Drying in 4-row stacks

maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,534
Nova Scotia
My thought is, they are also exposed to open air and sheltered by the roof. So should last a long time. As long as they are off the ground at the bottom. No doubt PT would last longer though.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Good argument, you might be right, but the world will never know! I submitted the lumber order last night. Base and uprights are PT, everything overhead is fir.
 

Poindexter

Minister of Fire
Jun 28, 2014
2,227
Fairbanks, Alaska
Chemicals in pressure treated lumber are poisonous to catalytic combustors.

Been in my shop getting ready for that four letter word that stats with an S, sorry for late entry. Wood that has good airflow on all sides should be able to get wet and dry out and get wet and dry out through several hundred cycles. Think shaker shed or Old Ship Church in Hingham, Mass.

For mine I did ground contact PT for the floor framing, then a double layer of plastic, then regular plywood flooring.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
I suspect you have less an issue with wood boring insects than we do down here, Poindexter. Even my white oak pallets succumb after just five years as wood cribs, there’s no way framing lumber would give me the kind of lifetime I need.

I went non-PT for everything overhead, which I know means I’ll be battling the carpenter bees every summer. But going non-PT on those components saves me a few $100’s, a few hundred pounds, makes the roof sheathing easier (one man operation), and means I can use some of the thousands of regular iridite roofing nails I already have.
 

mar13

Feeling the Heat
Nov 5, 2018
274
California redwood coast
"But going non-PT on those components saves me a few $100’s, a few hundred pounds, makes the roof sheathing easier "

I always think of wet vs dry wood weights with firewood, but I never thought of applying that thought to PT wood. Learn something new every day... https://roofonline.com/weight-of-pressure-treated-lumber
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
"But going non-PT on those components saves me a few $100’s, a few hundred pounds, makes the roof sheathing easier "

I always think of wet vs dry wood weights with firewood, but I never thought of applying that thought to PT wood. Learn something new every day... https://roofonline.com/weight-of-pressure-treated-lumber
Yeah. These lumber racks will weight roughly 3200 lb. when first built, and I'll be loading them up with another 20,000 lb. of oak. That'll make a dent in the earth, sitting there for three years, if anything can.

By the time the firewood and the racks are dried, we'll be down from 23,000 lb. to roughly 16,000 lb.
 

Sawset

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2015
980
Palmyra, WI
Yeah. These lumber racks will weight roughly 3200 lb. when first built, and I'll be loading them up with another 20,000 lb. of oak. That'll make a dent in the earth, sitting there for three years, if anything can.

By the time the firewood and the racks are dried, we'll be down from 23,000 lb. to roughly 16,000 lb.
Lay down a dozen 8x16 patio pavers under each one. I built a good sized shed, 14x20, built on a set of 8x8 beams, underlain with patio blocks as footings, with a deep gravel base. It's not sinking or floating away, plenty of frost and rain.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
I'm on the edge of wetlands and violating my property line set backs, so likely no gravel base here. But I do plan to put fifteen 16" round pavers under each unit. That's 7 psi initial load, if I remember my math right. I haven't checked as to whether that's high or low for my soil conditions, tho.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Update, according to [1], it appears I should be okay. I have to admit, I haven't don't much research to understand what this means, and I'm not a structural engineer, but a quick glance at this table indicates my anticipated loading is only half of the softest soil type listed. I'm at 23,000 lb / (15 x 1.4 sq.ft.) = 1100 lb/sq.ft.

I'm on the edge of wetlands, so our soil is likely toward the bottom of that list.

Soil Bearing Capacities
Class of MaterialsLoad-Bearing Pressure
(pounds per square foot)
Crystalline bedrock
12,000​
Sedimentary rock
6,000​
Sandy gravel or gravel
5,000​
Sand, silty sand, clayey sand, silty gravel, and clayey gravel
3,000​
Clay, sandy clay, silty clay, and clayey silt
2,000​
Source: Table 401.4.1; CABO One- and Two- Family Dwelling Code; 1995.

[1] - https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/footing_fundamentals/why_soils_matter.htm
 

Sawset

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2015
980
Palmyra, WI
Not that your probably too worried about things sinking out of sight, but a couple observations:
Son inlaw has several campgrounds along the fox river. Central Wisconsin, all deep sand and silt, near flood planes. When I said I was pouring footings for the shed here, he mentioned that in 50yrs, they hadn't poured a footing yet for a non permanent structure. Cabins, trailers, decks etc, 100s. Got me thinking. The worst that can happen is frost heaves, saturated soil subsides, the beams below even the load, in the end it evens out back to square one.
There are buildings down the road from here that were built 100 years ago. Been driving by them long time, yet just now realized they were built on shallow piers with beams. They look no worse for wear as far as straight and level. Storage sheds doing what they do.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Exactly. I’m doing this on “shallow piers” as well, essentially 16” round piers poured on grade, no digging.
 
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johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
2,966
Eastern Ontario
I live in Eastern Ontario Canada. We have built 5 15 X 25
sheads the foundation we use is a 30 x30 2 ft. deep hole
filled with crushed stone and a 24-inch paver set on top.
Our frost line normally is 4 Ft. never had a frost heave
in all the sheds we have built
 

mar13

Feeling the Heat
Nov 5, 2018
274
California redwood coast
Is this shed production still in progress? Once done, I'd enjoy seeing the pictures and what your ultimate (required) lumber order was. One of these summers, it'll be my turn to build one.
 

JohnDolz

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2015
536
Burlington, CT
I’ve been stacking in 2-row formation for, well.. forever. It has always dried well, but taken up too much space for my 30 cords. It would also not favor storing under a roof, which is my latest plan.

