Blaze King Ashford 30 Acrid, Paint Smell

[Chickenman Sam]

Good afternoon,

This is my first posting to this site. Thank you in advance. I had a Blaze King Ashford 30 installed in March of 2022. We did not run it much that season and pretty much only burned pine and almond. In the fall of 2022, when we started using it more, we started getting a very caustic, acrid, chemical, paint smell. The smell is hard to describe, but it does resemble the burn off smell we had for a while after the new stove was installed. We could never figure out where the smell was coming from nor what would cause it to happen. There is never any smoke when the smell happens. On occasion, the smoke alarm goes off, but not often. The smell has happened within five minutes of ignition, while the door is still open to allow air flow, to several hours after the fire has been going and has a nice bed of coals.

This season, starting in October, the smell has been happening more frequently; anywhere from every couple days up to twelve days. I have cleaned the piping, which is a straight run, approximately 16 feet total, several times this season to ensure the smell was not being caused by creosote buildup. I began noticing sometimes prior to the smell coming, the fire would begin to act differently and/or after adding another log to the fire and upon closing the door, with the damper still open, the flame would basically snuff itself out. I had the wood stove store that installed the stove come out and inspect the stove, catalyst and piping on the roof for any issues. They couldn't find any. At the direction of the store owner, I did the dollar bill test around the door and did find a gap by the door handle. It is getting fixed/adjusted soon.

On Christmas eve morning, the smell came back about five minutes after I lit the fire. I let it burn out, cleaned out the ash, went on the roof and cleaned the pipe. Later that evening, I lit another fire, and again, within about five-ten minutes, the smell came back. My wife thought we were having a flue fire, so I ran outside and saw an odd orange glow slowly coming from the inside of the pipe. It was not an active flame, like a flue fire, and once the glow got to the top of the pipe/chimney cap, the fireball died out. I grabbed the hose and started spraying the roof to be safe and when some water hit the pipe, it sizzled as if it had been going for hours. Again, it had only been lit for about ten minutes. The outside piping is insulated double wall. Inside is non-insulated double wall black Duravent. Upon further inspection of the inside piping today, I noticed the Duravent stickers looks charred and are pealing/flaking off. When the woodstove company was out here, they said there was nothing touching the transition box and everything "looked good." I am starting to think this issue has something to do with the piping, but I am out of ideas at this point.

We are only burning well-seasoned wood that has never been sprayed or treated. All wood is tested with a moisture meter and is only used if it reads below 18%. Lately, I have only burned well-seasoned Doug Fir. We only use non-shiny newspaper to start the fire.

There is no rhyme or reason that we can find as to when the smell comes. We are extremely disheartened and aggravated.

I appreciate this site and all the help thus far. Thank you and Happy New Year!

 

[Rickb]

So.....

1. Why is your door open so long? mine is open for around a minute just enough to get the fire going.

2. Those 2 pics look to me like the pipe is upside down? (Im sure others more knowledgeable then me will chime in.) Never mind after looking at it again it looks like the inside of the pipe is inserted into your stove collar.

3. What are your chimney pip temps when your burning and what are they when you get the smell?

4. Just know even 8 years later if I hit a new high temp i get a bit of a smell. Its saved my ass a couple times when i forgot to turn it down.

 

[begreen]

It looks like there may be a DVL appliance adapter connecting the stove at the flue collar. If so, this may be the issue if the adapter is fitting too loosely on the stove making for a leaky fit. I'm not sure about BK stoves, but it is too loose on some others. If that is the case then try fitting the DVL directly to the stove without an adapter to see if that is a much more snug fit.

 

[reaperman1]

Nowhere in your post did you mention a flu thermometer. I highly recommend getting a Auber digital probe (model AT100) or similar. Its the only way you can accurately monitor your stack temp, Id be lost without mine. Especially with a BK stove because they often dont show much flame but can throw off alot of heat when it doesnt look like its even burning. Especially when the cat is in a higher active range.

