes in the fridge overnight.
Then make balls next day and leave out on counter for 1-3 hours depending on air temps.

 

[bigealta]

At what stage is this cold ferment? It looks like it is at the final stage which was 2 hrs. for me last week. Visually, they all look good. The dough is more delicate after a week and it might taste better but they haven't perfected that part of YouTube yet. I would guess the 48 hr. might be the best?? I think I will try 24 hrs. with my batch this week.

So for the small batches just make your 1 or 2 balls and put them in individual olive oil coated bowls in fridge for as long as you want (1 to 5ish days)

 

[begreen]

A friend took his gas Weber to a new level with an easy modification. He took two firebricks and used them to straddle his pizza stone, then placed a cast iron griddle on top. The premise was to help retain the heat over the pizza better when the BBQ lid was opened. He sent me a picture last night. Reports are that it worked nicely at improving the evenness of pizza bake.