2017-18 Blaze King Performance Thread PART 3 (Everything BK)

[allan5oh]

I went double wall on the stove pipe connected to my taller chimney, knowing there was a higher likelihood of flue gasses dropping below 212F in a 30 foot stack. On my shorter chimney (total 15 feet), I figured single wall was likely fine, as exhaust temp doesn’t drop that much in such a short run. So far, it appears I was right, no issues with creosote, condensation, or freezing at the cap.

But now your short stack and long stack will have drastically different drafts. From a purely draft perspective the opposite approach would be true. Double in the short stack single in the long.

Also I wonder if an OAK will help with a single wall stack. Dealing with creosote and such. Is it possible a hearth with an OAK can run lower exit temps?

 

[kennyp2339]

@Newburnerwisconsin - perhaps the installer is talking about the black pipe needing to be upgraded to double wall (which BK recommends) or maybe the Ashford 30 clearances are to big to fit your existing hearth area, the shiny metal chimney is fine.
Or maybe the ceiling is to low for what BK recommends, or the offset needed to make the ceiling support box to the stove would be to big to make it work.

 

[Newburnerwisconsin]

@Newburnerwisconsin - perhaps the installer is talking about the black pipe needing to be upgraded to double wall (which BK recommends) or maybe the Ashford 30 clearances are to big to fit your existing hearth area, the shiny metal chimney is fine.
Or maybe the ceiling is to low for what BK recommends, or the offset needed to make the ceiling support box to the stove would be to big to make it work.

We only discussed the duratech chimney. He never did call me back. Woodstock says it's fine. A Jotul dealer said the same thing. I did find another BK dealer and they said it looked good to them. The are giving me a quote on the Ashford.

 

[Ashful]

But now your short stack and long stack will have drastically different drafts. From a purely draft perspective the opposite approach would be true. Double in the short stack single in the long.

This is correct. My short chimney with single-wall stovepipe has draft that’s just about perfect. My tall chimney with the double-wall stovepipe pulls more than 3x harder than the allowable maximum draft.

But that wasn’t the question. My point was that the single wall works fine, countering a prior claim that double wall was absolutely necessary.

 

[allan5oh]

This is correct. My short chimney with single-wall stovepipe has draft that’s just about perfect. My tall chimney with the double-wall stovepipe pulls more than 3x harder than the allowable maximum draft.

But that wasn’t the question. My point was that the single wall works fine, countering a prior claim that double wall was absolutely necessary.

Bingo got it. Thanks

 

[kf6hap]

Also I wonder if an OAK will help with a single wall stack. Dealing with creosote and such. Is it possible a hearth with an OAK can run lower exit temps?

Not to any meaningful extent. I tried it. The flue temp was unchanged. For those who live in -40 territory, I don't know for sure but I think the flue temp decrease would still be small.

I never heard of anybody having creosote problems due to an outside air kit being applied. The only negative is possible condensation.

I don't see any way it could help a single walled stack unless the house is air tight and starving the stove.

 

[kennyp2339]

Also I wonder if an OAK will help with a single wall stack. Dealing with creosote and such. Is it possible a hearth with an OAK can run lower exit temps?

Negative, the only thing that will happen is that the fire box will be cooler causing the t-stat to open to maintain the t-stat setting of the desired heat output (stove top) You have to remember the internal temps of the actual fire is far higher than what any temp will report on a stove top, so cold oak air will have no effect on stack temps.

 

[Ashful]

Negative, the only thing that will happen is that the fire box will be cooler causing the t-stat to open to maintain the t-stat setting of the desired heat output (stove top) You have to remember the internal temps of the actual fire is far higher than what any temp will report on a stove top, so cold oak air will have no effect on stack temps.

True'dat. Let's put it in perspective:

Internal firebox temp: 800 - 1000degK
Room temp: 300degK
Outside air temp: 235 - 275degK

So, you're changing the temperature delta between firebox and incoming air from 600K to 650K... not a very big difference between room air and outside air, when considering internal firebox temperature.

