Need Recommendation if I Replace My Blaze King

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Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
Think about it this way. A replacement cat every 4-5 years will cost you about 1200$ if the stove runs 20 years and you burn a good bit. Are you saving enough more than that with a 25D eligible install?
We really don't burn much. We use it to supplement our heating system which is an air exchange with mini-split units. It works fine most of the time but needs help when temperatures get really cold outside. We typically fire up when temperatures drop into the 20s, which doesn't happen often in western Washington.

If the tax credit were available, I'd go with the T5 even though it's a bit small for our home because we're just supplementing and could run it hot. Ideally the T6 would be offered in brown enamel and be eligible for the tax credit but neither is so. Ah, but for a perfect world.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,997
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Think about it this way. A replacement cat every 4-5 years will cost you about 1200$ if the stove runs 20 years and you burn a good bit. Are you saving enough more than that with a 25D eligible install?

Good point. Though in theory, the efficiency benefit of the cat stove should offset this to some degree. Less wood to buy. Another thought is that this Manchester is new and the catalyst might not need replacement very often, especially in a part time burning application such as this.

Tough choice. The T5 is a dandy.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,223
Long Island NY
I don't think cat or non-cat is a big driver here. Wanting to change (understandably), preferring enamel (unfortunately severely limiting the choice), and liking the tax credit.

Let's not make this a cat vs non-cat debate here.
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
I don't think cat or non-cat is a big driver here. Wanting to change (understandably), preferring enamel (unfortunately severely limiting the choice), and liking the tax credit.

Let's not make this a cat vs non-cat debate here.
I'm trying to get away from the cat but only because it doesn't work so well in my low draw, occasional use setup. Would like to be able to pump out a lot of heat efficiently. Nothing against cats. They make a lot of sense when one wants a low, long consistent burn.

With the Manchester, I'm concerned about the new design which isn't well vetted and begreen spoke of how their stoves, in the past, had hinge issues. So there's risk and it's also a more expensive stove. But it is more similar in size to my Ashford. Very similar in fact.

In theory the hybrid system should be best of both worlds. In practice, we'll see.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,997
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
I'm trying to get away from the cat but only because it doesn't work so well in my low draw, occasional use setup. Would like to be able to pump out a lot of heat efficiently. Nothing against cats. They make a lot of sense when one wants a low, long consistent burn.

With the Manchester, I'm concerned about the new design which isn't well vetted and begreen spoke of how their stoves, in the past, had hinge issues. So there's risk and it's also a more expensive stove. But it is more similar in size to my Ashford. Very similar in fact.

In theory the hybrid system should be best of both worlds. In practice, we'll see.
You say the Manchester is more expensive, that starts to eat away at the savings from the tax credit. Then, your admittedly low draft chimney could be a problem for the hearthstone. At least one of there other new hybrids required a very strong draft per the manual.

I’m leaning towards the noncat t5 because you’re doing this for a change. The hearthstone could be no better than your ashford.
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
You say the Manchester is more expensive, that starts to eat away at the savings from the tax credit. Then, your admittedly low draft chimney could be a problem for the hearthstone. At least one of there other new hybrids required a very strong draft per the manual.

I’m leaning towards the noncat t5 because you’re doing this for a change. The hearthstone could be no better than your ashford.
That's a really good point. What would happen if I simply removed the cat from the Manchester?
 

rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,601
Michigan
Buy what you want, get the T5. Anything else will just give you regret. The money saved from the credit over 20 years is nothing.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,164
central pa
Good point. Though in theory, the efficiency benefit of the cat stove should offset this to some degree. Less wood to buy. Another thought is that this Manchester is new and the catalyst might not need replacement very often, especially in a part time burning application such as this.

Tough choice. The T5 is a dandy.
The difference of a couple percentage points in efficency isn't going to offset much cost really.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
30,164
central pa
Fix your draft problem first. That is going to cause problems no matter what stove you choose
 
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Oct 13, 2020
167
Quebec, Canada
Good point. Though in theory, the efficiency benefit of the cat stove should offset this to some degree. Less wood to buy. Another thought is that this Manchester is new and the catalyst might not need replacement very often, especially in a part time burning application such as this.

