Envi Blocks will void my stove warranty!

[isipwater]

Hi,

My local stove shop and reps from both Travis Industries (Lopi, Avalon) and Pacific Energy have all told me that using any compressed wood bricks/logs will void my new stove warranty.

My local stove shop installer told me that burning one compressed log/block is ok but anymore than that will over fire the stove. He said that compressed logs burn fine in fireplaces and inserts but not wood stoves.

I am about to get a Lopi Endeavor installed (my first wood stove) and am having trouble getting seasoned wood. I thought I fixed the problem when I ordered two pallets of Envi blocks. Now I am thinking of canceling the order as not to void the 7 year Lopi warranty.

There are many different types/quality of compressed wood products. Surely some of them must burn appropriately in a Lopi or PE stoves. Should I cancel my Envi block order? I have until tomorrow morning to cancel the order!!

 

[USMC80]

you can use the Envi blocks to assist less seasoned wood that you have. I would never burn just envy blocks as you will probably overfire

 

[jeff_t]

If you don't tell, will anyone know? Don't overfire it. Those blocks are really dry, and can offgas really quickly. One or two in a load can supplement some not so dry wood, but I surely wouldn't burn a full load.

 

[isipwater]

If you don't tell, will anyone know? Don't overfire it. Those blocks are really dry, and can offgas really quickly. One or two in a load can supplement some not so dry wood, but I surely wouldn't burn a full load.

Yes, I currently have oak that is 37% moisture. I was planning on mixing the Envi blocks with that.

 

[begreen]

Burned correctly I found overfiring was not an issue with BioBricks. I burned up to 13 at a time per instructions in a Castine with no problem. They need to be loaded and packed correctly. However, how many people read directions these days is a concern. I also burned and liked the highly compressed logs from Northern Idaho Energy Logs and from Prest-Logs from Homefire. If you respect the product and read the instructions, they are a nice heating fuel. I would recommend avoiding cheap imitations (low compressed fuel).

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/biobricks/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/Northern_Idaho_Energy_Logs/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/home-fire-prest-logs/

 

[isipwater]

Yes, I would do a mix, but these stove companies should void warranties for over firing not because I use Envi blocks! Can't over firing also happen with cord wood as well?

 

[isipwater]

Burned correctly I found overfiring is not an issue with BioBricks. I burned up to 13 at a time per instructions in a Castine with no problem. However, how many people read directions these days is a concern. I also burned and liked the highly compressed logs from Northern Idaho Energy Logs and from Prest-Logs from Homefire. If you respect the product and read the instructions, they are a nice heating fuel. I would recommend avoiding cheap imitations (low compressed fuel)

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/biobricks/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/Northern_Idaho_Energy_Logs/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/home-fire-prest-logs/

What is a castine?

 

[begreen]

Yes, I currently have oak that is 37% moisture. I was planning on mixing the Envi blocks with that.

Have you resplit the oak? That is very wet wood still and shouldn't be burned this year. Maybe order some ash, beech or maple for this year and save the oak?

Can't over firing also happen with cord wood as well?

Yes it can. As a new burner I would err on the side of caution and get some dry wood if possible.

 

[begreen]

What is a castine?

Jotul F400

 

[isipwater]

Were you mixing the bricks with cord wood? This is in a stove right? Why would my experienced stove installer say two bricks will over fire and dirty the chimney?

 

[isipwater]

Have you resplit the oak? That is very wet wood still and shouldn't be burned this year. Maybe order some ash, beech or maple for this year and save the oak?

I am waiting for my back ordered Fiskar wood spliter from amazon, due to arrive this week and then I will get to work. It is very hard for me to get truly seasoned hardwood at a decent price. Everyone has wet wood to sell me though.

 

[maple1]

Were you mixing the bricks with cord wood? This is in a stove right? Why would my experienced stove installer say two bricks will over fire and dirty the chimney?

Over-fires dirty chimneys?

That is sounding backwards to me.

 

[joescho]

If you don't tell, will anyone know? Don't overfire it. Those blocks are really dry, and can offgas really quickly. One or two in a load can supplement some not so dry wood, but I surely wouldn't burn a full load.

I bought 2 bags one year for my parents with a traditional fireplace. They do get pretty hot.

 

[begreen]

I am waiting for my back ordered Fiskar wood spliter from amazon, due to arrive this week and then I will get to work. It is very hard for me to get truly seasoned hardwood at a decent price. Everyone has wet wood to sell me though.

Screw trying to get a decent price this season. Get decent dry wood from a reputable wood company and you will have a much better burning experience.

