What to expect?

[Devonian]

Hey everyone, I've been lurking for a few weeks and am enjoying the site!

I'm in the process of buying a home in central Maryland near the Mason Dixon line. The house is an open concept ranch with 3,000 sq ft of living space. Most of the back side of the house is floor to ceiling windows so I'm really concerned about heating costs with the existing oil furnaces. There is a brick fireplace located in the center of the house and I'm planning on installing an insert asap.

Right now I'm leaning towards a Blaze King Princess insert but because its rated for up to 2,500 sq ft I'm concerned about how effective it will be versus something like the Kuma Sequoia. I like that the Princess seems to be better suited to burn from fall through spring, so what I might miss in heating during the coldest days I "think" I'll make up by burning longer in the shoulder seasons.

I've never lived with a wood stove so I have no frame of reference for any of this. I think I'll like that the Blaze King might be easier on the wood supply, that I might not need to tend to it as much and that I can run it during the shoulder seasons without it overheating the house but if I'm spending over 5k on installing a stove I want it to make a serious impact on my heating costs and the lower sq ft rating of the princess has me questioning if its the right choice.


Any opinions out there on if the Princess Insert is right for me? Any other insert I should consider?

 

[begreen]

In your climate zone the Princess could work fine as long as there aren't extenuating circumstances like 20' ceilings and tons of glass. Regardless of choice, either stove is going to need fully seasoned wood to perform well.

 

[Devonian]

Most of the back half of the house is glass, floor to ceiling, and there are two areas of vaulted ceilings but more like 12' high. There is about a cord of wood on the property and as part of settlement the sellers are having a standing dead oak cut down and I requested the wood from that be left on site for me.

 

[begreen]

Even standing dead needs time to dry out. It should be split, stacked and top covered asap.

 

[jetsam]

We had kind of a long Princess vs. Sequoia thread recently.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/calling-on-kuma-sequoia-owners-also-bk-princess.159247/

 

[Poindexter]

Which compass heading does the glass wall face?

 

[Devonian]

Which compass heading does the glass wall face?

That's a good point that I hadn't considered, the windows face South but the house is surrounded by trees so I'm not sure how much sun will come in.

We had kind of a long Princess vs. Sequoia thread recently.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/calling-on-kuma-sequoia-owners-also-bk-princess.159247/

Thanks, I read that and found it useful. I think what I really want to know is how the princess will perform in my specific situation... is it enough to make a serious dent into my oil bill or should I look at other options such as the sequoia? I understand that this is pretty much impossible to answer but I hope to get a few nuggets to take away.

 

[peakbagger]

I would strongly urge you to see if your utility has an energy audit program and if so get one done ASAP. They most likely will uncover a lot of low cost ways to reduce your energy usage. Floor to ceiling windows unfortunately are usually a liability, they roast the participants in the summer and freeze them at night in the winter. Overhangs and plantings can sometimes help things a bit but in many cases it may require more radical upgrades.

 

[Devonian]

Here are a couple of pics from the real estate listing for some reference.

 

[jetsam]

... is it enough to make a serious dent into my oil bill or should I look at other options such as the sequoia? I understand that this is pretty much impossible to answer but I hope to get a few nuggets to take away.

Either stove can make a serious dent; if you're going to burn it in shoulder season too, the princess will do better than the sequoia overall. The sequoia has a bigger firebox, which will be an advantage on the coldest days.

Whether "a serious dent" is 25% or 100% of your heating is up to the space to be heated. Poor insulation and single pane windows could make 3000SF an impossible task for any stove.

 

[Marshy]

I've been told by BK that the max output between the Pincess and the King is marginal and the size of the firebox translates to longer times between refueling. My only advice is heed all the recommendations for the chimney.

 

[begreen]

That's a good point that I hadn't considered, the windows face South but the house is surrounded by trees so I'm not sure how much sun will come in.

Thanks, I read that and found it useful. I think what I really want to know is how the princess will perform in my specific situation... is it enough to make a serious dent into my oil bill or should I look at other options such as the sequoia? I understand that this is pretty much impossible to answer but I hope to get a few nuggets to take away.

Without a doubt, if you are burning dry wood, 24/7 in the insert, there will be a notable dent in the heating bill. Your mild climate makes me think that most of the time the insert will be able to heat the house. If the central heat has to come on a few days a year, it's no big deal. How much the savings will be will depend on the cost of procuring the wood.

Note that the Sequoia takes an 8" flue liner. That alone may make the Princess more attractive if an insulated 6" liner is a better fit.

 

[maple1]

If your main consideration is denting the winter fuel bill, I would just go with the biggest output rating between the two.

A house that size likely won't overheat in shoulder season - if it does, it's likely due to characteristics that would prevent the stove heat from distributing favorably in winter too. In which case it might not matter which stove you get.

(That turned into circle talk I think...)

Maximum winter comfort & fuel bill dent would likely come with an add-on wood furnace. What are the possibilities of that?

 

[Alpine1]

Here are a couple of pics from the real estate listing for some reference.

I know nothing about heating, but for sure your house looks AWESOME!

 

[Devonian]

If your main consideration is denting the winter fuel bill, I would just go with the biggest output rating between the two.

A house that size likely won't overheat in shoulder season - if it does, it's likely due to characteristics that would prevent the stove heat from distributing favorably in winter too. In which case it might not matter which stove you get.

(That turned into circle talk I think...)

Maximum winter comfort & fuel bill dent would likely come with an add-on wood furnace. What are the possibilities of that?

