My Jotul is weak

[stoveliker]

Help me follow the "open door" theory. Is it that the house might be TOO tight and not enough air is getting to the unit ?
Thanks IA

Yes, if the home is too tight, air flow thru the stove won't be enough, leading to lackluster fires.
(and possible smoke roll out).
Testing with a window cracked can provide some indication as to whether that is the case. (Of course it's not a good permanent solution.)

 

[begreen]

Help me follow the "open door" theory. Is it that the house might be TOO tight and not enough air is getting to the unit ?
Thanks IA

Yes, that's the hypothesis. Try a nearby window on the same floor, a 1/2" opening should suffice for this test.

 

[begreen]

Where does one source the block off plate or is t something we make custom ?

We have a good article on this.

Resource icon

Block-off plate construction

Aug 3, 2022

Make a damper sealing block-off plate

• webfish
• How to Build, Install, Operate, Etc.

and

Chimney info Thread 'MAKING A SHEET METAL BLOCK-OFF PLATE FOR A MASONRY FIREPLACE'

Sep 23, 2015

Hint #1 The plate does not fit it up at the damper area, but lower than that - about 2” above the fireplace opening…this has many advantages….


Materials needed
Sheet metal - 24 or 26 gauge galvanized metal is ideal for this application - available at many plumbing and heating supply houses
Masonry or cut nails - approx 1.5”
Silicone sealant
Furnace Cement


First, remove the fireplace damper. This usually involves removing a cotter pin and lifting the damper out. Store damper in a safe place in case you ever want to restore the fireplace to original.

Now, study the picture...

• webfish
• block-off plate
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Articles

and

Make a damper sealing block-off plate

How to make a block-off plate A block-off plate is particularly helpful with inserts installed in fireplace on exterior walls with exterior chimneys. Without one, the flue liner (which should be insulated) and the stove will try to heat the mass of masonry that is exposed to the outdoors...

www.hearth.com

 

[Angelo C]

The 1/2" window opening will test whether the insert is starving for combustion air. Try with the air control about midway to 75% closed.

Didn’t change the flame front like adjusting the airflow control does. Seems to be a happy medium though. I’ve only run full open or choked off so far.
Temp with an infrared gun says 380* with a mix of firewood and bricks.
I’ll let this load burn through then fill with only bricks and see if any temp difference

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I'm hoping there is a solution. But if two year old oak or firebricks is not then there really isn't a practical use for this unit. The expense of kiln dried lumber which would be the only practical way of sourcing "seasoned" kinda negates any efficient use. Few of us can season 4-5 cords for 4-5 years space wise.

This is true. I can only store about 8 cords total which maxes out my space. I try to stay to woods that season fairly quick.
It doesn’t help you immediately but I’ve been finding the cord of pine I have been burning up until now for this season has been surprisingly good. Fast drying time too

 

[Orion 4343]

Didn’t change the flame front like adjusting the airflow control does. Seems to be a happy medium though. I’ve only run full open or choked off so far.
Temp with an infrared gun says 380* with a mix of firewood and bricks.
I’ll let this load burn through then fill with only bricks and see if any temp difference

That temperature seems pretty low. I would expect 650 degrees from a full load. At 380, im not surprised its barely heating your room.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Didn’t change the flame front like adjusting the airflow control does. Seems to be a happy medium though. I’ve only run full open or choked off so far.
Temp with an infrared gun says 380* with a mix of firewood and bricks.
I’ll let this load burn through then fill with only bricks and see if any temp difference

Although my Rockland is the older version, I’d imagine the basics are the same. I’ve used a IR thermometer in the past and it didn’t work well. It did not get a good read of the actual stovetop and instead picked up on the surround. I absolutely would not go by those IR temps. A stovetop thermometer from amazon will get to there before the weekend and they are not too expensive. This is where I put the stovetop thermometer seen in the pic below. For reference, I’m burning about a half load of pine with a little under half closed. The temp is about 675.

 

[Angelo C]

Tough to see, but it looks only half full.
Can't see how secondaries are either.

Question
So far in my limited experience, I noticed I get better "burns" with spacing the firewood as opposed to jamming a full load into every available space. I've assumed "Jamming" would increase burn times but hasn't increased "temps"
Am I miss reading this ?

 

[Orion 4343]

Question
So far in my limited experience, I noticed I get better "burns" with spacing the firewood as opposed to jamming a full load into every available space. I've assumed "Jamming" would increase burn times but hasn't increased "temps"
Am I miss reading this ?

It's a balance. There needs to be some space, but you don't want to make a log cabin either. How are you starting your initial fire. Have you tried a top down fire?

 

[MRD1985]

This screams airflow either in or out. Does opening a window help at all?

If it won’t burn with sawdust logs it’s likely not the fuel, although it is still worth checking to see exactly what you’re dealing with moisture wise.

Maybe I missed it, but could you post a picture of your chimney setup with the cap?

 

[bigealta]

For your previous question, yes air gaps/ spacing can help.
Try loading your stove like this and see if it helps. It should help.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Did you try building like this? You could put 2 or 3 sawdust bricks on the bottom like in the pic and your oak and ash on the top rows. This gives great airflow with a full load, and will answer your question of if your jotul stove can burn well and rip as it sits now.