 

[Delta-T]

Burned correctly I found overfiring was not an issue with BioBricks. I burned up to 13 at a time per instructions in a Castine with no problem. They need to be loaded and packed correctly. However, how many people read directions these days is a concern.

agreed, I have run similar product in a Harman Oakleaf for a few years now..no problems. Though I've never put in 13....holy hottness...and 47 hours of burntime.

 

[Jags]

Over-fires dirty chimneys?

That is sounding backwards to me.

It sounds quite contrary to normal thought but can be true if all the stars align properly. If the rate of off gassing exceeds the ability for the tubes or cat to consume them, they have no where else to go but up the stack.

 

[begreen]

agreed, I have run similar product in a Harman Oakleaf for a few years now..no problems. Though I've never put in 13....holy hottness...and 47 hours of burntime.

The BioBricks don't all burn at once when packed in with no air gaps. If you read the wiki article you will see the temps the stove burned at were reasonable and far from overfiring at 650F max. The fire only lasted about 6 hrs.
http://originalbiobricks.com/howtoburn

I'm not sure how Envi blocks would burn in the same test. Their instructions are a bit less specific.

 

[relay]

FYI, I am relativly new to the wood stove arena but I am a fast learner and deep researcher

IMHO, if you learn how to load and use the compressed wood products, the danger of overfiring is the same as with cord wood.
Load the stove to reduce the exposed surface of the compressed products and you have an easily duplicatable burn every time, unlike with cord wood.
With cord wood, sometimes in the mornings I still have a 400 degree stove with 20% material left and other mornings, a cool stove.
That's the main reason I like the compressed products.
Inside of 1 month I learned EXACLY how many bricks to put in the stove based on the outside temperature, inside temperature and desired heat.

With the Bio Bricks, I would load anywhere between 12 - 18 for night loads and 6 - 12 for day loads. A 350 - 400 degree stove is perfect as you really don't need to wait for the BioBricks to get going. The existing coals and temps will take care of that for you. The bigger issue is getting the blocks in there tightly packed together which is hard to do mixing with wood coals. Much easier if exclusivly compressed products.
With a colder stove comes the danger. You REALLY have to let the compressed products get good and going before you damper down or you will kill the burn. hence the tendency to go off to other things and come back 45 minutes later to a 700+ degree stove.

I don't have access to much free wood and scrounging in my area is tough, especially since I have small pickup that can't handle much. Compressed wood products and firewood are close to the same prices.
IMHO, I see nothing but benefits to the compressed products. Very little mess, no bugs, 1/3 space requirements, no mess in the driveway, no splitter to buy (although I did buy one as I expected to harvest from my camp in Maine but can't do that now with the "no transport across state line regulations to curtail the bugs.), no crappy loads of firewood that were sold as dry only to be visably rotten as you pull in your driveway!

For me, the compressed products are so consistant that if i have to buy something, it will always be compressed product if the prices are close.

Hope this helps....

 

[relay]

BTW, I believe a manufacturer could solve most of the downfalls and potential of overfire with compressed wood products by making a larger product that would not require tight stacking to reduce to exposed surface area.
I believe a 20lb block would be about the perfect size. As I understand it though, a machine capable of compressing something that large would be prohibitavly expensive and probably will not happen. At least, that was the comments I received when I inquired about this previously.

 

[Delta-T]

The BioBricks don't all burn at once when packed in with no air gaps. If you read the wiki article you will see the temps the stove burned at were reasonable and far from overfiring at 650F max. The fire only lasted about 6 hrs.
http://originalbiobricks.com/howtoburn

I'm not sure how Envi blocks would burn in the same test. Their instructions are a bit less specific.

I use the Orford compressed log..is 2.2lb (1kg) per log ~18k btu/log. I put in as many as five, tightly packed, and gotten 6+ hrs in the leaf, which is smallish in size. I haven't watched the temps too closely, but def not near overfire. granted, it shares heating duties with some of the pellet stoves, so we don't "need" it to do a lot of work. I will do some better experiments this coming season. (the packaging from Orford say no more than 3 logs at a time, we stuck with that for a while and worked up to the 5...cuz, you know, stove shop guys+fire=trouble).

 

[begreen]

Looks like the Orford Logs are actually bricks. Is that right?

 

[Delta-T]

they're 2.5"hx2.5"dx11"long...is somewhere between a log and a brick I guess. they're squared off and stack nicely.

 

[begreen]

Not a blog or a lick, it's a "Brog"!

 

[Grisu]

Get a stove or IR thermometer; that is the only way to know whether you are overfiring the stove or (as in my case) burn efficiently.

 

[Heatsource]

Alot of my customers use energy logs, haven't noticed particular overfiring symptoms while doing annual cleanings/ and the chimneys seem to stay cleaner than with cordwood too