I really haven't looked into a furnace. I really like that a stove has multiple functions... heat, ambiance and can provide heat and possibly cooking surface in a power outage. I'm sure there is a more practical way to heat this house but it's a balance between many factors.

 

[peakbagger]

A solar power system with net metering and mini splits is generally the best option if you have a spot with south facing exposure in moderate climate like yours. Unfortunately it doesn't have the capability to deal with power outage unless you have a generator.

 

[jetsam]

That's a lot of glass. Even before the stove, I'd be taking a hard look at the big patio doors and all the windows in the house. Make sure everything is double-pane and non-leaky.



Replacing leaky single pane glass isn't cheap, but it's cheaper than not replacing it, and you appear to have more stake in this game than most.

 

[Devonian]

Ha, you found me! At least it is all double pane glass. I'm moving from a 900 sq ft cape cod to this so you can understand my concern. I've tried to ask the sellers what their typical bill was but haven't had much luck.

 

[jetsam]

Ha, you found me! At least it is all double pane glass. I'm moving from a 900 sq ft cape cod to this so you can understand my concern. I've tried to ask the sellers what their typical bill was but haven't had much luck.

Eh, it looks pretty open inside, so I doubt the bill will be bad with a wood stove and double pane glass.

Buy an IR thermometer and hunt for leaks the first winter- or an IR camera if you're feeling fancy!

 

[Marshy]

Ha, you found me! At least it is all double pane glass. I'm moving from a 900 sq ft cape cod to this so you can understand my concern. I've tried to ask the sellers what their typical bill was but haven't had much luck.

Can't you get a 12 month summary directly from the utility?

If you are considering a Sequoia which uses a 8" flue/chimney pipe, would you consider a BK King? The beauty of the King is more horse power over the Princess but it retains the ability to be turned down. The price of the King is more than the princess but the installation of a king with the 8" would be the same as a Sequoia...

 

[peakbagger]

My parents had a similar all glass front wall. Even with double panes, the glass sucked the heat out at night. They put in vertical blinds that cut down on radiant heat loss but we still needed continuous baseboard at the base to keep the room warn in very cold weather. I expect it was half their heating use. If they had kept it we were looking at vertical cellular blinds with custom side tracks but it would really impact the look. When they bought it we planted several shade trees and eventually we cut down on summer time heating load as it could get real warm in the summer.

 

[Highbeam]

The sequoia can be installed as an insert but it doesn't stick out of the wall very much so very little area for cooking if that matters to you. It tests as having very high efficiency and high output so it will be a great machine to use if you want to bring that whole house up from 60-70 on a cold day. What it doesn't offer is a thermostat or a low burn rate that makes for long burn times. Long burn times are excellent unless you are home during the day to reload it.

In my opinion, the sequoia is not very pretty and looks even older than the princess which isn't exactly known for being a beauty. The relative rareness of the sequoia means finding replacement cats will be harder and more expensive than the BK.

Tough choice. The specs on the sequoia are great and it offers very good output. You have a perfectly capable oil furnace(s) to make up for any shortcomings from the princess which is a known good performer.

The 8" pipe requirement makes the sequoia an oddball. Very few stoves use that size.

Must you go with an insert? With so many SF, you can surely find room for a stove? Then you can get into some more options.

 

[Devonian]

A freestanding stove would be great but there really isn't a logical spot to put one outside of modifying the existing hearth, which is an option but I don't think it's an expense that we are willing to take on at this point.

I did call the energy company today and they were able to go back to 2015, the last year the house was occupied, and gave me the average usage.

I kind of think the key will be to have whatever I end up installing running 24/7 as I imagine the window will suck out the heat pretty quickly.

 

[Highbeam]

A freestanding stove would be great but there really isn't a logical spot to put one outside of modifying the existing hearth, which is an option but I don't think it's an expense that we are willing to take on at this point.

I did call the energy company today and they were able to go back to 2015, the last year the house was occupied, and gave me the average usage.

I kind of think the key will be to have whatever I end up installing running 24/7 as I imagine the window will suck out the heat pretty quickly.

Just know that every 10 cents of wood you burn saves you 20 cents of oil that you don't burn. Assuming you pay about 200$ for a cord of wood and 2$ per gallon of oil. So even if the furnaces kick in every day, you will be saving money by burning. I heat 100% with wood but there are many here on this forum that just do the best they can with wood and let the furnace fill in.

Some stoves have rear exit flues so the stove sits on the floor and the chimney shoots out the back into the old fireplace and connect to a liner that goes to the cap. Woodstock offers some nice stoves like this.

I really like my BK's ability to run for 30 hours without filling while giving me 80 some % efficiency. 90% of the year this very low setting is enough heat to keep my house very warm and minimizes wood consumption and minimizes the effort spent refilling the stove. If I want more heat or to watch flames then I just increase the burn rate and fill more often.

 

[jetsam]

A freestanding stove would be great but there really isn't a logical spot to put one outside of modifying the existing hearth, which is an option but I don't think it's an expense that we are willing to take on at this point.

I did call the energy company today and they were able to go back to 2015, the last year the house was occupied, and gave me the average usage.

I kind of think the key will be to have whatever I end up installing running 24/7 as I imagine the window will suck out the heat pretty quickly.

I'd say that if you're retired and home all the time, it's a bit of a toss up. The sequoia has a bigger firebox and is closer to the right size for the job in the middle of the winter, but the BK is much more even heat, longer burns, and just convenient to operate on your schedule (add wood any time, no overfires). If you're not retired, BK all the way.

If you change your mind about ripping up the fireplace, though, a freestanding King is a better sized stove for that job, and shares the awesome shoulder season advantages that the Princess has.