 

[NHWS]

What is your procedure for disengaging/engaging the cat? If the cat is engaged too soon, you might not be getting much draft, and thus smoke in the room. If it is engaged too late, the flue/chimney temps can get pretty high.

How often do you do hot reloads? Every day / half day / quarter day? What is you usual air setting? Do you normally run the stove hot or low-and-slow?

Are you watching the cat temp probe? What kind of behavior are you seeing?

Strongly second the suggestion from @reaperman1 to get an Auber AT100 or AT200 flue temperature probe.

Keeping the door open for more than a minute or two during a hot reload can sometimes lead to an overfire. Easy to spot that using an Auber probe.

@bholler would know better, but I'm surprised that the outside of a double wall pipe would get so hot. Maybe there's a flaw in the pipe, or an installation problem?

 

[moresnow]

1. Why is your door open so long? mine is open for around a minute just enough to get the fire going.

This ^

I began noticing sometimes prior to the smell coming, the fire would begin to act differently and/or after adding another log to the fire and upon closing the door, with the damper still open, the flame would basically snuff itself out.

Why would you be adding "A" log? This stove should be loaded/started/brought up to temp and engage Cat/burned hot for set time/dialed down to desired burn rate/left alone for many, many hours. Adding random fuel here and there (opening loading door for a log) is not by design. Just curious what your routine has been?

@Chickenman Sam

 

[Chickenman Sam]

So.....

1. Why is your door open so long? mine is open for around a minute just enough to get the fire going.

2. Those 2 pics look to me like the pipe is upside down? (Im sure others more knowledgeable then me will chime in.) Never mind after looking at it again it looks like the inside of the pipe is inserted into your stove collar.

3. What are your chimney pip temps when your burning and what are they when you get the smell?

4. Just know even 8 years later if I hit a new high temp i get a bit of a smell. Its saved my ass a couple times when i forgot to turn it down.

Thank you for the suggestions. The door is open long enough to get the fire going, then it gets shut. I appreciate you letting me know about the smell after so many years.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

It looks like there may be a DVL appliance adapter connecting the stove at the flue collar. If so, this may be the issue if the adapter is fitting too loosely on the stove making for a leaky fit. I'm not sure about BK stoves, but it is too loose on some others. If that is the case then try fitting the DVL directly to the stove without an adapter to see if that is a much more snug fit.

Thank you for the response. I tried moving it and it moves about 1/4 inch. How much movement is too much?

 

[Chickenman Sam]

Nowhere in your post did you mention a flu thermometer. I highly recommend getting a Auber digital probe (model AT100) or similar. Its the only way you can accurately monitor your stack temp, Id be lost without mine. Especially with a BK stove because they often dont show much flame but can throw off alot of heat when it doesnt look like its even burning. Especially when the cat is in a higher active range.

I am going to order one. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

What is your procedure for disengaging/engaging the cat? If the cat is engaged too soon, you might not be getting much draft, and thus smoke in the room. If it is engaged too late, the flue/chimney temps can get pretty high.

How often do you do hot reloads? Every day / half day / quarter day? What is you usual air setting? Do you normally run the stove hot or low-and-slow?

Are you watching the cat temp probe? What kind of behavior are you seeing?

Strongly second the suggestion from @reaperman1 to get an Auber AT100 or AT200 flue temperature probe.

Keeping the door open for more than a minute or two during a hot reload can sometimes lead to an overfire. Easy to spot that using an Auber probe.

@bholler would know better, but I'm surprised that the outside of a double wall pipe would get so hot. Maybe there's a flaw in the pipe, or an installation problem?

Thank you for the response. I engage the cat once the thermometer is in the active range, never before. We run the stove hot. I watch the cat temp probe religiously. I never let it get too hot, because we have never needed it that hot for our house. While putting the wood in after the stove is hot, I don't leave the door open longer then necessary. I am going to order the flue thermometer. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

This ^


Why would you be adding "A" log? This stove should be loaded/started/brought up to temp and engage Cat/burned hot for set time/dialed down to desired burn rate/left alone for many, many hours. Adding random fuel here and there (opening loading door for a log) is not by design. Just curious what your routine has been?

