My not so great experience with FPX catalyst insert - Advice?

[Tegbert]

I always bypass the cat when loading. If I don't, I get smokey smell in the house. I think some may have misread one of my post. I wrote that it is NOT like I the pipe glowing or shaking. I personally don't think the draft is a big issue. But, the cat was certainly clogged. The brush is junk. This thing needs periodic vacuuming. The stove is performing much better since cleaning the cat. I still keep the cat temps in the 800-950 zone. To do this, I run with air control about 70% choked down. How much do not cats cost? My dealer is saying that I would have to buy this one. I am not pleased with that, as the stove is starting it's third season. The cats have a 6yr warranty. How much do they cost and where can I get a replacement? Thanks

I believe the cat for yours is the same as my rockport and I paid $250 at the dealer for mine.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[BKVP]

Check for an air leak around door, door glass. Tighten up or replace any gaskets that cannot be tightened.

A leak of room air into the firebox can and will cause thermal degradation.

Ashful is correct. Anything 1600F and higher will ruin the cat.

Under Federal law, the original combustor has a 3 year, 100% warranty against thermal degradation. (This is current law and is under review by EPA).

If you can study how the cat responds to cutting back the air, you may find that as you dial back the air, cat temps may increase. Slowing the air down increases residence time, essentially allowing for more particulate/gas conversion. Turn it back up, cat temp may drop, although stove is hotter.

Lastly, it is against the law for a manufacturer to instruct you to use a damper in the venting...UNLESS CERTIFIED/TESTED that way. However, you are getting real world, practical input from stove owners and operators in this forum.

 

[besjoux]

following this as I wonder if this unit is the 42 Apex........FWIW, I do vacuum our cat when we cool the unit to clean the glass (WEEKLY). Please tell me this isn't another thing we are going to have to replace and wait forever under warranty. THis fireplace is becoming a huge joke!!

 

[Hot Stuff]

The warranty on that fireplace cat is 1-2 years parts and labor and 3-5 years parts only. When a part is repaired, it is still warrantied under the original warranty period. So you are outside of getting it swapped for free, but should absolutely be getting a free replacement. Travis may require the dealer to install it for it to be covered, so you could be on the hook for the service call and labor cost (which could be as much as just buying a cat yourself).

Travis also lists a max of 33 feet of chimney (from the bottom of the stove), so they cannot claim that your chimney is too tall and your warranty is void (even if this is what the problem is).

 

[Ashful]

following this as I wonder if this unit is the 42 Apex........FWIW, I do vacuum our cat when we cool the unit to clean the glass (WEEKLY). Please tell me this isn't another thing we are going to have to replace and wait forever under warranty. THis fireplace is becoming a huge joke!!

The issues being seen by the original poster in this thread are not common. We’ve seen this before, so I won’t say it’s completely unique, but it is not common.

Install per the manufacturer’s spec, follow the operating manual, and run your stove on dry wood, and you’re unlikely to have any such problems.

Getting back to this thread, there are a few open ends, unless I’ve missed their conclusion:

1. Lopi does not specify any minimum draft, maximum draft, or even optimum draft numbers. Nothing. Useless.

2. Other cat stoves often indicate numbers around .05” - .06” WC (can @BKVP tell us why?). If this were my stove, I’d want to check draft under a high burn (hot chimney), and verify I’m not too awfully far from .05” WC.

3. The OP posted single-digit MC% numbers for his firewood, and this is just not possible, unless he is burning kiln-dried lumber stored in air conditioning. The Equilibrium MC%’s for most of the lower 48 are in the low- to mid-teens, when stored in a shed, so this is as good as it is going to get for most people. More often, people are burning around 20% - 25% MC. We need to get a real sense of the wood quality.

To properly measure moisture content:

1. Wood must be at room temperature, or you must use a correction table to compensate for difference between current wood temperature and 70F (where your meter was calibrated). Never try to measure MC% on frozen wood, it just doesn’t work.

2. Wood should be split immediately before testing, and all testing should be on that freshly-split face (formerly, the center of the split).

3. You should test middle and a few inches from each end, on that freshly-split face. Average the three readings together.

4. You should repeat on at least a few pieces from your pile, to be sure you didn’t just end up grabbing an unusually wet or dry piece from your stock.

 

[Tegbert]

After about 1/2 hr or so and the temps are back up to 600+, I engage the cat. The cat will then stay engaged until I reload.

600 cat temp or stove temp? Either or I think you are leaving the bypass open too long. It shouldn’t take a half hour especially if reloading on coals. Unless your wood is not dry enough.



Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[jetsam]

2. Other cat stoves often indicate numbers around .05” - .06” WC (can @BKVP tell us why?). If this were my stove, I’d want to check draft under a high burn (hot chimney), and verify I’m not too awfully far from .

Imagine that you are designing a carb and you have absolutely no control over input air pressure, which will vary greatly for each user, and also no control over fuel flow. Fun?

 

[Carlv123]

I'm having problems with my FPX as well and my setup is very similar. I get 4 to 6 hours burn time tops and the installer thinks it's a draft issue. He wants to install a damper but says it will take 2 months... Not happy with this insert at all.

 

[fire_man]

This may be one of the most oft-recurring posts on this forum, “I can’t believe how much better the new combustor is, next time I won’t wait so long to change it out.”

Yup that would be me just last week.....

 

[weatherguy]

I'm having problems with my FPX as well and my setup is very similar. I get 4 to 6 hours burn time tops and the installer thinks it's a draft issue. He wants to install a damper but says it will take 2 months... Not happy with this insert at all.

If that's the problem I think you'll start to like it once its installed.