Tough choice. The T5 is a dandy.
Only until you have to replace a $300.00 - $400.00 cat and the gasket that goes around it every few years ( like everything else the cat will be much more expensive in a few years ). Around here anyways the certified chimney sweeps charge more $$ for their cleaning and inspection job because they tell me it takes longer to get the job done on stoves with a cat especially if your insurer requires a documented inspection certificate .
Less wood maybe, but it is a moot point !
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
Only until you have to replace a $300.00 - $400.00 cat and the gasket that goes around it every few years ( like everything else the cat will be much more expensive in a few years ). Around here anyways the certified chimney sweeps charge more $$ for their cleaning and inspection job because they tell me it takes longer to get the job done on stoves with a cat especially if your insurer requires a documented inspection certificate .
Less wood maybe, but it is a moot point !
I wonder if it could be run without the cat.
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
Buy what you want, get the T5. Anything else will just give you regret. The money saved from the credit over 20 years is nothing.
You make a good point. This is a long-term investment. I don't need to be in a rush about this. I could wait until stoves are abundant again. Maybe at some point they'll come down in price when supply chain problems are in the rear-view mirror. I could wait and see if they eventually make an enamel version of the T6 or perhaps something else will come along. Or maybe a mint, almost new enamel T5 will show up on Craigslist in the next year or so. With so many people buying stoves, surely some of them will decide they don't actually want one.
 

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,662
Ottawa, ON
Have not read the whole thread. How far are the trees from the house?
 

Diabel

Minister of Fire
Jan 11, 2008
3,662
Ottawa, ON
Do not take them down. That is what I was getting at.
The cap on the chimney, is that a common cap for your area? Is that like a extreme rain/wind cap?
 

moresnow

Minister of Fire
Jan 13, 2015
2,075
Iowa
How much pipe is above your roof penetration? Could more be added?
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
Do not take them down. That is what I was getting at.
The cap on the chimney, is that a common cap for your area? Is that like a extreme rain/wind cap?
I don't know. I think it got replaced early on, when they were trying to fix the draw. I'm wondering if that's what caused the leak.
 

d.sebens

Member
Oct 26, 2021
89
White Heath Illinois
Why not?

And on the draw issue, how would one go about fixing it short of cutting down trees?
Because the stove manufacturer made it that way? Tube stoves use that to burn smoke, cat stoves use a cat. Hybrid stoves rely on both. If you remove the cat you will lose lots of heat up the chimney and will also be polluting more smoke. The cat isn’t just there to clean up the smoke, it’s a huge increase on heat compared to no secondary burn at all.
 
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Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
How much pipe is above your roof penetration? Could more be added?
The original installer added an extra piece, taking it up about as high as it can go. Was hard to add that section, given that there's no access for a cherry picker. Two guys had to work together to lift it into place and secure it. Then they had to attach supports to the roof to keep it stable when the wind blows. Going higher is not an option.
 

Parallax

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2013
873
Bellingham, WA
Because the stove manufacturer made it that way? Tube stoves use that to burn smoke, cat stoves use a cat. Hybrid stoves rely on both. If you remove the cat you will lose lots of heat up the chimney and will also be polluting more smoke. The cat isn’t just there to clean up the smoke, it’s a huge increase on heat compared to no secondary burn at all.
This stove used to be made without the cat. Would the burn tubes b less effective in the new design? I wonder if the redesign was that comprehensive. I remain concerned, nonetheless, about buying a stove that hasn't been thoroughly tested in real world use.
 

d.sebens

Member
Oct 26, 2021
89
White Heath Illinois
This stove used to be made without the cat. Would the burn tubes b less effective in the new design? I wonder if the redesign was that comprehensive. I remain concerned, nonetheless, about buying a stove that hasn't been thoroughly tested in real world use.
It was redesigned to use a cat. The installing of the cat would of removed some areas for burn tubes. Burn tubes are effective. Removing the cat does not replace the burn tubes that aren’t there anymore. As in, they didn’t just slap a cat on top of the firebox. It was designed for it. The difference in efficiency between burn tubes and cats isn’t that large but removing the cat doesn’t make it a tube stove.
 
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