 

[Poindexter]

True'dat. Let's put it in perspective:

Internal firebox temp: 800K - 1000K
Room temp: 300K
Outside air temp: 235K - 275K

So, you're changing the temperature delta between firebox and incoming air from 600K to 650K... not a very big difference between room air and outside air, when considering internal firebox temperature.

Even I did a double take there big guy. At first I thought you meant the fire box temp was 800, 000 to 1,000,000 dF.

degrees Kelvin. same size as a degree Celcius or centigrade, but zero K is absolute zero, outer space, where molecular motion stops.

Nice to see a bit of science here ever once in a while. Let the drama resume.

 

[drz1050]

Yes, but of course the Ashford would outperform them.

Curious why you think the Ashford outperforms the Ideal Steel?

 

[moresnow]

Anywho. How many vac the face of your cat during a sweep and clean shut down? My cat is closing in on the end of year 2. Must admit I pulled the flame guard and ran the vac across the face for the first time a few days ago. It had looked fine to me before hand. Wow. Looked mucho better after the vac treatment. Also cleaned/vac'd the backside which I have been doing at each sweep. Seemed to be much brighter also at the next light off. Guess I need better glasses to monitor buildup. Dollar store readers might not be cutting it anymore...... Eyesight must be following in step with my hair. Grey and diminishing.

 

[Ashful]

Curious why you think the Ashford outperforms the Ideal Steel?

Knowing webby, he’s probably owned both, or at least has customers that do. This guy changes his wood stove more often than some of you change the oil in your car.

 

[Ashful]

Even I did a double take there big guy. At first I thought you meant the fire box temp was 800, 000 to 1,000,000 dF.

degrees Kelvin.

Hah, I do this for a living, so I don’t even think that some haven’t used Kelvin since high school chemistry. I’ll edit my post to make it more clear.

 

[Ashful]

Anywho. How many vac the face of your cat during a sweep and clean shut down? My cat is closing in on the end of year 2. Must admit I pulled the flame guard and ran the vac across the face for the first time a few days ago. It had looked fine to me before hand. Wow. Looked mucho better after the vac treatment. Also cleaned/vac'd the backside which I have been doing at each sweep. Seemed to be much brighter also at the next light off. Guess I need better glasses to monitor buildup. Dollar store readers might not be cutting it anymore...... Eyesight must be following in step with my hair. Grey and diminishing.

I didn’t the first year, but I’ve since found this is necessary, on my stoves. Vacuum your cat, folks.

In the Jotuls, I’d just remove it and tap it on the hearth to knock the ash loose, and put it back in the stove. But removing a cat from a BK means purchasing more interam gasket, something that costs me $15 shipping, each time. The Jotul cats also picked up much less ash and other impacted crud, thanks to their otherwise frustrating downdraft design.

 

[kf6hap]

Curious why you think the Ashford outperforms the Ideal Steel?

Easy: 1. The ashford has excellent thermostatic control that more or less fixes the burn rate at the set level. After it is set, no further operator intervention is required. 2 Burn time, largely due to #1. 3 The ability to COMPLETELY stuff the firebox full. It will not rage out of control but be controlled by the thermostat. 4. No damper re-adjusting every so often. 5. The Ashford gives off both radiant and convective heat in a proportion that makes the stove an excellent choice for heating the stove room and adjacent rooms while minimizing the temperature differential.

The maximum BTU output is important but the minimum BTU output is the more important. A BK can be set to burn at an unbelievably low burn rate.

My experience.

 

[webby3650]

Curious why you think the Ashford outperforms the Ideal Steel?

Burn times baby! Burn times!

 

[drz1050]

I've seen reports from the other site of Ideal Steel burn times longer than what I've seen for the Ashford. Makes sense, as it has a larger firebox and very similar efficiency numbers. The more BTUs you put in, the more you can get out.
Kf6- I agree on the thermostatic control point, that feature is quite nice. I haven't seen any reports on people holding back from stuffing their Ideal Steel full, so I surmise their air control doesn't let the stove overfire either. As for convection, I believe the soapstone panels on the Ideal Steel work much the same as the cast iron ones on the Ashford. Could be wrong here, but I think there's a gap between the stove box top and sides to them. I've yet to see one in person.