View attachment 247387

As you can see, I have a lot of empty racks right now, so it’s my chance to reconfigure. I have 20 cords in logs staged to be processed this fall.

I’m thinking of building six 6’W x 16’L sheds, which are accessible from both sides, and would allow me to stack in quadruple row form with my 18” length splits down the length of each shed. In other words, four 18” wide rows of 16’ length each.

I’m doing all dense hardwoods, most often red oak, so drying is a concern. Who has experience with drying wood this way? Will 2-3 summers under roof in four rows still get the job done?
Just curious, what are you heating that requires 30 cord or is it multiple years worth? I was thinking 30 face cord but based on you photo it would appear 30 full cord - that's a lot of wood! I was actually up to 25 or so cord when my neighbor put in a pool:).
 

billb3

Minister of Fire
Dec 14, 2007
4,674
SE Mass
I suspect you have less an issue with wood boring insects than we do down here, Poindexter. Even my white oak pallets succumb after just five years as wood cribs, there’s no way framing lumber would give me the kind of lifetime I need.

I went non-PT for everything overhead, which I know means I’ll be battling the carpenter bees every summer. But going non-PT on those components saves me a few $100’s, a few hundred pounds, makes the roof sheathing easier (one man operation), and means I can use some of the thousands of regular iridite roofing nails I already have.
Woodlife Coppercoat Green Water based wood preservative - 1 gallon
Is absorbed by well seasoned wood better than the fresh kiln dried lumber you'll likely purchase.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Is this shed production still in progress? Once done, I'd enjoy seeing the pictures and what your ultimate (required) lumber order was. One of these summers, it'll be my turn to build one.
Yeah, I framed it up pretty quickly, but then contractors I had been awaiting on two other house projects finally came around, which pulled me away from this. One is now done, got another few days working with the second, and then I’ll be back on this. Just need to get roof sheathing and shingles on it.

Will try to post a photo if I can get one tonight, but we’re supposed to see very heavy rain this afternoon and tonight, so it may be another day or two. Here’s an older photo mid-framing, to give you an idea how it looks.



The old boat axle is part of my plan to move it to it’s final location. I’ll be building six of these, with the intention of using two per year.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Just curious, what are you heating that requires 30 cord or is it multiple years worth? I was thinking 30 face cord but based on you photo it would appear 30 full cord - that's a lot of wood! I was actually up to 25 or so cord when my neighbor put in a pool:).
I’m only using 10 cords per year, 30 cords gives me room to store 3 years’ worth of wood under roof. I’m burning a lot of red oak, and I really do try to season all of it for 3 summers before using.
 
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Actually, that just settled it, for me. I can do 2 rows + pallet + 2 rows, which will give me good airflow up the center of the stack.

Now we just need to debate the orientation of the pallets. >>
2x4s vertical to allow unobstructed air flow.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
How do you source 30 cords of red oak?!
Geez... never been a problem, here. We just had over 200 cords of white oak and hickory blow down at my church this summer. Prior to that, I was dragging out red oak-blow down from Hurricane Sandy, from a friend’s property a few towns over. Now he has a few dozen large ash trees ready to come down, thanks to EAB. I can get a full cord out of the trunk of most of his ash trees, without even touching branch wood.
 

jaoneill

Feeling the Heat
Since I’ll be stacking on the base of these portable sheds, to keep a hurricane or winter storm from taking them away, I want them to be well-supported. Ground is not presently level, but could be easily leveled with 2 yards = 16’ x 6’ x 6” + perimeter of crushed stone beneath each.

Only remaining question is keeping a base that deep of gravel in place, but I suspect 3/4” modified may compact well enough to mostly hold together. If not, I need to think about a form or wire.
Use #2 clean crushed stone; taper the perimeter down to grade and tamp it in place, you'll be amazed how stable it will be and it will avoid having a "step" to trip you up every ime you turn around unexpectedly.
 
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jaoneill

Feeling the Heat
Thanks, guys. I think we all agree, treated below, non-treated above.

Those uprights are up for debate. My thinking was to go PT, because I want them to last 20+ years, they are exposed to weather, and in contact with potentially-infested wood. But you’re free to tell me I’m wrong!
I would use the standard lumber yard .40 PT for the uprights but you should know that that crap is not rated for ground contact. FWIW, if it were me and I was looking for longevity, .60 foundation grade would be a no brainer for the ground contact stuff; the .40 won't last 10 years on the ground.
 
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FIDLER

Member
Jan 5, 2014
8
Pennsylvania
Geez... never been a problem, here. We just had over 200 cords of white oak and hickory blow down at my church this summer. Prior to that, I was dragging out red oak-blow down from Hurricane Sandy, from a friend’s property a few towns over. Now he has a few dozen large ash trees ready to come down, thanks to EAB. I can get a full cord out of the trunk of most of his ash trees, without even touching branch wood.
Wow. That’s either A LOT of trees or HUGE trees. With the winds we are having right now you’ll probably be seeing some more come down!
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Wow. That’s either A LOT of trees or HUGE trees. With the winds we are having right now you’ll probably be seeing some more come down!
It was a lot of huge trees. [emoji3] This is the same property from which I took a 60” diameter downed white oak after Sandy. There were a lot of trees in the 24”+ range, this time.

A ship builder took the white oak, gave us about $5k for the privilege to harvest what blew down. He sent in a logging company, who took a full six days to load up what he was taking. Another church member and I split half the hickory, spending about two days per week there all summer, and the rest just got piled up for another day.