 

[Ashful]

I'm having problems with my FPX as well and my setup is very similar. I get 4 to 6 hours burn time tops and the installer thinks it's a draft issue. He wants to install a damper but says it will take 2 months... Not happy with this insert at all.

Took me 5 minutes with a piece of masking tape, a tape measure, and hand drill. If you want to DIY it, we can provide guidance and emotional support.

 

[begreen]

This is an insert, not a freestanding stove. Installing a flue damper takes some planning and a custom rod to operate it.

 

[Carlv123]

This is an insert, not a freestanding stove. Installing a flue damper takes some planning and a custom rod to operate it.

That's what I was told. Hope the dealer makes good but so far he's make a lot of excuses and kind of blows me off.

 

[wooduser]

This is an insert, not a freestanding stove. Installing a flue damper takes some planning and a custom rod to operate it.

Just out of curiosity, how would you do that?

What occurs to me would be drilling a hole through the front of the fireplace and inserting a rod through the masonry and into the flue where it would connect up with the damper, replacing the handle typically on a damper. Essentially you'd have a damper operated by a longer rod than normal.

But that's just a guess.

 

[begreen]

More likely a hole through the surround.

 

[weatherguy]

Just out of curiosity, how would you do that?

What occurs to me would be drilling a hole through the front of the fireplace and inserting a rod through the masonry and into the flue where it would connect up with the damper, replacing the handle typically on a damper. Essentially you'd have a damper operated by a longer rod than normal.

But that's just a guess.

Bholler has done it, there was also another member who rigged something up that was easy to use.

 

[clydesdale]

Update - my dealer called me back and now states that 1200 temps are fine and that 1500 is where you ruin it. I have never run it anywhere near 1500. When the cat was new it did hit 1200. Tonight with the air at 60% closed, I hit 1000. It is much better since cleaning it and I do believe that some ash could have been clogging it. When I crack the door open, I do see some ash get sucked up. But, the cat now glows from end to end. Before I cleaned it, only the center glowed. Also, flame certainly can reach the cat, so I now slow the flames way down if the fire is roaring, then I engage the cat. The stove is about 25 months old. Do I push for a new cat? All I need is the part, I can install it easily.
I bring my firewood inside and it is in the teens. I measure the MC on both sides of the split. I then rorate the wood to be in front of the insert to dry out more. I do this because I am paranoid about the moisture. I then measure the wood before it goes in. That is when I get the single digits. So, maybe that is not fully accurate. But, the wood is at worst in the higher teens.

 

[BKVP]

Did you verify door gasket is tight?

 

[clydesdale]

yes. Dealer had me put dollar bill in door and shut it. No way the dollar was budging when pulled. I would have to rip the dollar to get it out.

 

[wooduser]

Update - my dealer called me back and now states that 1200 temps are fine and that 1500 is where you ruin it. I

The problem with this is that you have no documentation of this recommendation and no particular reason that it's true. After all, in an earlier post you said the dealer recommended 850 as an operating temperature. The manufacturer lets themselves off the hook by being vague about such things in the operating manual, and the dealer gives you specific advice that isn't consistant from one call to the next.

At least you now know how long the warranty covers the part. Since it's working OK now, perhaps you should make a note to check the operation of the cat sometime before the warranty expires and yip good 'n loud to get another replacement if it's not working properly at that time.

Perhaps some of our Xperts can recommend strategies to insure you get the part replaced if it does need to be replaced before the warranty expires. For example. do you need to have a service call to verify that the cat isn't working? Suppose you call in to schedule a service call before the warranty expires but the service call takes place after it expires ---- are the dealer or manufacturer going to use that as an excuse to cut you loose? If the service guy asks you what operating temperature you use and you say "1,000" is the dealer pious going to say "Well I TOLD you 850 was the max!" Does the warranty period begin the day you bought the stove or the date it was installed?

Unfortunately, it starts to sound like a racket.

 

[clydesdale]

Oh it definitely sounds like a racket. I looked all over the manual for the manufacturers recommendation and it is not there. I also have been looking for a tech number to call Travis industries and apparently that does not exist either. There should be a number to call them directly. Certainly my dealer confidence is shaken based on the changing information. The cat still works, but it certainly looks extremely cracked and broken in the center.

 

[Hot Stuff]

Travis Customer Service 800-654-1177

They seem to prefer for things to be handled through a dealer, but perhaps they will help considering all the conflicting info your dealer has given.

 

[clydesdale]

Thanks for the number. That should help greatly. Thanks again.

 

[jetsam]

If you want honest numbers for catalyst temperature ranges, go to the company that made the catalyst. (Or I can save you a google; 1500°F is the top of the recommended operating range, and you start sintering the wash coat and flattening it out shortly thereafter.)

You should of course follow the operating advice of the stove manufacturer, but anyone who tells you that a non-dieselfoil cat can't handle 1500° is wrong.

As far as the mechanical failure of the cat goes, webby (who knows stoves) said on the first page that it was just gonna happen with this stove design. Switching to steel would stop the ceramic from crumbling next time.

So address the draft with a damper, put in a steel cat, and don't listen when noises come out of the dealer's noise hole. Problem solved! (You will also want to get a rotary cleaner because you can't put a brush through the new damper.)

Note that the stove company and dealer are obliged to tell you that you can't use a steel cat if they didn't pay to test the stove with a steel cat; doesn't make it a bad idea.

 

[Carlv123]

Could you provide me with your cat temps at different intervals? I'm having issues with the stove dropping from 1200 to 547 within 45 min of reducing the air. Dealer says it's a draft issue but I'm lost as to the logic.