@Chickenman Sam

Thank you for the response. Our routine is light the fire, keep the door open for a short time while the fire gets going, close the door, wait for the stove thermometer to get into the active range, close the damper, and let the wood burn. Once the stove needs more wood, I add more.

 

[begreen]

Thank you for the response. I tried moving it and it moves about 1/4 inch. How much movement is too much?

There should be no movement. It should be rock solid and actually screwed into place.

 

[moresnow]

Thank you for the response. Our routine is light the fire, keep the door open for a short time while the fire gets going, close the door, wait for the stove thermometer to get into the active range, close the damper, and let the wood burn. Once the stove needs more wood, I add more.

Sooo? Are you not closing the bypass to engage the Cat? Are you not letting the stove burn at a high rate for 20 ish minutes before turning down the thermostat position?

In a nutshell are you following the operator's manual completely? Imperative for correct operation/performance. Your operation description is confusing as it does not follow correct procedure at all.

Understand we are trying to help here. No intention of sounding critical.

 

[NHWS]

Burning PNW softwoods at wide open air, I get between 6 to 8 hours of useful room heat depending on how careful my wood tetris was, plus another 8+ hours of coals sufficient for a hot reload. AFAIK, your Ashford and my Princess have about the same size firebox. The stoves aren't identical, but the results should be reasonably similar. Adding one split makes it sound like you are doing much more frequent reloads.

Re inspection by the store that sold the stove: you might want to have the behavior diagnosed by a qualified independent sweep.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

There should be no movement. It should be rock solid and actually screwed into place.

👍 thank you. Could that be the cause of the bad smell?

 

[NHWS]

My current hot reload procedure:

1) Open the air all the way and disengage the cat. There is some disagreement in these forums about the need to open the air.

2) Wait 3 to 5 minutes for the firebox to stabilize. Get a selection of splits ready.

3) When the Auber flue probe shows a stable temp, open the door, and tetris the splits in. Most of the time the door can be closed immediately, typically a minute or two after opening it. If adding the splits significantly reduced the fire, I might sometimes leave the door slightly ajar until the fire is established, similar to waiting to establish the fire on a cold start.

4) When the Auber shows around 500 dF to 600 dF, and assuming the cat probe is in the active range, engage the cat. Usually less than 5 minutes, depending on the ember bed. If the flue temp starts climbing fast 1) make sure the door is closed; 2) if the cat gauge is active or close to active, engage the cat (usually drops the flue temp by 50 dF to 75 dF); and 3) if that doesn't get the flue temp to settle down, reduce the air. Do whatever steps need to be done to keep the flue under 1000 dF, and preferably somewhat lower.

5) Set a timer for 15 minutes. When it goes off, start reducing the air towards where I want it to be. Usually I look outside to make sure there is little or no visible smoke. If there is, leave the air up for a while longer before starting to reduce it.

Haven't read the manual for a few months, but I think this is pretty close to what it recommends. My times are not quite the same. The manual does not allow for Auber probes, and is not written specifically for PNW softwoods.

The cat probe is measuring the temp that is important for engaging the cat, but it is very slow to react. The Auber is measuring a proxy for the cat temp, not the cat temp itself, but it is much faster, so I tend to depend more on it.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

My current hot reload procedure:

1) Open the air all the way and disengage the cat. There is some disagreement in these forums about the need to open the air.

2) Wait 3 to 5 minutes for the firebox to stabilize. Get a selection of splits ready.

3) When the Auber flue probe shows a stable temp, open the door, and tetris the splits in. Most of the time the door can be closed immediately, typically a minute or two after opening it. If adding the splits significantly reduced the fire, I might sometimes leave the door slightly ajar until the fire is established, similar to waiting to establish the fire on a cold start.