 

[stoveliker]

Question
So far in my limited experience, I noticed I get better "burns" with spacing the firewood as opposed to jamming a full load into every available space. I've assumed "Jamming" would increase burn times but hasn't increased "temps"
Am I miss reading this ?

My experience is with two different stoves, so that may or may not apply.

However, I think the temperature not increasing is not due today the wood packing. You should be able to load it stuffed and get high temps. That's how stoves run. Fill the tank and then control the burn (rate and temperature, though these are of course related) with the air setting.

The counterintuitive thing is that the highest temperature is often reached (with tube stoves) with the lowest air setting.

 

[bigealta]

My experience is with two different stoves, so that may or may not apply.

However, I think the temperature not increasing is not due today the wood packing. You should be able to load it stuffed and get high temps. That's how stoves run. Fill the tank and then control the burn (rate and temperature, though these are of course related) with the air setting.

The counterintuitive thing is that the highest temperature is often reached (with tube stoves) with the lowest air setting.

That is not my experience with my jotul f400. The loose stack as in my youtube post burns much faster, hotter, and easier than a tightly packed stove. This is even more important if the wood is at all marginal.

As a test for this situation trying it will give the OP answers.

 

[stoveliker]

I remember seeing PE stoves stuffed and running well.

But again, my experience is not with Jotuls so I defer here

 

[bigealta]

Yeah i'd say it is actually a huge difference from stacked as shown vs very tight stack in the f400.
It's just much easier to get it to clean and fast and hot burn with good secondary burn action.

And especially in this case where there are a number of unresolved questions, this test burn will provide some answers .

 

[stoveliker]

Of course it'll be hot faster. But for a long, cruising burn,.do you need to load it like this?
That'd suck, as apparently you then can't fully use the firebox volume as you need to keep empty spaces... To me that'd be poor design...

 

[Angelo C]

It's a balance. There needs to be some space, but you don't want to make a log cabin either. How are you starting your initial fire. Have you tried a top down fire?

I just start a “kindling” fire then toss a few logs on or some firebricks. I have piles of kindling as my neighbors prefer it for quick pit fires. I split a lot of firewood. Usually get about a wheelbarrow full of of “splitter trash” for every 2 cords.

 

[MRD1985]

I just start a “kindling” fire then toss a few logs on or some firebricks. I have piles of kindling as my neighbors prefer it for quick pit fires. I split a lot of firewood. Usually get about a wheelbarrow full of of “splitter trash” for every 2 cords.

Load the stove full and stack kindling on the top of your stack. Light it with fire starters of choice and see what it does.

 

[Angelo C]

This screams airflow either in or out. Does opening a window help at all?

If it won’t burn with sawdust logs it’s likely not the fuel, although it is still worth checking to see exactly what you’re dealing with moisture wise.

Maybe I missed it, but could you post a picture of your chimney setup with the cap?

Open door didn’t change anything noticeable. I don’t see a change in flame front like when you open the vent where the flame dances and gets all happy like.

 

[Angelo C]

Did you try building like this? You could put 2 or 3 sawdust bricks on the bottom like in the pic and your oak and ash on the top rows. This gives great airflow with a full load, and will answer your question of if your jotul stove can burn well and rip as it sits now.

That’s basically how I load but I don’t have many 14” splits that allow a N/S loading. I sometimes use the bricks and angle the logs in. I messed up in not getting a box/unit big enough to load 17” N/S….which would really reduce my ash fight

 

[Angelo C]

Load the stove full and stack kindling on the top of your stack. Light it with fire starters of choice and see what it does.

Walk me through the theory with this? Is it heating up the Cat/tubes sooner because the flame is closer to the secondary ?

 

[Angelo C]

The only time I light a fire is every three days after I clean out the ashes. The ash is usually warm enough to relight the logs if I leave the door cracked a bit.

 

[stoveliker]

The only time I light a fire is every three days after I clean out the ashes. The ash is usually warm enough to relight the logs if I leave the door cracked a bit.

Side note: Which also shows the wood is dry enough.

 

[bigealta]

Of course it'll be hot faster. But for a long, cruising burn,.do you need to load it like this?
That'd suck, as apparently you then can't fully use the firebox volume as you need to keep empty spaces... To me that'd be poor design...

Of course it's a trade off.
With the OP having problems getting good burns, this is the way to get good burns.
This is also a way to get away with burning marginally seasoned wood.

The jotuls are definalty not BK long burning stoves or even PE stoves. I'm sure that's why begreen changed out his f400 for his PE t6.

But what we have here is a Jotul, so let's figure out how to make it work.

 

[bigealta]

The only time I light a fire is every three days after I clean out the ashes. The ash is usually warm enough to relight the logs if I leave the door cracked a bit.

Ok so then try it in 3 days.
Top down fires gets the secondary burners hotter faster. That means better faster hot burning.
And air flow is the other key to getting everything going faster as well.

In the jotul, a key is providing a path for the boost air (which comes from under the door) to flow under the load of wood and up the back of the stove so that it can flow from the top of the back of the stove and right under the secondary burners.