None of this is meant to bash the Ashford and/ or lift up the IS. I just like cold hard data and facts. Kinda hard to find that stuff in a topic as variable as wood burning. They're both great stoves for sure.

 

[sutphenj]

I've seen reports from the other site of Ideal Steel burn times longer than what I've seen for the Ashford. Makes sense, as it has a larger firebox and very similar efficiency numbers. The more BTUs you put in, the more you can get out.
Kf6- I agree on the thermostatic control point, that feature is quite nice. I haven't seen any reports on people holding back from stuffing their Ideal Steel full, so I surmise their air control doesn't let the stove overfire either. As for convection, I believe the soapstone panels on the Ideal Steel work much the same as the cast iron ones on the Ashford. Could be wrong here, but I think there's a gap between the stove box top and sides to them. I've yet to see one in person.

None of this is meant to bash the Ashford and/ or lift up the IS. I just like cold hard data and facts. Kinda hard to find that stuff in a topic as variable as wood burning. They're both great stoves for sure.

Also hard to get factual cold hard data on here as of late given 4 out of 5 folks will ramp up a BK. Maybe the site needs to change names to hearthking.com

 

[sutphenj]

Also hard to get factual cold hard data on here as of late given 4 out of 5 folks will ramp up a BK. Maybe the site needs to change names to hearthking.com

I'm being coy btw....emoji didn't show up in that last post. To clarify further I think cold hard facts are found on here as there are lots of experienced folks .... it's sometimes application and philosophy of use get skewed in my opinion.

 

[estepracing]

What's your stats for this year...

Here's mine

Square footage... 3300 living, 1000 basement

Insulation Factor... High

Windows and doors... 50% terrible, 50% decent

Location... Northern Indiana middle of nowhere on top of a hill

Heat source... Blaze King King polar

Wood usage... 3.5 cord

Blaze King King Wood Stove

 

[Highbeam]

I've seen reports from the other site of Ideal Steel burn times longer than what I've seen for the Ashford. Makes sense, as it has a larger firebox and very similar efficiency numbers. The more BTUs you put in, the more you can get out.
Kf6- I agree on the thermostatic control point, that feature is quite nice. I haven't seen any reports on people holding back from stuffing their Ideal Steel full, so I surmise their air control doesn't let the stove overfire either. As for convection, I believe the soapstone panels on the Ideal Steel work much the same as the cast iron ones on the Ashford. Could be wrong here, but I think there's a gap between the stove box top and sides to them. I've yet to see one in person.

None of this is meant to bash the Ashford and/ or lift up the IS. I just like cold hard data and facts. Kinda hard to find that stuff in a topic as variable as wood burning. They're both great stoves for sure.

Both stoves are head and shoulders above the rest. I would be proud to own either one. The IS does not have the ability to burn as slowly as the bk, but does have the ability to burn faster. The low burn rate is why most of us like cat stoves, those of us that actually own them.

Take a look at the shape of the IS firebox. Unless you chuck wood in sideways you will never fill it up. Also Woodstock has been known to overestimate firebox size. I'd expect these stoves to have very similar capacity.

 

[kf6hap]

One thought. Due to the fantastic low burn, BK stoves don't need soapstone! 24 hours into the burn, why would they need it? No need to save heat, spread the burn out over time.

 

[WhitePlatinum]

The princess insert is running, I just upgraded my saw today, and the wild cherry isn't splitting with a maul + I am dog tired..... Do you guys know if a splitter will be able to do the job and how should that cherry work out with the princess?

 

[kf6hap]

Depends on the horsepower/tonnage of the splitter. Wedges can work but it gets pretty gnarly at the Y split, I would just chainsaw it. For home use, hydraulic splitters can last many decades.

 

[moresnow]

The princess insert is running, I just upgraded my saw today, and the wild cherry isn't splitting with a maul + I am dog tired..... Do you guys know if a splitter will be able to do the job and how should that cherry work out with the princess?

I've split a pile of Cherry with my Fiskars? It was very easy splitting. It will burn fine in your stove. What saw did you get?