4) When the Auber shows around 500 dF to 600 dF, and assuming the cat probe is in the active range, engage the cat. Usually less than 5 minutes, depending on the ember bed. If the flue temp starts climbing fast 1) make sure the door is closed; 2) if the cat gauge is active or close to active, engage the cat (usually drops the flue temp by 50 dF to 75 dF); and 3) if that doesn't get the flue temp to settle down, reduce the air. Do whatever steps need to be done to keep the flue under 1000 dF, and preferably somewhat lower.

5) Set a timer for 15 minutes. When it goes off, start reducing the air towards where I want it to be. Usually I look outside to make sure there is little or no visible smoke. If there is, leave the air up for a while longer before starting to reduce it.

Haven't read the manual for a few months, but I think this is pretty close to what it recommends. My times are not quite the same. The manual does not allow for Auber probes, and is not written specifically for PNW softwoods.

The cat probe is measuring the temp that is important for engaging the cat, but it is very slow to react. The Auber is measuring a proxy for the cat temp, not the cat temp itself, but it is much faster, so I tend to depend more on it.

Fantastic. Thank you!

 

[begreen]

👍 thank you. Could that be the cause of the bad smell?

Possibly. If the fit is sloppy at the flue collar, air can dilute the draft. This would also affect the way the stove starts and burns.

 

[reaperman1]

Im glad to see you have a probe thermometer on the way. On my reloads, if I followed the instructions by waiting 10 to 20 minutes until all of the wood is charred my flu temps would easily be well over 1000 degrees. In fact once I see flames I generally only have a couple of minutes and my stack temps are already 600~700 degrees. Something I would never be able to guess properly without a probe thermometer. Plus the cat thermometer on my BK is always within the active range unless the stove is almost completely out. So I never leave the bypass open after reloading. I just leave the air control knob wide open until my stack temps reach the 600 or so range, then dial back the air gradually. i still need to monitor the stack temps as I dial the air back because they will still increase until the flames settle.

 

[Highbeam]

In your first post you said the door gasket is leaking. Get that properly fixed and see what happens. Door leaks can cause stink. The ashford door seal has caused similar issues.

I have the identical interior flue setup and the stove adapter, that little 4”
Section, is required on my bk princess. Installing it takes an installer that pays attention to get it properly seated so it doesn’t move. No screws connecting mine to the stove because you my installer decided it would just crush the double wall and the inspector agreed. The adapter should be a tight fit that doesn’t wiggle.

I’m thinking you’re running your stove too hot. The thermostat won’t prevent overheating if you’re leaving the door open or if the door gasket is compromised. I’ve run my duravent double wall chimney well over 1250 and the stickers look like new.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

I wanted to give an update on the smell and what we found. I had the company that installed the stove come out and tear the entire stove and piping apart to look for ANYTHING out of the ordinary. When the workers removed the metal housing that covers the thermostat, they found a high heat silicone that is used from the factory was charred and crispy. They called their contact at Blaze King and were told they had never heard of that specific silicone in that specific location charring. Blaze King instructed the installers to scrape all the old silicone off and use something different. This was three weeks ago, and we have not had any issues. We had two days where there was a faint smell that lasted momentarily, most likely some sort of left over residue.

I would like to thank all of you again for your help and advice. I hope this may help someone in the future if they experience something similar.

 

[begreen]

I wanted to give an update on the smell and what we found. I had the company that installed the stove come out and tear the entire stove and piping apart to look for ANYTHING out of the ordinary. When the workers removed the metal housing that covers the thermostat, they found a high heat silicone that is used from the factory was charred and crispy. They called their contact at Blaze King and were told they had never heard of that specific silicone in that specific location charring. Blaze King instructed the installers to scrape all the old silicone off and use something different. This was three weeks ago, and we have not had any issues. We had two days where there was a faint smell that lasted momentarily, most likely some sort of left over residue.

I would like to thank all of you again for your help and advice. I hope this may help someone in the future if they experience something similar.

Thanks so much for the followup. That is an odd one. So glad your dealer went the extra miles to solve the problem.

 

[Chickenman Sam]

Thanks so much for the followup. That is an odd one. So glad your dealer went the extra miles to solve the problem.

At your suggestion, I also had them adjust the piping at the flu collar. Thank you for that.